5k$ Workstation - looking for all possible advices

[caroline_]

Hi,
I am looking for all possible advice about building workstation. This is my first time so I am very scared. Some parts are pre-selected, for some I need your recommendation.

Budget: About 5k$
Purpose: VR Game Development, Unreal Engine, Maya, 3Ds Max,Blender, Zbrush, Substance Painter, Designer, B2M,and other 3d software, VR Gaming, Rendering, Photoshop, InDesign. Few times, there will be a time that PC will be left for few days to bake a game in Unreal Engine. Maybe even a week.
Priority: flawless performance and stability. I don't care about looks.

CPU -I am giving my preference to i9 7940x. I know that for rendering Xeon is recommended, but Rendering is not the main task for this workstation. Of course, if you have another point of view and strong arguments, do not hesitate to convince me

GPU - GTX 1080 Ti. I am pretty sure, that I don't want Quadro. But again - let's talk about it, if you are sure that I should get Quadro, please let me know.

MOBO: Asus ROG RAMPAGE VI EXTREME, but I am open to other propositions.

RAM - Not specified, but I need fast 32GB RAM with a possibility of expanding in 2 years.

SSD - Not specified. For now, Fast 500-750 GB will be enough.

HDD - Not specified.For now, Fast 3TB will be enough.

Cooling - I will go forwater CPU cooling, maybe GPU as well. I want my parts to be cool and longstanding. I was thinking about NZXT Kraken X62 v.2 for CPU

Case -I prefer lightweight midtower, because this PC will have to travel few times in a year on game events, but again: If you think it's a bad idea, please let me know. First choice: Lian Li PC-J60WX

Power -Not specified, but I am considering SLI in the future.


Thank you for any advices

 

[bob4933]

Couple things
1) watercooling = downtime. You do not want watercooling in this budget range; the water cooling systems that servers and workstations use on "serious machines" is not what you get off the shelf. High end air cooling will keep your temps nice and cool, and be more reliable in the long run.
2) volta architecture is here and main cards are just around the corner.

 

[Janus67]

As bob said, I wouldn't bother with watercooling. There is much more that could go wrong with a watercooler than just getting a nice Noctua fan (or Phanteks) or other nice tower cooler. They will keep your temps where they need to be, and I wouldn't expect you to be overclocking for risk of any stability issues while rendering.

I would look into benchmarks comparing rendering between the 1080ti and a quadro card. The quadro will cost more (of course) but may very likely provider much better rendering speeds.

The motherboard is hugely overkill, I honestly don't see a reason to buy that if you aren't going to be benchmarking with LN2.

RAM is fine

Case looks fine

For power, get a nice solid 800W or if you want overkill 1000W EVGA or Corsair PSU (for room for SLI, although even with that you would likely not come close to either of those numbers)

 

[EarthDog]

Why not a Threadripper build? If your software uses a lot of cores, AMD Threadripper has that hands down.

 

[Alaric]

ED beat me to it. Those requirements seem made for a big Threadripper. Use the money saved towards that Quadro.

 

[caroline_]

1) water cooling = downtime. You do not want watercooling in this budget range; the water cooling systems that servers and workstations use on "serious machines" is not what you get off the shelf. High-end air cooling will keep your temps nice and cool, and be more reliable in the long run.

Even closed system, like this - NZXT Kraken X62 v.2 ? Maybe I named it wrongly...

2) volta architecture is here and main cards are just around the corner.

Oh, yeah that's another issue Do you think it's worth to wait, until then? How long you think we should wait?

I would look into benchmarks comparing rendering between the 1080ti and a Quadro card. The Quadro will cost more (of course) but may very likely provider much better rendering speeds.

I am not a huge fan of SLI either. But, I like to have a backup for the future, I want this PC to be for 5-7 years. Maybe until that time, software will make support for it.

Why not a Threadripper build? If your software uses a lot of cores, AMD Threadripper has that hands down.

I found somewhere that AMD's cores are not equal to those in Intel, and software that I am using ( except rendering of course) prefer to have less, but powerful cores. Maybe you know, if that is true?

Use the money saved towards that Quadro.

Well, here is my problem with Quadro: everybody keeps saying to me, that Quadro is better for graphic designer, but if it comes to arguments, they can't say any or those they bring up are like "better drivers" "smoothing lines in Maya" I think it's not worth that money. I prefer to buy overkill motherboard to have options in future. But again, if I am wrong please tell me



From another hand, how long you think until Titan V will get cheaper?


Thank you for all your time!

 

[Lochekey]

You may want to check the whitelist for the programs you run and see what gpu can be used for hardware acceleration with those programs. I use mostly CAD software instead of graphic design software but some of the programs I use do not allow for gpu hardware acceleration if you are using a consumer grade card. The other reason that quadros will sometimes do better is the compute units in them are not crippled, this is assuming your program can take advantage of that.


As for the Titan V, this will not be coming down in price anytime soon.


Is this system for a home hobby/amateur work or is this a money making venture where your livelihood is on the line with this system?

 

[Woomack]

I don't know what about used software but friend works with graphics software ( mainly rendering, TV commercials etc ) and they moved to AMD in last months because of price/performance factor. They actually got couple of 8 core Ryzens before TR premiere and are really happy about how they work. So I guess that some guys in this thread have good questions about for what it will be used and on what level. If it's going to be professional work and long hours of rendering then TR can be better if we talk about price/performance.

