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Clear Tubing going Cloudy.

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From your experience, What you think contributes to tubing clouding the most?


  • Total voters
    23
  • Poll closed .
I have 3 year old primochill tubing, blue, has been in my loop for 2.7 years with just pt nuke, ie copper sulphate and distilled water, and still crystal clear blue, no plasticizer at all. For past few months running distilled with anticorrosion just to see if it craps up my block more than distilled/pt nuke.

I think it is just the particular batch of tubing, how much plasticizer was added. Primochill from 3 years ago, no one was getting plasticizer, and more recently it is common with primochill. Glad I still have another 10 feet of 3 year old stuff when I need it.
 
I'm going to order some Dead-water as a friend of mine explained to me he's been using it and has not encountered the cloudy white film. It's been 4 months now and his tubing is clear as day-1. I already have some new tubing (Home Depot Crap), but i'm going to order some MasterKleer. Hopefully with the dead-water I won't get the white cloud of doom, lol.


I use dead water too.
my PrimoChill went cloudy in -1- week...

in fact, that's part of my motivation to do all this research. lol.
if your friends stayed clear, I would like to add his data to the stockpile.
What was his brand of tubing? what coolant? any additives besides DeadWater?


I have 3 year old primochill tubing, blue, has been in my loop for 2.7 years with just pt nuke, ie copper sulphate and distilled water, and still crystal clear blue, no plasticizer at all. For past few months running distilled with anticorrosion just to see if it craps up my block more than distilled/pt nuke.

I think it is just the particular batch of tubing, how much plasticizer was added. Primochill from 3 years ago, no one was getting plasticizer, and more recently it is common with primochill. Glad I still have another 10 feet of 3 year old stuff when I need it.

I believe it is a Function of two things.

Plastizier + Ingredient = accelerated Cloudiness.

I am trying to isolate what Ingredient it can be.. and right now, CuSO4 is a potential candidate.
Old loops with less Plasticizers didn't go cloudy cause even with CuSO4, no Plastizicer = OK.
However, it would appear nearly ALL tubing has plastizicer these days... so it is a 'matter of time', before it turns cloudy...

I would accept turning cloudy in 6 mth mate..
but 1 week.. was too short for me. :)
 
I have old PC tubing, maybe a China factory is cutting corners. And Primo isn't talking. And I'm sure they just remarket stuff form a major company, they are small, not like tygon that has FULL control over their manufacturing systems.

Dunno. My old tubing is fine, I have enough left for another few years. Good luck, good job Blue Zero, your on the ball.
 
Hmmmm well it seems people are really having mixed results.Some people have used ptnuke/biocide with success. Most have not.

I mean as blue has said I wouldn't mind a few months before my tubing started to cloud. But 1 week? No thanks. Now this is pushing me towards opaque tubing just to avoid it. There are only so many times you can replace your tubing in a year ;). From the sounds of it almost all clear tubing ( baring the stuff that was produced years ago) is producing the same result.

The issue for me is that I'm going for a look in my case that my hose looks clear in normal light but then seethrough blue under uv light. Are there any other brands that do clear uv blue tubing apart from masterkleer that are less likely to cloud ( I haven't been able to find any as yet)

The problem is the whole look of my build will be fooked with if I change my tubing to a solid uv colour. Grrrr

Would it be worth putting up a poll so we could get proper stats?
 
I think a poll here will be great.. this is an area where the more data we collect, the more trends we might observe.

i am moving to masterkleer UV clear tubes myself too.

and in my next loop, I will only use Silver.
when only a Metal is added, the solution should be more pH neutral than adding CuSO4..
and hopefully that will keep the tubes clear 'longer'.

I be doing that upgrade this weekend, will log everything. :)
 
I think a poll here will be great.. this is an area where the more data we collect, the more trends we might observe.

i am moving to masterkleer UV clear tubes myself too.

and in my next loop, I will only use Silver.
when only a Metal is added, the solution should be more pH neutral than adding CuSO4..
and hopefully that will keep the tubes clear 'longer'.

I be doing that upgrade this weekend, will log everything. :)

Please do will allow me to make a good decision when i rip apart my loop in a few weeks. Just need to get on getting some distilled and silver kill coil

On that note. Anyone got any suggestions for just killcoil? Was looking at the mayhem one. I'm a little confused though, dose each thing only come with one kill coil? In which case i would have to get around 4 in order to sufficiently protect my loop?
 
