FX8350 and similar OctoCores. Whats the advantage nowadays?

[RGone]

Recently fuel prices on international market dropped by about 50%, in Poland we see about 10% drop and government already thinks to add one more tax.

The Usa wants to raise gas tax also so they can get hands on more money. It is said that this fuel price drop may last most of 2015 but after that back up again and never no never not ever do they drop the tax.
RGone...

 

[caddi daddi]

I have kits of both, apu's, fx, thuban, 4790K, q6000,
amd has more buttons to press and knobs to twist and cost is less.
game, lets just call that a wash with a few exceptions.
here's where it gets strange, in 24/7 use, if you sit down and work at a rig day in and day out and then come home a fire up another, intel just seems clunky in operation.
mandrake had talked about this before i got an intel rig built, he's right.

 

[ShrimpBrime]

it was too hot for my daily rig and too slow for benching

Actually, if you look closely, Intel runs hotter. I've never had an AMD chip running at 80c or more. Usually keep my AMDs (on liquid) in check at 50c or less. Now if I'm not mistaken, 50c is much cooler than 80c.

So thermally Intel runs hotter litter ally. lol.

And slow for benching? You mean vs Intel right?

OK that's fine. Try running WinRar bench on your AMD and pit that up to Intel. Should see some better competition. I've always loved AMD for zipping and un-zipping, fast as heck brother.

 

[Johan45]

Well the Intel does run hotter but I think what C_D meant was the heat output on the FX is tremendous. From what I hear the new Intel2011v3 is right up there now with the added cores.

 

[ShrimpBrime]

I quoted Woomack actually.... neither here nor there.

Fact still remains you dissipate more heat from Intel. Imagine if the TDP limit was only 60c..... The Intels would still be sub 3ghz chips.

edit:

wattage usage and wattage heat are two different things as well. Keeping in mind, AMD really doesn't use major wattage for it's performance.

I believe Phenom and Phenom II where up to 140w TDP stock. But who here knows what the TDP is being advertised????

I've never seen my AMDs use more than it's rated spec for wattage usage at stock. Usually the chips are under that spec.

 

[chrisjames61]

Indeed.

Perfectly happy with 325cui and 350cui small blocks in my trucks.

I put a 302 in my Ranger and love it. Next project is to put a Ford 4.6 litre in my Wrangler. Going to be a lot of fabricating in that project.

 

[bob4933]

On topic,

The amd's fail to intels single core power. This includes a vast majority of gaming (which seems to be the most prolific reason to even bother this discussion), day to day pc function, and other small tasks.

Where physical core count matters is when you have rendering, file manipulation, multi tasking, any other strenuous compute performance that involve more than 4 cores. So with those, AMD's octocore cpu's shine over i5's (considerably so in certain circumstances), and in some cases beat i7's (not counting the hexa core+ beasts of course).

For me, REVERB, rendering, and multi tasking are on the menu, so the 8 core is what I use. I wish they were better for gaming, but its not like Im having much of an issue with anything after a good overclock. I'd say in general, the average user needs at most the i5 range for gaming and house hold computing performance. Since they don't need an overclock to perform well, they should be a fair amount more reliable as well.

 

[ShrimpBrime]

Well trying not to make comparisons to Intel, going from a Phenom II quad to FX x6 or x8 you see great performance increase in multitasking. That was the goal for AMD was to improve this skill with a different tackle on design. It's not horrible at all. It's not exactly super ultra fast in comparison to Intel, but that's not really the point here. Floating Point needs improvement yes. At stock they aren't super power hungry. No more than ever before with a couple few extra threads.

I think 8 core cpus help with running multiple video cards in tri fire for example. This also helps tax the NB and HT bandwidths that there's plenty of. Overlocking AMD only helps. Helps Intel too. So in turn you'll see cpu usage go up. Perhaps there aren't many game titles that support 8 threads, it probably will become more common place.

If some one asked they wanted to upgrade from q6600 rig to FX-8 core because it's within their budget, would you suggest it?

 

[bob4933]

If some one asked they wanted to upgrade from q6600 rig to FX-8 core because it's within their budget, would you suggest it?

Depends on the usage I'd say.

For gaming, absolutely not. An 8350 is what, 160$? Needs to be paired with a 120+$ motherboard. That brings the paired price close to 280-300$ + a cooler to get any OC out of it (30$ for a 212 evo). An i5 will do fine on an h or b board for 75-100$, and costs 190$. The cost is pretty similar, but the i5 will pretty much always beat an 8350 in gaming. Less likely to have ram compatibility issues, and doesn't need an OC to perfrom well in comparison to an 8350. Runs cooler, less power, etc etc.

 

[ShrimpBrime]

Depends on the usage I'd say.

For gaming, absolutely not. An 8350 is what, 160$? Needs to be paired with a 120+$ motherboard. That brings the paired price close to 280-300$ + a cooler to get any OC out of it (30$ for a 212 evo). An i5 will do fine on an h or b board for 75-100$, and costs 190$. The cost is pretty similar, but the i5 will pretty much always beat an 8350 in gaming. Less likely to have ram compatibility issues, and doesn't need an OC to perfrom well in comparison to an 8350. Runs cooler, less power, etc etc.

OK but an i5 isn't exactly an 8 threaded cpu. And you would like to purchase a K model for overclocking. For average person, it may be better for gaming, most definitely but why buy into another quad when you already have a q6600 for example? Gaming does also rely a whole heavy deal on the graphics card.

