For all you watercooling nuts out there - hard data

[ac3wooddog]

cool !

cool!

 

[RACEOMATIC]

Thanks for doing all that hard work for us.

 

[Tiger]

here is useful graph of viscosities of antifreezes at various temps;
Freezium is a European product which is not available in the USA but if you are interested in it then their site link is here

 

[MrRealityman1]

don't they use ammonia to cool ice rinks and bobsled tracks?

 

[res0r9lm]

I don't know but I do know they use it for industrial refrigration. it's not the stuff you get in bottle to clean with that stuff is only just a few percent while the stuff your talking about is pure very bad news if there is a leak.

 

[Soren]

great sticky.

I just wanted to thank all who put work into this!

on me

 

[Pla]

Great data in one place!

I have a few comments.
1) The air is mostly Nitrogen (N2) - about 80% (not sure for the exact percentage), and only 16% Oxigen (O2). So you should check the properies of N instead of O2.
2) About the Gold. As you notice from your table it is third compared by heat conductivity. So if you are looking for good heat transfer by solids, heat conductivity is what matters the most and not heat capacity. Heat capacity matters mostly for liquids becase of the way they are used for heat transfer.
(The liquid collects energy/heat by increasing its own temperature, then flows and then releases enenrgy at different place. Since solids are not likely to be moved their heat capacity is not that important.)
So Silver should be the best for heat transfer.


Thanks for the data.

 

[RoadWarrior]

Hmmmm back to copper sulphate and other salts, although they would promote electrolytic action, and their thermal properties in a regular solution suggest no particular benefit in using them, beyond a slight lowering of the freezing point, which can be bettered by other things in solution, there is another angle to these that I discovered recently....

When they dissolve in water they absorb heat energy from the water. Now this is not a particularly startling revelation, until one remembers that warm water absorbs salts better and cool water dissolves salts worse. Therefore if one plans a system carefully, one can build something akin to a heatpipe using the dissolving and reformation of crystals to help transfer heat. However, this means there is some partially solid matter circulating in your water system. If one can find the right balance however one could arrange matters such that the pump is right after ones block and all the salts have dissolved in the block. Quite extreme cooling may however be necessary for the salts to come out of solution at the cooling end, probably better than a radiator could do for instance, unless your hot side is very hot.

I keep thinking a bong or water tower would be a great way to bring the salts out of solution, but you would probably require a filter on top to stop salt dusts being blown out of the top. However, a "naturally aspirated" water tower without forced air would probably not require this. Or a tall unit with light airflow may not find this necessary either. Depends how severe your blower is. A bong that is constantly topped up with a valve or water trap would be the best here to keep the same amount of water in the system and be able to judge better the amount of salts needed to achieve a saturated solution at the water block and an oversaturated solution at the cooled end with crystals coming out of solution and being carried into the waterblock in suspension. You would also have to streamline the flow out of the bottom of the bong so that the salts did not collect at the bottom, you'd basically want a funnel feed out of the bottom or similar.

It goes without saying that you shouldn't attempt this in any old system due to electrolytic problems, and should design the system to avoid this. Electrolytic problems should be possible to avoid somewhat by bonding all metal parts to each other electrically with wires though.

Anyway, that's another angle on what use salts such as copper sulphate or calcium chloride could be in a cooling system.


Road Warrior

 

[Karsta]

Actually copper sulfate has an additional advantage: it is antimicrobial. It is for example an effective algiside in lakes and swimming pools.

I was thinking of using it for that purpose but then I noticed that it precipitated fabric softener (or rinse I'm not sure about right word) I use now for lowering surface tension and as an antimicrobial agent (not sure if it works).

 

[r0ckstarbob]

just an update

just had a pretty interesting conversation on Viscosity and it looks like i was mistaken and compared the wrong kind of data - should have compared Kinematic Viscosity instead of Dynamic Viscosity. so here is the chart for the same chemicals with the Kinematic Viscosity figures. i've also included what he told me about it and why it's important for all you real gearheads out there. his name is EMC2 he knows a thing or two about this.

Ok, here goes

Ok, first I'll agree with you regarding methanol and water being much better for the liquid side of the cooling equation of computers from a thermal standpoint.

Hmmmm... where to start regarding the rest... too much for one post

Note: all comments are geared towards the cooling systems at hand - low viscosity, low temperature, newtonian fluids. (the term 'low' being relative - temps under 80C and viscosities such that the liquids are considered "thin" compared to "thick" fluids like oil)

* and the winner is *


Viscocity


The kinematic viscosity is the important value Dynamic viscosity alone is of lesser importance.

First a little piece of info you may not know. Kinematic viscocity and Dynamic viscocity can be related to one another through a material's density. Here's the relationship:

Kinematic viscosity v (Greek letter nu)
Dynamic viscocity u (Greek letter mu)
Density p (Greek letter rho)

v = u/p


In the case of thermal designs using liquid, there are 3 important and inter-related issues:

The Reynold's number (an indicator of flow type - from fully laminar to extremely turbulent) for the fluid flow - this affects directly both the frictional losses and the film coefficient.