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If anyone with cloudy tubing feels up to it, they can send a sample of their coolant to me to check the pH of the fluid on their cooling system fluid. Maybe there is some relation to pH and the cloudiness of the tubing, along with the biocide in the system. I will be tearing down the loop in my main rig when I get in from work and the res looks to be clouded up with plasticizer from when I did my last loop rebuild. On the last rebuild, I changed out some tubing with some black Primochill Pro LRT and left a short piece of silver Tygon in the loop, along with adding some PTNuke-PHN to the fluid. The water used was straight distilled on the last rebuild. I will be checking pH of this loop too.

The accuracy resolution of my Acorn series pH6 is .01, so it should show any trends on the pH and cloudiness of tubing, if it has anything to do with plastizer leaching.
 
I'll send you a sample of my current fluid Jim. Would be awsome to find out exactly what's causing the "cloudy film of doom" lol. I can also send you a sample piece of the cloudy tubing. Maybe I should hold off on swapping fluids/tubing until the data is all collected.
 
If anyone with cloudy tubing feels up to it, they can send a sample of their coolant to me to check the pH of the fluid on their cooling system fluid. Maybe there is some relation to pH and the cloudiness of the tubing, along with the biocide in the system. I will be tearing down the loop in my main rig when I get in from work and the res looks to be clouded up with plasticizer from when I did my last loop rebuild. On the last rebuild, I changed out some tubing with some black Primochill Pro LRT and left a short piece of silver Tygon in the loop, along with adding some PTNuke-PHN to the fluid. The water used was straight distilled on the last rebuild. I will be checking pH of this loop too.

The accuracy resolution of my Acorn series pH6 is .01, so it should show any trends on the pH and cloudiness of tubing, if it has anything to do with plastizer leaching.

If you could get a sample of the tubing with it that would be even better, but there's gotta at least be a picture to determine degrees of cloudiness.
 
i would send some of mine but it seems a little pointless as im in the UK. But yes i shall be holding off tearing apart my loop till we have more results. Maybe we can inform some of these companies as to the result. Should really be warnings on their products as there are in all intensive purposes defective.

At least they should advice people to use silver kill coil to slow the rate of clouding ( that is on the assumption that biocide is the issue!)

m0r7if3r could we start a poll/sticky about this in order to get some raw data. Would be immensely helpful. ( would be great considering the amount of people who filter through this forum )?
 
If you all can come up with a consensus on the options and questions of the poll, I will add one to this thread.

And Dino, that would be nice if you can send some fluid my way to check pH on, as well as a smallish piece of tubing too. That will give me yet another sample to compare to my loop that has the res clouded up. I can also check the pH in my other loops too, which don't have as much time on them but I also don't see any signs of plasticizer leaching in either.

xander89, it would cost you too much money to send a sample to me from the UK, so I didn't expect you to even think of doing so. :)
 
Question and Options for the Polls:

From your experience, What you think contributes to tubing clouding the most?

- Poor Brand/Patch of tubings
- Too much CuSO4
- Silver Coil
- Mixture of biocides
- pH of the water
- Coolant (be it water or mixture)
- Others (do explain your experience)

how's that?
 
Should we also look into how much heat is produced within the loop? Maybe it might be one of the ingredients that's causing the loop to cloud with CuSO4 or other biocides.
 
I think it should be simpler than that something like:

What coolant have you used that has caused clouding.

Distilled water + Mayhem Biocide
Distilled water + Silver Kill Coil
Distilled water + PT Nuke
Distilled water + Silver Kill Coil&Mayhem Biocide
Dionised water + Mayhem Biocide
Dionised water + Silver Kill Coil
Dionised water + PT Nuke
Dionised water + Silver Kill Coil&Mayhem Biocide

+ any other options you think might be appropriate.

Then Ask in a second poll

What Make of tubing Have you used

Primochill
Masterkleer
( etc? cant member all the makes)

Also put in another section with whether or not the tubing was clear or opaque.

Temp of water ( so 20-40 c going up in increments of 2.5 c)

PH of water ( if applicable)

That will allow up to have five bits of data. One what coolants people are running with, two make of tubing, three what kinds of tubing, PH, and Temp

Otherwise blue we will just get peoples opinions on what they think is cause the problem. So its guesswork. Rather this will allow us to have raw data that will give us answers (or maybe not!)
 
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I think the way to go is to just poll what type of tubing people are using and then use the numbers that bz5 already gathered to see if the distributions are about the same or if some brands of tubing have higher percentage of clouding.
 
i think a few seperate polls ( the five suggested above will give us the data needed.) and will actually show us the most likely cause of clouding. Be it temp, PH make up of coolant, make, or type.