Quadro in general is the same as GeForce line. However Nvidia cares to provide dedicated drivers and software for graphics software what let to run faster on Quadro cards. Couple of years ago you could simply flash GF with Quadro BIOS and card was faster in dedicated soft. Now Quadro family is a bit different yet still use current generation GPUs. There is a bit different memory specification and some other things. I'm not sure if they are really worth the price over top GF models. Friends were using GF1070/1080 for work without issues and I mean like professional work. I guess all depends in what scale is this work so again questions which were already asked.

 

[caddi daddi]

threadripper on this build.
if you want the gpu to last you 5 years or you need the features, and you will due to the amount of memory on a 1080.
I can get away with rendering on a pair of 1080's at home because I can keep the memory usage below what the cards have.

 

[bob4933]

Yes even AIO's are not as reliable as high end air. For a system like this, I would have an external temp sensor placed for quick reference at any time.

Your reticence on the AMD front is kind of paradoxical to your desire for an i9x processor then. If it favors low core counts and higher speeds; you're better off getting a lower core count intel, saving yourself hundreds to a thousand dollars to be quite frank. The 8700k is a beast processor for instance; as well the x299 is a dead socket I believe (to lazy to verify, correct me if Im wrong). If core count DOES matter, then threadripper is the way to go honestly. TR doesn't have THAT MUCH off i9 ipc.

1950x = 900$ and is 97%-92% effective in IPC tasks. Has upgrade path available.
7940x = 1400$ and is 88%-90% effective in multithreaded applications. Closed upgrade path

So you spend more to get 3-8% gains on individual performance metrics, but lose hard in multi threaded applications. I understand rendering will not be the "main focus" here; but when it is, the time saved will be enormous in the long run I would imagine.

Your call, but threadripper is the right way to go here in my opinion.

edit: Even the lofty 7960x barely beats out the 1950x

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/09/intel-core-i9-7960x-review/2/

 

[custom90gt]

While I do agree that TR is a better value, I just wanted to step in and say that x299 is not a dead socket. The z370 chipset that the 8700k works in is a dead end after this generation of CPUs.

Like was mentioned earlier, look for specific benchmarks for the software you use and make your decision based on that.

 

[EarthDog]

A lot of paranoia about water cooling...

It really is just as simple as setting a threshold in the BIOS to prevent problems. That said, the CPU itself has failsafes and will start to throttle at 105C and shutdown to protect itself. You have to work really hard to kill a CPU from high temps these days.

 

[JrClocker]

I agree with ED...AIOs are high reliability. More moving parts than a heatsink and a fan, but still reliable. As he said, you can set thresholds in BIOS to prevent the CPU from overheating...and the CPU will protect itself too.

I run a Corsair H80iv2 to cool my 140 W TDP CPU. It's an AIO with a thick 120 mm radiator.

I have it mounted in the front of my case as intake with 2 fans in push/pull. Even though it's "only" a 120 mm radiator, my overclocked 5820K has never seen above 75 C (with 29 C ambient) at full load being stressed hard. This thick radiator AIO keeps the CPU cooler than the 280 mm Corsair H110i I had previously.

 

[caroline_]

Thank you for all your answers, I really appreciate them. Could you please advice me, what is the best RAM frequency for me?

Also, what is the best solution - Buy 4x8 now and change it later for 4x16 or buy 2x16 now and buy another 2x16 later?

I am really confused in RAM world

 

[custom90gt]

Thank you for all your answers, I really appreciate them. Could you please advice me, what is the best RAM frequency for me?

I mean that's variable too. I know some video transcoding takes advantage of fast ram, but I'm not sure about your software. It seems that 3200 is the best bang for the buck.

 

[Suppressor1137]

4x8 . ram is expected to drop in price in 2018. Also technological advances may introduce 32 gb modules or cheaper 16 gig modules.

 

[Daleon]

Would go 2x16 now and add 2x16 later.

3200 CAS14 is pretty much top notch. Haven't seen many benchs using Intel where faster ram will help very much in pretty much anything. With TR trying to get anything faster is much more difficult especially in large capacities.

Base your AIO cooler on the case you get it will determine what size radiator you can use. I have the Kraken x62, its fine but the hoses coming out of the side can push to much up against the ram causing you to have to rotate the block around. I haven't seen that issue with Corsair blocks.

Are you US based? By your choice of case I would think not.

 

[caroline_]

I also heard that Skylake-X works best with DDR4-2666 1.2 volt ram, and anything faster would require overclocking to achieve rated speed. Is it true?

Are you US based? By your choice of case I would think not.

Unfortunately, nope. You guys have so better prices...

 

[custom90gt]

I also heard that Skylake-X works best with DDR4-2666 1.2 volt ram, and anything faster would require overclocking to achieve rated speed. Is it true?



Unfortunately, nope. You guys have so better prices...

I have never heard about 2666 on skylake-x. It's worked fine for me with XPM at 3200 cas 14. It works well on my buddy's system with XPM 3733, no overclocking required.

 

[bob4933]

A lot of paranoia about water cooling...

It really is just as simple as setting a threshold in the BIOS to prevent problems. That said, the CPU itself has failsafes and will start to throttle at 105C and shutdown to protect itself. You have to work really hard to kill a CPU from high temps these days.

Look at it from a business side. Every so often you must tear down and clean the whole system if he decides to go full loop. AIO's for cpu give negligible performance gains over a high end air cooler at much more cost (%). Not saying watercooling is inherently unreliable, its just impractical for this application. If something DOES go wrong, it'll be much harder to detect, and downtime will be much longer.

While I do agree that TR is a better value, I just wanted to step in and say that x299 is not a dead socket. The z370 chipset that the 8700k works in is a dead end after this generation of CPUs.

Like was mentioned earlier, look for specific benchmarks for the software you use and make your decision based on that.

Thanks for clarifying.