Frictional losses through the system - this affects the final mass flow rate (which subsequently also affects the velocity of the flow).

The Film Coefficient (also called the convection heat-transfer coefficient) - in this realm, a measure of the heat transfer between the fluid coolant and the solids it passes through (both block and rad in this case).


Here are the fluid characteristics which are used to calculate each of these 3 very important values:

Reynold's Number - this is a dimensionless number (no units of measure associated with it) that is a relationship between the inertial forces and the viscous forces in fluid flow. The characteric of the fluid used to calculate this number is the kinematic viscosity.

Frictional losses - the number of friction factor correlations in unreal, but - they all use the same flow properties, the differences are in how they handle the geometry of the channel the fluid flows within.

For laminar flows, it's pretty straightforward - it depends only on the Reynold's number. For turbulent flows, it depends upon both the Reynold's number and on the surface features and geometry of the channel the fluid flows through. No direct fluid properties are used - these are taken into account through the use of the Reynold's number.

These frictional losses are usually discussed in terms of head and are what determine what the flow rate through the system is for a given pump. The flow rate of course also determines the velocity of the flow at any point in the system.


Film coefficient - this is the 'ultimate' value that determines the heat flux from the solid (water block in this case) to the fluid flow and from the fluid flow to the solid (heat exchanger, radiator, heater core). The basic equation for the heat transfer is as follows:

Q/A = h * (Tw - Tf) where Q/A is heat flux per area, h is the film coefficient, Tw is the Wall temperature, and Tf is the Fluid temperature.

The film coefficient is calculated from the following characteristics of the fluid flow - the thermal conductivity of the fluid, the Reynold's number for the flow, and the Prandtl number (another dimensionless value that characterizes convection - it relates the hydrodynamic and thermal boundary layers, linking velocity and temperature and is equal to the kinematic viscocity divided by the thermal diffusivity).


Hopefully, you can now see why kinematic viscosity is the "important" viscosity as it were .

low numbers are good.

enjoy

 

[SmogFighter]

W W

My Brain is fried!!

Thanks to everyone who contributed... my HSF sucks (blows)
anyhow, so it's off to the junk yard to find an old 'fridg.
I have kicking around the idea of making a cold plate for my
500 K6/2. ( I have a limited knowlege of auto referigeration,
so it shouldn't be too hard... What?!? No carburetor?!?!)

Edit: Have been kicking around...

 

[Lord_of_Decay]

WOW, that was some reading. Great article filled with alot of great information. Having decided to go with water cooling I am looking at using the Methanol/Water mix. From this article and from what others have told me it appears to work the best. I will have to make a trip to my local Automotive store and pick up some Windshield Washer concentrate.

Wish to say thanks to everyone that took the time to do the research for this article.

 

[DualP3Power]

Just what I needed. Thanks!

 

[Stephen Castles]

err the servers for the main charts are down...........

 

[r0ckstarbob]

err the servers for the main charts are down...........

i moved the images to a new server - all should be kosher now. sorry for the delay

RSB

 

[rebelrage9]

Hey I just finished reading the entire post and was able to follow 80-90% of it (good for it being 0145 hours; not to mention I graduated from high school less than a week ago).

I just wanted to say great job to everybody.

I would like to know what everyone thinks is the best solution for a basic water cooled system (High quality [but not solid gold] , no TECs, no refrigeration, etc.) by means of the cooling liquid.

I have pieced togeather what I think was the general concensious, but won't state it here to adviod mudding the waters.

I am intrested only in performance, but in overall 'bestness' taking into account such factors of easy to aquire, price, germicide, matience, etc. ALL THINGS CONSIDERED.

Please also included suggested ratios and source of substinance (eg. to use a 99:1 ratio of the ****** - water solution. You can find it in windshield washer fluid in auto part stores.)

I am nodding off while writing this, so if any of the horrible mispellings or inchoherent thoughs need clarifacation just let me know, and thank you in advance for your opinoins.

Adam

 

[r0ckstarbob]

distilled water and a little bit of redlines water wetter.

or

33:66 ratio methanol/water windshield wiper fluid

 

[rebelrage9]

Cool thanks for the suggestion. I know you guys are probably burnt out about this, but it is hard for a newb like myself to compile all of this great info into a single "best" solution for the adverage person with a MP config intrested in mild moderate overclocking.

Any body else care to throw there simplified suggestions out here again for us slow ones?

 

[Despotes]

Methanol/WS wash fluid is an anti-algaeic/bacterial agent that will eliminate the possibilty of "scum" in your system??

 

[copyman]

epox 8k3a+ (mp1800+) 2033mhz / vcore 2,24v / rock solid / memos 214 mhz

temp idle = 28º / full burn = 39º / ambient temp 19º

project = www.watercooler.com.br

pcmark 2002

http://service.madonion.com/compare?pcm=407559


Sandra results

this Brazilian waterbloock has temperature reduced in die 6º C less than inoovatek rev3

The reason to envoy this informaciomations and my experiences about watercoolers in this fórum is because I want to effiency’evaluatation that help me to do a better job with watercoolers.
If you know some system similarity or better, I wish you show me to research and improve my system.