AMD Zen Will Compete Favorably with Intel

[Hardin]

For me I didn't care that the Phenoms were poor overclockers. I bought a new system with my own for the first time. I was so proud. It had a phenom with the tlb errata correction and 2 4850s in crossfire! It was awesome! And then I came home one day and it never turned on again .

 

[petteyg359]

http://www.channelpro.co.uk/advice/9797/amd-zen-a-serious-challenge-to-intel-6

TLDR : "appears to provide double the ‘Orochi’ score in Cinebench multi-threaded compute tests. Summit Ridge processors include AMD Zen CPUs and Orochi is the codename for the AMD FX 8350 CPU." -> 8350 has 8 cores, the Zen used has 16, isn't it supposed to double NOT COUNTING higher IPC ?

1. Nowhere in that "article" is there anything even vaguely mentioning an actual core count for the Cinebench claim, so it might as well say nothing at all, and your 8 core vs 16 core claim is pulled out of nowhere.
2. AFAIK AMD has been saying the first desktop release will be 8c/16t. If each additional SMT thread is 40% of a core only dealing with one thread (which seems close to actual numbers available from Google for Intel HT), 1.4 (40% IPC) * 1.4 (40% SMT) is pretty close to 2.0.

 

[Kenrou]

1. Nowhere in that "article" is there anything even vaguely mentioning an actual core count for the Cinebench claim, so it might as well say nothing at all.

"Last week a slide (above) came to light during an AMD investor meeting that compares performance between AMD’s Zen CPUs and earlier generation processors from the chipmaker. It shows the ‘Summit’ processor for high end desktops appears to provide double the ‘Orochi’ score in Cinebench multi-threaded compute tests. Summit Ridge processors include AMD Zen CPUs and Orochi is the codename for the AMD FX 8350 CPU." -> take it up with AMD, not the reviewers fault they don't disclose everything.

 

[ShrimpBrime]

for me the biggest thing is AMD, what to me seems like it is finally adding SMT to their cpus. if they even get close to say gen 3 or 4 i's a cheap 8 core +smt @ 3.6-3.8ghz should make a pretty nice Rosetta box.

It's CMT actually. Cluster-based multi-threading. Intel uses SMT which is simultaneous multi threading.

Check this diagram out. AMD claims CMT to be better than SMT with 80% throughput gains.

 

[petteyg359]

It's CMT actually. Cluster-based multi-threading. Intel uses SMT which is simultaneous multi threading.

Check this diagram out. AMD claims CMT to be better than SMT with 80% throughput gains.

View attachment 179811

No, Zen is SMT. Bulldozer etc. were CMT.

 

[ATMINSIDE]

And admins, please fix the mobile skin that automatically deletes a post on any attempt to edit it.

We have not seen this issue from any other users.

Please start a thread in the Mod Hotline and/or Forum Feedback section about this issue so we can address it properly.
Including screenshots and some real details will help us help you.

 

[Evilsizer]

so i tried to edit my post, but it had it selected as delete post... when trying to select the area to put reason for edit, it would show the button for delete post getting selected even though i was tring to do something different. it seemed not matter where i hit on the screen it was hitting the button for delete post. now my post has been deleted that he quoted me on, on his post you responded too. dont use tap talk, it the mobile browser that comes on my samsung S6 by default, connected to the site for the mobile version. tbh i cant stand the mobile version and using opera 99.999% of the time and use the standard website option. i dont know how to take a picture of the screen either nor could i to try to show how it was happening, would need a video on that one.

 

[EarthDog]

Thanks for the detials.

This isnt the feedback section though. Please post there as to not drag this thread off topic.

 

[Helgaiden]

Cant wait for the benchmarks.

 

[gkline]

Shrimpbrime, that slide is from 2005 NOT 2016. Clearly showing AMD's belief that Bulldozer was superior at the time and we all know how that turned out!

ZEN is hopefully a different animal.

 

[exactopposite]

I've been disappointed over and over again by the hype of the next big thing from AMD. I hope they pull this off, but I can't help but be skeptical.

