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This is what the Laing D4 (DangerDen 12V) Pump sounds like

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There's alsorts you can do to silence any pump by putting it in the correct enclosure with the correct sound damping materials... do a google on DIY & budget soundproofing for home studio enthusiasts. Assess the frequency(s) you want to isolate/remove, and choose your soundproofing material accordingly. I tend to find roofing felt as a base with dampening foam on top does a good job at cutting out a lot of pump noise... sat on 10mm rubber standoffs to eliminate vibrations thru the case...

However, that all adds to the size of the pump and makes it harder to locate within a case...
 
One piece of info that would be handy tho is the make n' model of the mic they were recorded with as each mic will have it's own characteristics and frequency limitations... or a rough idea of diaphragm size on the mic used if it's an inbuilt minidisc recorder or similar...
 
[O-CuK]Marci said:
One piece of info that would be handy tho is the make n' model of the mic they were recorded with as each mic will have it's own characteristics and frequency limitations... or a rough idea of diaphragm size on the mic used if it's an inbuilt minidisc recorder or similar...

iirc it was from a phone headset (came up on OCAU)
 
Cathar, (anyone who cares to take a guess/knows)

since i know you have tested this pump @16V, i have a few questions:

1) what do you think the life expectancy of the pump would be @16V? (this will be on 24/7 folding.)

2) is it worth it to run @16? (it will be in a loop with a cascade ONLY, no rads.)

3) if DD only has 1/2" in/out, (i asked to get 3/4" but they might not have any) will this hurt performance A LOT?

4) will this work to run it @16?:

http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2004040315591574&item=15-1158&catname=electric

thanks for any input.
 
Hey all, I just joinned and was just wondering if by any chance the DD4 pump would be more than efficient for my water cooling setup....

Swiftech MCW5002-PT
Criticool Water Plant Reseviour
Thermochill 120.3 Radiator
1/2 Tygon tubing
Pump - I was looking at the DD4 pump or the Hydor L35
------------------------------------------------------------------------

computer setup...

P4 3.2 HT Northwood
Abit - IC7-G
ATI 9800 Pro
1 gig of OCZ Ram Gold Edition Pc4000
Western Digital 200 gig 8 meg cache 7200 RPM hooked into Serial ATA converter.
Sb live! 2 ZS

All products except the pump are final...so I just want to ask

WIll the DD4 pump be a good pump for my setup?

thanks!
 
both have their ups and downs for instant the dd4 has more head but also dumps alot more heat into the loop so its for u to decide
 
Cathar, those audio files are very interresting and will help me choose my future pump. But my quest is for silence before performance and I was looking at the MCP600 as an alternative. But I was wondering, how the MCP600 would compare to a MCP650 at 7V?
I would be very interrested to hear a sound file of that Laing D4 at 7V (not necessarily with a potentiometer as you would need a very massive one) but by using the "+5V +12V" trick. Do you still have the D4 installed?
 
what exactly does more "head" mean? And just how much heat are we talking about...

I will be cooling just the p4 with the 226 watt pelt from swiftech...and the radiator is the Thermochill 120.3...a goliath of a radiator...I would imagine that the heat from the pump dd4 won't be so bad due to the large radiator right?
 
Wow - talk about digging up an old thread eh?

The newer muffled D4's are substantially weaker than the original loud D4's. In fact, the newer muffled D4's (MCP650) are no longer more powerful than the old Swiftech MCP600 excepting in very low restriction setups.

The newer D4's do still whine to a noticable extent, but it is not as loud as the original pumps. Some people claim that the pumps are quiet but this is, as always, a relative and often subjective thing.

I'll be doing a full comparison of the 12v pumps I have at my disposal as soon as my latest baby arrives. Sorry, I do not have the CSP750 pumps at my disposal, and nor am I particularly interested in them. I have an inherent distrust of anodised aluminium, no matter what a manufacturer says. Anti-corrosion additives also only serve to lower the thermal properties of water (also regardless of what a manufacturer will say), and so I don't personally consider anodised aluminium products with corrosion inhibitor as an acceptable situation - but that's just my opinion - people's are always free to disagree with me.

Here's something I posted at Procooling.com about the new pump I have coming:

Cathar said:
Heard about these about 2yrs back, and have been curious about them ever since. Well my curiosity has gotten the better of me and I've ordered one of these:

March 893-09

brushless2.jpg


Yes - the model number on the picture is a typo.

Very small. 10cm long x 7cm high x 6cm wide.

Being an industry quality pump, has a fully qualified 50,000hrs MTBF with a fully sealed (and submersible) brushless DC motor.

12VDC. 12W peak power consumption in wide-open mode. I would imagine it would draw less when operating against resistance.

According to the sales engineer who has heard both, says it's near silent and quite a deal quieter than the Laing D4.

It has a peak pressure and flow rate very similar to the old Swiftech MCP600, but it's PQ curve is more attractive than the MCP600 with it still offering very good pressure (~2.15mH2O) at 2gpm, unlike the MCP600's ~1.5mH2O.

1c.gif


For moderate to highly restrictive systems, the PQ curve implies that it would offer flow rates that very closely matches the newer muffled Laing D4 revisions at anything up to around 8LPM (~2.1GPM), and still be drawing substantially less power, and due to the separated magnetic armature (like the MCP600's had) be putting less heat into the water as well (I would estimate about half).

The pump comes with either 3/8" or 1/2" OD outlets, and people can fit whatever barb size they want on the inlet. Personally I'll be fitting a 5/8" OD barb on the inlet.

Rated voltage operational range is 7-14v.

