Getting back into watercooling, need help choosing parts

[Dakyris]

Hey guys, I got the upgrade fever again and since most of my parts are pretty much maxed out, I'm turning to the cooling system. I find my current kit a bit too loud for my taste so I'd like to dabble into watercooling again. Now I'm not a total newb, I did have a custom build 7-8 years ago and it worked really well for almost 5 years (until my landlord screwed up the transformer and blew up my 2 psus and my mobo).

I must admit I'm a bit out of the loop (bad pun not intended) hardware wise. I doubt most of my old components are still usable (not properly stored, incompatible blah blah blah) so I'll buy everything new, difference is this time I actually have a decent budget haha.

Ok the system I want to cool is in my sig but I'll repeat it anyway :
Core i7 3770k OC'ed (max freq will be determined after retesting with new cooling system)
ASUS Sabertooth Z77 (won't be cooling the chipset or anything like that)
2x EVGA GTX670 Superclocked 4GB (those fans are annoying)
Current case : Fractal Design Define XL (R1)
Current PSU : Corsair HX1000
Current CPU cooler : Corsair H80 with 2x Gentle Typhoon
Current Case fans : a mix of Noctua NF-P12 (2 in front, 1 at the bottom, 1 in the side door, have a few more spares) and NF-P14 (2 in front) and that weird angled fan at the top of the case.

Now I'm seriously considering changing the case/psu (won't be wasted I have a few motherboard+cpus laying around that need a case/psu) because the define XL R1 wasn't really designed for water cooling.

I'm thinking about getting the Fractal Design Define XL R2, yes it's pretty much the same thing but it can support a slim 2x120mm rad above the mobo and another 2x120mm (not necessarily slim) in front. And since I'm a bit lazy I'd buy a new PSU (probably a corsair HX1050) to keep my current cable management intact (besides, secondary/tertiary computer would need a psu anyway).

As for the cooling itself, I was thinking about making a dual loop internal system. 1 loop for the cpu, 1 loop for the 2 GPUs. As far as I can tell, it's not recommended to run 1 cpu + 2 gpu in a single loop.

Now the shopping list :
- Fractal Design Define XL R2
- Corsair HX1050
- EK GeForce 670 GTX VGA Liquid Cooling Block - Acetal CSQ (EK-FC670 GTX Acetal CSQ)
- EK FC Bridge Dual Serial 3-Slot CSQ - SLI Connection - Acetal (EK-FC Bridge DUAL Serial 3-Slot CSQ)
- EK Supremacy ELITE CPU Liquid Cooling Block - Full Nickel - Socket 115x w/ Indigo Xtreme (EK-Supremacy Elite - Intel 115x)
- XSPC RX240 Dual 120mm Radiator - Custom Painted White (for the front)
- XSPC EX240 Dual 120mm Low Profile Split Fin Radiator - Custom Painted White (for the top)
- Monsoon compression fitting 1/2" ID x 3/4" OD (3 packs of 6)
- 2 killcoils
- PrimoChill PrimoFlex Advanced LRT Tubing 1/2"ID x 3/4" OD (probably 20ft to have a bit of spare)
- XSPC Dual 5.25" Bay - DDC Dual Pump / Dual Split Reservoirs w/ Dual Pumps Installed (2x MCP35X)

I'm in Canada so my suppliers are limited. I'd rather get most of my stuff from Canadian suppliers like NCIX but most of this stuff isn't available there (like the gpu blocks and the rad). I know FrozenCPU ships over here (I bought from them a few years back) but it's gonna be rather expensive.

At this point, my total cost including shipping, taxes, duties, etc. is probably around 1.5k so I'm definitely open to suggestions but that's a bit more than I expected to be spending.

For the fans I'm undecided at this point, might get more Gentle Typhoon or use my current Noctua. If I'm REALLY desperate I have a dozen Delta AFB1212VHE monsters from my previous build but I'm aiming for silence (well as much as possible).

So yeah, feel free to comment, I'm open to suggestions. Maybe I'm missing something, maybe I went completely overkill on one aspect or the other (I tend to do that).

Thanks in advance,
Dak.

 

[Conumdrum]

Looks okay but we recommend 120x5 for raddage.

Otherwise a series loop is just fine no need for two loops.

 

[Dakyris]

120x5 sounds a bit extreme and hard to fit.

I was thinking dual loop to avoid having to mod the case if possible by splitting the load to 2 different smaller rads. I know 2 rads in series would be possible. Probably something like pump -> rad (top) -> cpu -> rad (front) -> gpus (the fc bridge distributes to both cards) -> res, but I had concerns about the restriction, might be a bit too much for a single pump.