 

[petteyg359]

Shrimpbrime, that slide is from 2005 NOT 2016. Clearly showing AMD's belief that Bulldozer was superior at the time and we all know how that turned out!

ZEN is hopefully a different animal.

Technically, CMT is superior. Where a 4c/8t Intel CPU is sharing every resource, the 4 "module"/8t AMD CPU was mostly just sharing the FPU. I have no idea where they went wrong since I'll happily stick on the software engineering side and leave the magic smoke to them, but given patent cross-licensing, I guess it's easier to just start over with what Intel already developed than try to fix CMT when the biggest operating system around took forever to release a scheduler fix for the first version.

 

[cdawall]

Technically, CMT is superior. Where a 4c/8t Intel CPU is sharing every resource, the 4 "module"/8t AMD CPU was mostly just sharing the FPU. I have no idea where they went wrong since I'll happily stick on the software engineering side and leave the magic smoke to them, but given patent cross-licensing, I guess it's easier to just start over with what Intel already developed than try to fix CMT when the biggest operating system around took forever to release a scheduler fix for the first version.

Pipeline length/style. Same reason pentium 4 sucked, lack of an L3 cache and horrible memory bandwidth didn't help, but overall it was the pipleline, hence why it excelled in the same areas P4 did (clockspeed and encoding).

 

[ShrimpBrime]

Shrimpbrime, that slide is from 2005 NOT 2016. Clearly showing AMD's belief that Bulldozer was superior at the time and we all know how that turned out!

ZEN is hopefully a different animal.

I did kinda get some roads crossed.

But ZEN will feature both SMT and CMT.

So with clusters pipelines and simultaneous computing with some shared resources.

I hope the pipelines are good like the current FX chips actually. That will give the CPU a higher core clock. Bundled with HBM and some FPU for each core also.

THEN, we look a little deeper into the future and find what we see in the past with stepping revisions of these chips. May net another 5-10% epeen increase is possible. Kinda like 8150 vs 8350.

The APU line will be very interesting with a really decent sized GPU. We might even see CPU and ARM on the same silicon as well.

 

[petteyg359]

I did kinda get some roads crossed.

But ZEN will feature both SMT and CMT.

Says who? The only possible reference I can find is a poorly worded sentence in a Register article from March 2015 that doesn't actually say that.

 

[ShrimpBrime]

You are correct. This information was "leaked" about a year ago.

Each core will have 512KB of L2 cache and 4 cores will share 8MB worth of L3 cache. The processor will be divided into eight clusters of 4 cores each for a net total of 32 cores.

Right there in green. 8 clusters = CMT design with shared L2 and L3 cache just like the FX chips! WOW!

 

[petteyg359]

You are correct. This information was "leaked" about a year ago.



Right there in green. 8 clusters = CMT design with shared L2 and L3 cache just like the FX chips! WOW!

Still doesn't sound like CMT to me. More like SMP packed onto a single chip. AFAIK CMT implies shared processing resources, e.g. FPU, registers, etc. Shared cache has been on every multi-core CPU ever.

 

[cdawall]

Still doesn't sound like CMT to me. More like SMP packed onto a single chip.

Yea it slides into the same design as everything else AMD does. It is modular not CMT?

 

[Dolk]

CMT is only superior because Intel says so. Who do you think supplies most of the software libraries for development on x86 platforms?

If AMD had made a large abundance for a need in the SMT world, they would have done the same that Intel is currently doing.

No ISA is superior to the other unless compared in the environment it was designed for.

 

[ShrimpBrime]

The nice thing about cluster based mutli-threading is the use of x86 cores (no software needed) actual hardware.

So if we where to look at the FX-8 core processor and call it a quad with CMT vs and 8 core cpu, it would be seen as a quad with Multi-threading capability. But since it uses actual hardware cores, it's an 8 core cpu. Which is interesting for the design. It's a quad/octo threader. One thread does not gain more over another while active. Certain boards and bios require the proper settings to turn off every other core in each cluster while no gains are to be had.

Keeps the design, adds 8 more cores and a better architectural layout. Implements SMT and wait for ZEN.