Once I get this baby I'll assemble a full 12v pump lineup review which will include the following:

Davies-Craig EBP (Australian automotive cooling system booster pump)
Swiftech MCP600
Swiftech MCP650
Laing D4 (original non-muffled version)
March 893-09-1/2 (1/2" outlet version of 893)

Will assess peak flow, peak pressure, pump power draw, pump power->water heat transfer ratio, and measured flow rates in a full system, along with estimated flow rates for some hypothetical systems.

Only drawback is the price. $125US for a single pump through the local USA reseller I tried. I would imagine that in bulk with the "usual" water-cooling market tight margins, a company might be able to offer it for ~$100US if sourced direct from the manufacturer.
 
glass19 said:
what exactly does more "head" mean? And just how much heat are we talking about...

More "head" means more pumping pressure - resulting in the ability to push more flow through restrictions. Pump "head" (pressure) varies according to the actual flow rate, and a plot of a pump's pressure/flow characteristics is known as a PQ curve. Look to my post above for an example of a PQ curve (for the March 893-09 in this instance).

Heat:

~9W added to the loop for an MCP600 in a "typical" sort of application
~15-16W added to the loop for an MCP650/Laing D4 in a typical application

If you have a "monster" radiator, the extra 6-7W of heat is unlikely to be noticed.
 
martindemon said:
But I was wondering, how the MCP600 would compare to a MCP650 at 7V?
I would be very interrested to hear a sound file of that Laing D4 at 7V (not necessarily with a potentiometer as you would need a very massive one) but by using the "+5V +12V" trick. Do you still have the D4 installed?

An MCP650 @ 7v is about as powerful as an Eheim 1046

I have a lab bench PSU which can supply any voltage from 0-16v and drive up to 25A sustained (30A peak), and this is what I use for my testing purposes.
 
Thanks for the comparison with the Eheim in terms of flow/head :attn: But do the D4 at 7V make more noise than the unmodified Eheim 1048? I speak about unmodified 1048 because I have absolutely no idea how I could make the 1048 quieter... Is it easy? That pump is big but I could accept it if it's the quietest and as reliable as the D4.
 
Hrm...I really starting to question my Hydor L35 choice....i haven't placed the order yet....

Perhaps i'm just over analyising? My original decision is to go with the Hydor L35....but I see hardly anyone talking about it...and when they do speak of the Hydor L35 they always compare it to the DD4 and that the DD4 is a better pump to go with...

WHY?
 
Of the Eheim pumps I've owned (E1048/E1250), I personally liked the 1048 the best for use with water-cooling.

I could not hear the E1048 whatsoever, except when sitting on the hard wooden floor when you could hear a slight rumble from the transmitted vibrations. The D4 @ 7V would still be making more noise than the E1048.

However, you're asking about the Laing D4 @ 7V, and at 7V it is only about as powerful as the Eheim 1046, not the Eheim 1048. The Eheim 1046 is smaller than the E1048, and it is from all accounts even quieter. I have not personally handled one though.

Given a choice between the D4 @ 7v or the Eheim 1046, I'd probably take the E1046 because it's smaller and quieter, with the only drawback being the mains powered thing. There actually is a 12v version of the Eheim 1046 available, but you'll need to import it from Europe and they cost around 75 Euro plus tax and shipping.
 
glass19 said:
Hrm...I really starting to question my Hydor L35 choice....i haven't placed the order yet....

Perhaps i'm just over analyising? My original decision is to go with the Hydor L35....but I see hardly anyone talking about it...and when they do speak of the Hydor L35 they always compare it to the DD4 and that the DD4 is a better pump to go with...

WHY?

Via, Hydor, Mag-Drive, etc, are all okay pumps for their intended application, which is typically sitting inside and aquarium or pond where the cheapness of their build quality doesn't really get noticed, nor is it a big issue if they fail.

The problem with the cheapie AC pumps is long term reliability. Sure there are people who have them who haven't seen an issue in years, then there are the not all that infrequent stories of impellors rattling, shafts breaking, seals leaking, casings cracking, etc.

Going with a super-cheap budget pump means that you are taking a risk. The level of risk is up to you. These pumps may come with warrantee's but that's only a manufacturer cost/failure calculated figure, and has little to do with the actual quality of the pump. The manufacturer doesn't care if the pump stops and your CPU fries itself - they only care that the rate of pump failure returns for the last 3 month period isn't exceeding some set internal limit.

There's a reason why certain manufacturers are associated with quality.
 
okay so the Hydor L35 is a nice pump but it is considered a "budget pump?"

hrm.... that would mean the DD4 is probably a bit better..? you get what you pay for with pumps right? dd4 is around 75 us dollars and the Hydor L35 is about 55 bux or so?

Hrm...perhaps I should go with the DD4 eh?

I'm really not cutting too many corners here with my setup...why stop at the pump...i need to get a really good pump to fit inline with my very good water cooling setup..thus far of course.
 
glass19 said:
okay so the Hydor L35 is a nice pump but it is considered a "budget pump?"

hrm.... that would mean the DD4 is probably a bit better..? you get what you pay for with pumps right? dd4 is around 75 us dollars and the Hydor L35 is about 55 bux or so?

Hrm...perhaps I should go with the DD4 eh?

I'm really not cutting too many corners here with my setup...why stop at the pump...i need to get a really good pump to fit inline with my very good water cooling setup..thus far of course.


Get the DD D4 then it is one of the best pumps on the market. I can't even hear mine over the 120mm fan. The noise of the pump goes down quite a bit after it runs for a few days.
 
the quietest of all the pumps i have tried so far is definately the L35 for anyone interested BUT you must have a properly configured and bled system. it even beat ehiem by just a tad. Note i have been using a lot of hydors so i know how to install and bleed for them which so far i have met none else that could do it as well as i can ( over 112 systems made and more than 80% hydors)
 
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