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Just purchased MACH II. Change gas??
- Thread starter WA2
- Start date
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- Sep 10, 2002
- Location
- FL, USA
there is alot of info on that at XS http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/
what u would have to do is
1.Remove the old R134a from the mach ll
2.then braze shadder vavles on and add i think 5ft of .028 of cap tube(i'm not sure if i'm right so u might want to check on it)
3.Then pull a triple vaccum then fill w/ R404a or R507 and u have a colder mach ll
what u would have to do is
1.Remove the old R134a from the mach ll
2.then braze shadder vavles on and add i think 5ft of .028 of cap tube(i'm not sure if i'm right so u might want to check on it)
3.Then pull a triple vaccum then fill w/ R404a or R507 and u have a colder mach ll
9mmCensor
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You need to have it done professionally (HVAC cert.) as it is illegal to release the current gases, without doing it right.WA2 said:
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2002
---illegal, yet more environmentally friendly than R12 or R22 ^_^...but still illegal none the less... lol... I wonder who really needs to make a Mach II *COLDER*... really... heh, but if you are going to, i am going to have to insist that you have it professionally done; besides, when ur playing with propane (R404A) it's better to be safe than sorry, and have a pro blow him self up instead of you! O_O
- Thread Starter
- #5
My father owns shops where a/c recharging and things are done. This is not what the shops are for, but I know they do refill and check for leaks, if needed. They aways charge me up and also can convert old cars to the new. The only part I will have to see about it the shadder valves
Thanks for the replies guys!
Thanks for the replies guys!
Last edited:
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2002
- Location
- FL, USA
dreammmatt said:
u mixed up ur numbers
R404a is not propane R290 is R404a isn't flamable ether
but R404a is a blend so it can be hard to charge because if u let some gas out because u overchagred it
it will miss up the blend and u will get hotter temps
also since R404a has R134a in it u have to make sure that there is no R134a left in the mach 2 by doing a triple vaccum"
also poe oil holds mositure very well so thats another reason y a good vaccum is needed
also if u go to get it filled u will need to also get teh cap tube lengthened because if i leave it u will get the same temps as ur getting now
- Joined
- Apr 18, 2004
- Location
- Saratoga NY
I am a refrigeration tech (own my own service bizz in NE NY state).
U dont want to just make the cap tube longer, u need to replace it w/ a longer, properly sized new 1.
U can only expose the poly Ester oil to the air for 15 mins than it absorbs to much moisture. U cant get the moisture out of the oil w/ a vacume pump, that is what a filter drier is for (installed in liquid line).
U mush charge the new refrigerats in liquid form. As said above they are blends & azerotropic mixures & the different parts boil off @ differnt temps/presssures. If u charge the sytem useing vapor then the blend wont be correct & therefore the refrigerant wont b as efficeant.
The moment u begin to work on a refrigeration unit (vapor phase change) wheather u remove the refrigerant or not u are breaking the law (unless u r a certified refrigeration tech). The penalty if you are caught & prosicuted is $25000 . There is a $15000 reward for turning someone in that is prosicuted & fined.
@ the very least if you dont do it properly u will have air/moisture in the system. U need special hoses for gauges & a good vacume pump to pull a proper 500 micron vacume. The colder the evap temps the more important it is to have a good vacume. The moisture acts as a catylist w/ the oil, refrigerant, heat & electricity to form acid. The acid attacks the windings on the motor, then u need a new compressor.
W/ the new Polyester (POE) oil is VERY important to not let the condensor get to hot for to long. When POE gets to hot it starts to gum up & turn to like a varnish. So if the condensor fan fails or condensor gets dirty the oil will clog the capillary tube & cooling stops. Useually burns up comp motor to.
Different R-12 replacements (R-134a, MP-39, R-416A, there are many) all have differnt condensing temp pressures & "glides" & are better suited for certain applications (high, med & low temps). For ex MP-39 is better for lower evap temps (0 F to 20 F) than 134a wich is better for a 40 F evap.
R-502 is replaced my the R-404a. There are many alternatives to 502 the the 404a is the most common/best.
Need some help just ask.
U dont want to just make the cap tube longer, u need to replace it w/ a longer, properly sized new 1.
U can only expose the poly Ester oil to the air for 15 mins than it absorbs to much moisture. U cant get the moisture out of the oil w/ a vacume pump, that is what a filter drier is for (installed in liquid line).
U mush charge the new refrigerats in liquid form. As said above they are blends & azerotropic mixures & the different parts boil off @ differnt temps/presssures. If u charge the sytem useing vapor then the blend wont be correct & therefore the refrigerant wont b as efficeant.
The moment u begin to work on a refrigeration unit (vapor phase change) wheather u remove the refrigerant or not u are breaking the law (unless u r a certified refrigeration tech). The penalty if you are caught & prosicuted is $25000 . There is a $15000 reward for turning someone in that is prosicuted & fined.
@ the very least if you dont do it properly u will have air/moisture in the system. U need special hoses for gauges & a good vacume pump to pull a proper 500 micron vacume. The colder the evap temps the more important it is to have a good vacume. The moisture acts as a catylist w/ the oil, refrigerant, heat & electricity to form acid. The acid attacks the windings on the motor, then u need a new compressor.