If thats possible
 
Since bluezero5 was the thread starter, I used his choices for the poll, but with a slight twist. I also set the poll to allow multiple choices and also the way you vote will be public. :D That way we can see which way our members are thinking and the multiple choice setting is used in case you think it's a combination of problems leading to cloudy tubing.

So vote away everyone. :thup:
 
I think you guys are over/under thinking it.

NO ONE has YET to comment on ozonated water; ok then.

if it was something like "i'm a dork and used 4 drops of PTnuke instead of 1" then I think it would b quite obvious WHY clear tubing is doing this. You're NOT going to find the cause by simply compairing what people used for parts; the issue is much more complex, imho. Looking in to PH and TDS PPM i think is going to be most beneficial. If this was as simple as collecting a few details of the loop to diagnose the cause, it wouldn't be this BIG of a problem. Primo has essential put all blame on the user; there product is perfect. I think the true moral of the story is to NOT USE CLEAR TUBING at ALL.

My loop water: PH 6.4; TDS PPM 122; ms/cm .17

(meter used Hanna 9813-6; calibrated last night at 7.01ph @ 25c) ((I've had this meter several years, the probe is about one year old; the meter n probe have kept PERFECT calibration throughout this past year.))

here is how my crappy tubing looks; i got yellowing not clouding. http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=707160
 
ok i just feel its going to become rather subjective if we just ask what people think it is. As i wont be able to say what i think it is. I just know mine has clouded with a certain setup.
 
Hi, hope this helps. I mixed brands of tubing in the summer 2010 to experiment. Tygon 3603 was in the fill-line to the reservoir and also the drain line. The rest of the single loop was Masterkleer because of the influence on me by Spawn-Inc who had used MK successfully for years with distilled & PT Nuke. My coolant was distilled with a silver coil as biocide. I never used PT Nuke or any biocide but silver. Tygon 3603 clouded around 6 months. Instead of changing coolant, I observed. Around 10 to 11 months when gray-blue chunks were floating from the Tygon 3603 around my silver coil, my curiosity was sated about Tygon 3603. But under the same conditions, the MK was clear. I drained the loop, did not think to test pH, but started a thread with photos here.

My curiosity about durability of MK grew so I left the old Masterkleer on and put in a new MK drain tube to act as a control. I again used a Tygon 3603 fill-tube to see if the fill-site won't migrate after clouding because it doesn't stay wet long (seems true). I use no coil now but instead two .999 silver barbs plus two .999 compressions as my only biocide. After 17 months of use the MK had gotten cloudy but the interesting thing was the color. Not sure why the MK turned tan while Tygon was gray-blue. Around 19 months (end of January 2012), there started a brown staining of my reservoir. That was as long as I was going to leave the MK in but wanted to watch the res longer (it was ruined anyway). So I only drained coolant and swapped tubing to fresh MK again not thinking to test pH. The coolant was clear without chunks. I ordered a new reservoir and tubing and did some shopping for a filtration cleaning system.

In spite of the new MK tubing remaining clear between the last weekend of January 2012 and early April, my reservoir continued to smear. In early April I had had enough and did a tear-down to flush the system and open the CPU block. That thread with pictures is here. I finally got two Aquarium pH testing kits but the new coolant was only a little over 2 months old when tested. The coolant pH was 7, my tap water was 7, and two different batches of distilled that were fresh were 6.

At the full tear-down, I flushed all components (rads & pumps too) with the Pond Pump/Water-filter method (5 micron) described by Lazy Man of West Coast Mods on Martin210's website but could never trap any chunks of plasticizer like with the Tygon. The new Primochill tubing and reservoir placed last month have been in place less than 2 months but there is no brown staining in the new reservoir and all tubing is clear.

This is my first time trying Primochill Primoflex LRT so I hope it is the magic brand. I will put in the poll that I thought it was bad batches because I see no pattern yet. I would have checked a "I don't know" box had it been there.

What I think I learned is if someone complains of cloudy tubing, they should probably drain the coolant and consider replacing tubing...or not complain if there is permanent staining of clear acrylic. My res was only $25 so it's easy to "sacrifice" one now and then in the name of science (or curiosity).

Otherwise, my machine is on 24/7 and overclocked. Temps have always been fine and it is always stable. Can't think of anything else to add. Happy to answer any questions. Thanks for doing this. Good luck. :)
 
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