How about a guy with a Phenom II 965BE OCed to 4ghz OR Q6600 OCed to 4ghz and he has an older video card. Say he's running a GTX 460. Has 300$ to spend. What would be a smarter purchase for gaming?

Get a GTX 780 Or upgrade board and cpu i5 intel or x8 amd 300$ worth of board and cpu?

 

[EarthDog]

1. AMD fx 8350 needs to dissipate a bigger heatload than the Intel. There is is a difference between temperature and heat. Elementary science there. Overclocked to their respective air limits, the power use on amd is WAY higher and therefore heat needed to dissipate much more, regardless of temperature. With your thinking, it's the same to cool a bonfire with yellow flames and a lighter with a yellow flame (flame color = temps). That is amd and Intel.
2. Multiple cores do not help with multiple gpus. Look at the deplorable performance of the fx 8 against haswell in multiple gpu setups. The amd just can't push multiple gpus as fast as Intel.
3. I'd most certainly upgrade from a q6600 to a 4690k (quad to quad). The clockspeed differences as well as ipc between the two processors make the performance gal between them huge! An I5 is a more than viable solution for gaming and general computing and budget rendering/encoding etc. Now on the latter, that is heavily multithreaded the fx will best a haswell intel quad and sometimes an Intel quad with HT.
4. For gaming on a q6600 and $300. I'd get a r9 290/gtx 970 and overclock the cpu as that will yield better fps increase in most titles.

Gaming does also rely a whole heavy deal on the graphics card

uhh huh. Hence why I said the above.

 

[RGone]

Freeken E_D...

...YOU duh manz.

An I5 is a more than viable solution for gaming and general computing and budget rendering/encoding etc. Now on the latter, that is heavily multithreaded the fx will best a haswell intel quad and sometimes an Intel quad with HT.

This maybe the only thread I have seen in at least 7 or 8 years that had a sensible discussion without boyism's being rampant. At least we are having a sensible discussion based on real merits that must be utilized in an adquete manner. Congratulations to you men of civility and poise.

RGone...

 

[Alaric]

...YOU duh manz.



This maybe the only thread I have seen in at least 7 or 8 years that had a sensible discussion without boyism's being rampant. At least we are having a sensible discussion based on real merits that must be utilized in an adquete manner. Congratulations to you men of civility and poise.

RGone...

This may be the only/best AMD and Intel (not vs.) thread I've seen anywhere. This is great stuff. Thank you , guys ! More useful experience and info here than the 100 page flame wars I usually see.

 

[Mag10]

I agree with the kudos above! Back to the topic at hand, From what I have seen and read all over the net is that Intel draws less overall power while producing more heat under load conditions. Of course this is simple combining knowledge of several reputable sites of hardware reviews and does not show the whole picture of said product. As for AMD I have personally never seen my 8320 over about 100-110w / ~65*C overclocked under load. In fact since I upgraded cooling I don't believe its hit past 45*c under full load.(various games)

I do have to admit I can tell for sure when the CPU is pushing some heat as the room warms up very quickly lol.

 

[ShrimpBrime]

What I really like about these FX chips, is the ability to overclock and Under-volt at the same time. It seems they feed more to ensure stability when most of these chips I've seen run way under voltage at stock/overclock.

Assuming a stock FX chip is enough to game (with rather strong VGA) at stock.... Undervolt, save even more power.

Have read many a times.... I overclock with Cool and Quiet on!

My point is you can make an FX chug the beer, or you can make it sip. Really depends on the individual overclocking the darn thing.

Personally under extreme conditions and rounding 7ghz with LN2 is just a gas. The potential for 8ghz is really there if you know which chips to look for.

 

[EarthDog]

You can do that with Intel chips too.

There is always built in headroom as not all motherboards will deliver the exact VID value.

The Intel side just doesn't chug as hard.

 

[bob4933]

OK but an i5 isn't exactly an 8 threaded cpu. And you would like to purchase a K model for overclocking. For average person, it may be better for gaming, most definitely but why buy into another quad when you already have a q6600 for example? Gaming does also rely a whole heavy deal on the graphics card.

How about a guy with a Phenom II 965BE OCed to 4ghz OR Q6600 OCed to 4ghz and he has an older video card. Say he's running a GTX 460. Has 300$ to spend. What would be a smarter purchase for gaming?

Get a GTX 780 Or upgrade board and cpu i5 intel or x8 amd 300$ worth of board and cpu?

That's kind of my point honestly. For gaming centric builds an i5 is near perfect. Until we get some ridiculous games that utilize 4+ cores, the i5 will and should be the champ in gaming platforms. Now I did NOT say the amd chips will fall on its face, but clock for clock an i5 will break any amd chip on the market (in gaming), While running cooler and more efficiently.

The older intel chips aren't very comparable to their modern counterparts. My e5800 is in no way comparable to a g3258 or any i3. It was choking up my 7770, and that's an old gpu. Slapping a gtx 970 on a Q chip is... a waste of money.

 

[EarthDog]

Slapping a gtx 970 on a Q chip is... a waste of money

depends. As in the other thread, the guy had $300 to spend. While the 970 would have a glass ceiling due to the q6600, he would still get a larger fps increase with a gpu than a cpu.

 

[RGone]

he would still get a larger fps increase with a gpu than a cpu.

I think you are dead on E_D. What I do wonder at though is the direction of this thread since we are far off of "what the heck is up with 8 core AMD"?
RGone...

 

[EarthDog]

It's a bit off, but he dredged up something from another thread here(the q6600 and 970) that needed corrected.

This should close it up, again.