I'll be honest, I'm not that handy so if I try to mod the case, I'd probably make a mess.

EDIT : But I'll definitely keep that in mind and see if I can find a way to fit a single large rad like that. Possibly outside the case.

 

[Conumdrum]

Yep a 360 off the back and a good 220 inside you'll be able to keep the 5 AP-15s nice and quiet. One 35x will have no problem with a series loop like my sig.

 

[Conumdrum]

Wait just one gpu then 120x4 is fine. Two then a bit more rad.

 

[Dakyris]

BTW, your sig doesn't seem to be working. And yeah, we're talking about a pair of GTX670, I plan on OC'ing them a bit (I already found their max clock, I simply can't sustain them with my current cooling capabilities).

EDIT: Would a push-pull configuration help? I was thinking a pair of fans for the cpu loop but push-pull for the gpu loop (I know I'm still talking about twin loops or twin rads, simply didn't make up my mind yet)

 

[Conumdrum]

Ahh sorry, my Iphone doesn't make a sig. The mobile page don't do that I guess.

Push pull on the thin rad would help, but that's tight at the top of the case.

And it would help just a C or 3 anyway.

Here is the deal about a full serial loop. When your gaming, your CPU isn't working as hard, so it doesn't hit those high testing temps. So the extra cooling can be used for the GPUs. But, since the GPUs are working harder it will increase the Dt temps (stickies) overall in the loop, thus making the CPU a bit warmer.

If you don't push the CPU to it's max and don't run concurrent testing benchmarking loads, you'll probably be fine. One thing I would look at though, the RX rad is perfect with AP 15 fans. The RS rad, thinner but higher FPI would probably like some 3000 RPM Gentle Typhoons slowed down on a fan controller to maybe 2200.

Still, think about the quiet issue. Be nice if you went with the 120x3. But if not enough, you can always upgrade, sell the 120x2 in the classies and get a 120x3.

Go for it. Ohh just one pump. Like I said the 35x single is way plenty for your loop.

On all my input, your welcome to read the stickies about heatload, and read martinsliquidlab.org for the pump. and our reviews and others and the tons of folks that use it in a multi-block setup.

 

[briansun1]

how many kill coils do you need?

 

[Conumdrum]

He needs just one, I missed that.

 

[Dakyris]

Makes sense.

I think I'll stick to the same reservoir (doesn't cost that much more than the others) but only install 1 pump that way I can run full serial and if I want to switch back to dual loops down the line I still can without changing much.

The 2 killcoils would've been necessary for the dual loop because the res is separated and the liquids don't mix so one is needed per side.

CPU won't be OC'ed much, having issues pushing the i7 3770k far, it seems to have poor heat dissipation. No matter, it's plenty for most use case anyway. I'm probably going to push it to 4.0ghz to begin with and eventually ramp it up a bit but anything past 4.3 was rather unstable. My main priority is to reduce the noise level, especially the gpu fans which have this annoying whine.

And yeah, my main usage is gaming.

I probably still have my old 2x120mm rad around here (converted car heatercore) so if I need a bit more cooling I can always jury rig that, won't be as pretty but it would get the job done without punching holes in the case.

Maybe you noticed but I'm going for a black and white theme... Case is pure black, motherboard is covered by a black shield, rams are black, gpu blocks are black. So I'm gonna add a bit of contrast with white rads and tubes, heatshrinks and eventually I'll try to paint the fans but not now since it's winter and -1000°C outside so venting would be an issue.

The only exception is the cpu block because I wanted the version bundled with the Ek indigo but I may switch back to an acetal version with a black top instead of full nickel. I've been reading about the indigo, seems nice (albeit a bit expensive) but the installation sounds a bit scary (gotta run the cpu without the pumps, etc. for a while in the 85°C range to cure it).

Speaking of TIM, good old Artic Silver 5 would be good enough for the gpu heatsinks, right?

 

[Conumdrum]

Get some MX-4. Or look up reviews, there for sure is better. AS5 is a few C behind most tests easily now. Drop the Ol' word from good 'ol.

Build it first with regular paste. Then try the IX. You do know you have to leave WCing off to let it melt? GPU's don't like that. But many have done it. Honestly, with an OC of 4.0 you'll never see the diff with IX. Not needed.

You should look up xtreme systems forums and look up the latest from Stren about CPU blocks. And I think Vapor did some big TIM tests there last year. Might look up good 'ol Skinneelabs.com too. Don't forget martins, bookmark it.