W/ the new Polyester (POE) oil is VERY important to not let the condensor get to hot for to long. When POE gets to hot it starts to gum up & turn to like a varnish. So if the condensor fan fails or condensor gets dirty the oil will clog the capillary tube & cooling stops. Useually burns up comp motor to.
Different R-12 replacements (R-134a, MP-39, R-416A, there are many) all have differnt condensing temp pressures & "glides" & are better suited for certain applications (high, med & low temps). For ex MP-39 is better for lower evap temps (0 F to 20 F) than 134a wich is better for a 40 F evap.
R-502 is replaced my the R-404a. There are many alternatives to 502 the the 404a is the most common/best.
Need some help just ask.
Last edited:
9mmCensor
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Here is a interesting article on it...
http://overclockers.com/tips1146/
http://overclockers.com/tips1146/
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2002
water_cooler 20 said:
u mixed up ur numbers
R404a isn't flamable ether
but R404a is a blend so it can be hard to charge because if u let some gas out because u overchagred it
it will miss up the blend and u will get hotter temps
lol, thanx for catching that; can u tell it was late when i posted? heh
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- Amsterdam, NL
Anyone ever used ammonia as a refrigerant? Dangerous as hell, but if someone is willing to have a liter of propane next to their computer, I can't suppose this is beyond the realm of the crazy.
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- I don't know why, but...Deleware
...
msg chilly1 over at xtreme. Tell him I sent you (no discount or anything hehe) He is a great guy, and does a large portion of the regassing over there. You could also have him do some other mods like stick on a baker block, and fan mods and get your temps even better. His prices are very reasonable, and his quality is fantastic.
edit-> well, that's what you get for not reading the whole thread...if you are having any problems getting questions answere you could check at xtreme, and one of their cooling gods will get you straightened out.
also, you I have heard many people say that you might not have to add cap tube, or replace it, but pinching it should work if you knw what you are doing. If you do end up regassing yourself, make sure you hook it up to your pc and test it under load. If you don't get the charge just right you could have great temps without a load, but when the comp is on your temps could fly through the roof.
msg chilly1 over at xtreme. Tell him I sent you
(no discount or anything hehe) He is a great guy, and does a large portion of the regassing over there. You could also have him do some other mods like stick on a baker block, and fan mods and get your temps even better. His prices are very reasonable, and his quality is fantastic.edit-> well, that's what you get for not reading the whole thread...if you are having any problems getting questions answere you could check at xtreme, and one of their cooling gods will get you straightened out.
also, you I have heard many people say that you might not have to add cap tube, or replace it, but pinching it should work if you knw what you are doing. If you do end up regassing yourself, make sure you hook it up to your pc and test it under load. If you don't get the charge just right you could have great temps without a load, but when the comp is on your temps could fly through the roof.
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- Sep 10, 2002
- Location
- FL, USA
here is a guide that sould help
http://www.vr-zone.com/?i=716&s=1
also pinching might work
also the reason no one just adds a new cap tube is because its a real pain u have to take apart all the suction line inslation and then take apart the whole evap to get teh old cap tube out so its easier to just add more or pinch it
http://www.vr-zone.com/?i=716&s=1
also pinching might work
also the reason no one just adds a new cap tube is because its a real pain u have to take apart all the suction line inslation and then take apart the whole evap to get teh old cap tube out so its easier to just add more or pinch it
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2001
- Location
- Roanoke, VA
You should just do what I did. I was sick of reading everything and trying to figure it out so I took (and still am taking) HVAC/R classes. I just recently got EPA certified as a Universal technician, and plan to continue through all four semesters.
I have a much better understanding of refrigerant systems now, and can build my own custom unit. I will probably use R-134a since it comes it CAN-O-AIR hehe, but then again, now that I'm certified I can purchase any refrigerants so I might just get something that can obtain cooler temperatures. Anyway good luck with whatever you decide to do!
I have a much better understanding of refrigerant systems now, and can build my own custom unit. I will probably use R-134a since it comes it CAN-O-AIR hehe, but then again, now that I'm certified I can purchase any refrigerants
so I might just get something that can obtain cooler temperatures. Anyway good luck with whatever you decide to do! 
soundfx4 said:You should just do what I did. I was sick of reading everything and trying to figure it out so I took (and still am taking) HVAC/R classes. I just recently got EPA certified as a Universal technician, and plan to continue through all four semesters.
I have a much better understanding of refrigerant systems now, and can build my own custom unit. I will probably use R-134a since it comes it CAN-O-AIR hehe, but then again, now that I'm certified I can purchase any refrigerants
how long has it taken you to get thru these classes? (1993) lol
jk
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- Feb 2, 2001
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- Roanoke, VA
rhino56 said:
hahah lol
yep, it's been a while, been working at it since I was 9 years old 
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- Los Angeles, Palo Alto, Lake Tahoe
I regassed my mach I and mach II unit, dropped temps considerably, I actually kept my cap tube stock, regassed it with R507 (very similiar to R404 , just has a slower dissapation curve), and upgraded the fans to YS tech fans, it ran awesome for months. Then i got bored and asked for some help from the guys over at xtremesystem, and ended up lengthening my cap tube about 10", which made itthe slightest difference colder.