 

[Dakyris]

Ok will do. Thanks.

As I said, I'm not going too extreme. I thought the Indigo looked nice until I saw "run without cooling to melt it" part. I could do it, yeah but I feel like it's a bit too risky. I would've disconnected the gpu and ran off the igpu for the melting part to avoid damaging the vid cards (one of the nice thing about z77, versatility) or possibly ran it before completing the loop though I'm not sure that would've worked.

Anyway, since I'm targeting a mild overclock, I doubt I'll bother and stick to classic TIM that can be wiped and reapplied easily, having only 2 tries for like 30$ is a bit much at this point (I know I know, weird priorities 120$ worth of compression fitting but 30$ for non-reusable TIM is too much).

 

[Conumdrum]

I get your brain. Your behind the times a LOT about WC, but 'youz got brains and common senz'.

Your first build list was sooo far beyond most we see here.

Ohh I have read the Monsoons are a real PITA. Umm read unn aniziamaina some crap name like that about his build. They look beutiful. But they were a pain. Maybe look at the Swiftech compressions. On that note why compressions? You want bling or easy? Get standard Bitspower barbs and hoseclamps. I never used a compression, no need to. But I never was a bling guy like DarthBevis.

Animazainaaaa made a beutiful rig, his photo skills are awesome, I applaud him for his rig.

On fittings, now you mention it. Look into The Bitspower rotaries, the 90's. They allow great angles. Toss 4-8 of them in the basket.

I know you haven't spent hours in the stickies, you might of missed my build log. Look at how they bend. Scroll to the ending for the WC pron fitting pics.

http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=678189

 

[Dakyris]

The monsoon were mostly for look and also price, at 40$ for 6, that's around 6.67 per fitting, the bitspower vary a bit but in 1/2" x 3/4, they go up to 14$ per fitting, that'd get expensive fast with the initial dual loop system, not much better by removing 1 pump, I still need like 10-12 and a few spares 'cause I know I'm gonna damage some. My old build used barbs and hoseclamps, they worked well enough and I wouldn't mind using that again but it just wouldn't look clean for what I have in mind.

I did look up the stickies. Honestly can't say I spent days reading everything. Hell, some of this stuff dates back to my original build in 2005 (way back in high school lol) but that's where I got some ideas for the parts list in my original post. So yeah I know I'm not up to date on some of this stuff but I'm working on it.

GPU blocks were a no brainer, I wanted a complete block, not the partial conversion like the one I had back in the days where I had to use AS epoxy to fix small coolers on the RAMs, etc. and out of the few blocks I could find for the reference 670 (EK, Heatkiller and XSPC) only the EK had decent reviews.

I read a few reviews for the CPU block and it seemed like the EK HF (more or less replaced by the newer Supremacy) were generally well rated (and it looks like that's what you're using so I can't be that far off) and I figured I'd stick to EK to get more or less the same look for all the blocks.

I was also limited by my suppliers (for example NCIX don't carry a lot of thermal paste brands, mostly AS and AC). I checked the websites you suggested (skinnee for the thermal paste, martins for fans) and it looks like I'll either go with MX-4 (from NCIX) or Prolimatech PK-1 (but that one will be rather expensive). But for most builds the AS5 (I have some REALLY old tubes laying around) were good enough. I'm trying to optimize a bit this one so I'll try something new.

If you look in my previous posts (2005), you should find links to my 8 years old WC kit, it wasn't pretty but got the job done. Got my old P4 3.4GHZ, socket 478, down from nearly 85-90°C to 25°C at full load with 2 vid cards (which were if I remember correctly a pair of NVidia 6600). Some of the old equipement is still around, I still have the same desk and speakers lol

 

[TonyMc]

Just glancing over your list... Stay away from the Monsoons... They look great, but are a real PITA to work with. The "tool" is a joke and if you get any other color besides chrome they'll look like crap up close once you put the "tool" to them. Trust me on this. Go with the Bitspowers if you must use compressions...

 

[GTXJackBauer]

Not bad. 120.5 is the minimum I would advice but if you're OC'ing remember I would say a minium of 2x 120.3. Worse comes to worse you go for a newer case if your funds permit.

MX-4 is a great paste. Go for it.

Remember distilled water and silver kill coil. Also for tubing I would go with new tubes and if you do go with the improved Primochill Advanced LRT. Not the Pro as people get mixed up and buy their old problematic tubing.

A MCP-35x will handle all of that but I would maybe grab another one if you don't want the one running almost at full speed (Noisy) as well as for redundancy. If you're PC is never on when you're not around than just stick with one if you're funds are running dry.

Only time my rig is on full load on CPU+GPU is when I'am folding. My water temps are around 30-34c depending on my ambient temp in my room with a delta of 10c-14c and 5c being on idle. Can't complain.

I would go with compressions since you're going for the "bling" look. Your fingers will take a beating but you will be thankful once you're done with your theme.

Hope to see some pictures and hope you make a build log as well.

 

[Dakyris]

First of all, thanks everyone for the comments/suggestions. It's really appreciated.

Stay away from the Monsoons... They look great, but are a real PITA to work with.

Ok thanks for the info, it looked alright and read a few favorable reviews, figured it couldn't be that bad. I was hoping to avoid the Bitspower because they're like 2x more expensive... I'll see if I can fit that in the budget.

Not bad. 120.5 is the minimum I would advice but if you're OC'ing remember I would say a minium of 2x 120.3. Worse comes to worse you go for a newer case if your funds permit.

I'm going for a mild OC on both the cpu and gpus and I couldn't find a case that would support a 120x3 that I liked. I guess I'll try the setup as is (well in a single loop with the provision to split loops if necessary but unlikely) The case isn't that expensive (around 100$) so changing it is not that big of a deal and I can always use it for secondary (i7 2600k, 2x gtx570) or tertiary (c2q q9550) setups.

Remember distilled water and silver kill coil.

Agreed, I had a loop running for 5 years, I know tap water (especially the tap water in my town, it's full of sodium among other things) is a terrible idea.

Also for tubing I would go with new tubes and if you do go with the improved Primochill Advanced LRT. Not the Pro as people get mixed up and buy their old problematic tubing.

Yeah that's what I was targeting, the Advanced model. I had some 8 years old tubes laying around but I figured it'd be a bad idea to reuse them (not being properly stored, they are probably contamined among other things). Any other suggestions for alternatives? I took the primochill advanced because they were pretty much the only thing I found at one of my supplier and they seemed alright.

MCP-35x will handle all of that but I would maybe grab another one if you don't want the one running almost at full speed (Noisy) as well as for redundancy. If you're PC is never on when you're not around than just stick with one if you're funds are running dry.

Well I was planning on getting that dual bay res with 2 pumps installed in it, I can simply link the inlet of pump 2 with outlet of pump 1 to put them in series or leave pump 2 alone as a backup/standby. I saw alternatives around the same price with the MCP-35x2 (the one that combines 2 35x in series) so that could be an other option but I liked the idea of being able to switch to dual loops if necessary or simply to try it.

Only time my rig is on full load on CPU+GPU is when I'am folding. My water temps are around 30-34c depending on my ambient temp in my room with a delta of 10c-14c and 5c being on idle. Can't complain.

Sounds great.

I would go with compressions since you're going for the "bling" look. Your fingers will take a beating but you will be thankful once you're done with your theme.

Yeah I figure I won't be playing too much with those fittings, I tend to leave my setup as is and simply upgrade the whole thing. I know I'll have to do some basic maintenance but that's why I'm avoiding dyes, etc. should limit the amount of maintenance I need to do. Having to work harder initially doesn't bother me too much. Now I dunno if I'll keep the Monsoon since almost everybody warns me against them or not but yeah, will most likely stick to compression, I want to try new stuff with this build.

As for the build log, I'll see what I can do. But frankly, I doubt it will be that interesting because I'm not doing anything fancy, no real case modding or anything like that. Simply assembling various parts. Except eventually painting the fans but that's a different story. I'll take pictures, that's certain.

 

[Dakyris]

Sorry for the wall of text, didn't think I wrote that much, at least it proves I read everything

By the way, I'm thinking about ordering everything this weekend unless something major happens. So if you have more comments/suggestions, keep 'em coming!

 

[Dakyris]

Would an additional 120.1 rad in the back (dedicated to the cpu or not) help? that's the only thing I think I could add without changing the case to get the equivalent of 120.5, I know it's less effective and I'm probably pushing my luck on the pump. But that could be a backup plan if 2x 120.2 isn't enough.

 

[Armani2468]

I'll put in my 2 cents

Re: The Monsoon. They look great but as the other member stated they are a PIA. If you turn just a tad to much they will lock up and you will have to remove the bottom piece from the base/port. Causing even more work. I locked up a few as I didn't like the length of the tubing........and it was hell.

But they look nice

Take a look at my sig. for pics of the Monsoon in action.