Help me put together my rig!

[DerekPDX]

So lets say I got two of the Alphacool 280 rads--would the PMP-450 handle that, or would I need to buy a second?

Edit: Not to stack, but to place somewhere else in the case.

 

[bassnut]

Derek it might be easier if you posted which case you are planning to use for this build. Water cooling can get expensive that's what the stickies are all about as well as the help from members here in the forums who have run into issues like this before. It's not hard to drop 500 to 1000 on a loop, take your time and get it right the first time.

 

[m0r7if3r]

http://martinsliquidlab.org/2012/04/15/alphacool-nexxxos-xt45-360-radiator/4/

Those numbers look like they're running low to me, and based on the v2 rad testing setup that martin is using, I think that his enclosure is a bit restrictive and is limiting airflow through the rad. I think it would be safe to say that the numbers you gave are a worst case scenario, and don't represent typical use that should be designed for. That said, I'm still getting back into it, data wise, so I might be way off.

So lets say I got two of the Alphacool 280 rads--would the PMP-450 handle that, or would I need to buy a second?

Edit: Not to stack, but to place somewhere else in the case.

Rads are relatively low restriction, you should be fine with that with a D5. That said, have you looked at DDC pumps at all?

 

[Mandrake4565]

Those numbers look like they're running low to me, and based on the v2 rad testing setup that martin is using, I think that his enclosure is a bit restrictive and is limiting airflow through the rad. I think it would be safe to say that the numbers you gave are a worst case scenario, and don't represent typical use that should be designed for. That said, I'm still getting back into it, data wise, so I might be way off.

Thanks m0r7if3r not having owned or tested that radiator it's tough for me to give an exact figure to the OP. I just wanted to make sure he was ok with the decision to go with that size rad. I usually go overkill on the raddage if I want the system to be quiet. It also depends on how much gaming stresses the Dual Gpus!

 

[DerekPDX]

m0r7if3r, Here's another set of pretty comprehensive testing on the alphacool rads:

http://www.coolingtechnique.com/en-...m-and-360mm-full-copper-review.html?showall=1

Mandrake: I didn't realize that the delta refers to just the water temp. I guess I don't really know what to do with that information--how that relates to the cooling capacity of a radiator. Obviously I understand lower deltas mean better performance and lower GPU temps, but what are those GPU temps? Why is everyone choosing delta 10 as the magic minimum number that everyone is attempting to obtain?

 

[DerekPDX]

I don't really have room for a second double radiator. I wonder if placing a single 120mm in the front as an intake, or perhaps on the bottom, and the dual 140mm on the roof as an outtake will be sufficient. The triple 120s have 43,200sqmm of surface area, while a dual 140+a single 120 = 53,600sqmm, or 24% more cooling area. I don't know if that would necessarily mean that it has 24% more cooling ability, however

m0r7if3r, I have looked at the DDC's however I have heard they are noisier, and having a quiet system is the ultimate goal of this build. However, and this is an interesting idea, I did find this Alphacool SilentBox for DDC pumps. I just don't know how well they work.

And here's my case:
Enermax Ostrog

 

[Mandrake4565]

Derek, why DT 10c is the magic number I cannot answer. When cooling gpu's because they will generally run hotter then cpu's shooting for something like Dt 15 is still acceptable. Additionally, to sort of answer the question in your last post if you bought the 280 radiator and decided down the road it's not cooling well enough or it's not quiet enough you could always add a 120/140 mm rad to the loop.

 

[m0r7if3r]

m0r7if3r, Here's another set of pretty comprehensive testing on the alphacool rads:

http://www.coolingtechnique.com/en-...m-and-360mm-full-copper-review.html?showall=1

Mandrake: I didn't realize that the delta refers to just the water temp. I guess I don't really know what to do with that information--how that relates to the cooling capacity of a radiator. Obviously I understand lower deltas mean better performance and lower GPU temps, but what are those GPU temps? Why is everyone choosing delta 10 as the magic minimum number that everyone is attempting to obtain?

That puts it closer to where I'd expect it to be...that said I didn't read the testing methodology, so it could be all made up.

The important thing to remember with dT is that every C you drop off your dT drops directly off your component temps, because they maintain a delta with the cooling medium based on their ability to shed heat into the cooling medium. 10C is where it starts getting hard to shed those additional watts cost effectively, it's simple diminishing returns. Shooting for 10C also has to do with the high core-loop dT that processors have, especially lately.

m0r7if3r, I have looked at the DDC's however I have heard they are nosier, and having a quiet system is the ultimate goal of this build. However, and this is an interesting idea, I did find this Alphacool SilentBox for DDC pumps. I just don't know how well they work.

As long as you've considered them and made an educated choice I would never fault someone for using a D5...I ask the same question the other way around when people come through having picked a DDC . I can't offer any insight into the effectiveness of the silentbox, sorry.

 

[DerekPDX]

As long as you've considered them and made an educated choice I would never fault someone for using a D5...I ask the same question the other way around when people come through having picked a DDC . I can't offer any insight into the effectiveness of the silentbox, sorry.

Yeah I was actually first looking at those because they were smaller, and I don't have a heckuva lot of room in the case, but I saw they were noisier and had some leaking issues, while (from what I have read) the D5s seem to be just rock solid reliable and quiet. Might up it and get the PWM version. What do you guys think about the pump tops for the D5s?

 

[m0r7if3r]

I've never heard of DDCs or D5s leaking. Tops are basically worthless for the D5, but they're a great investment for DDCs

 

[DerekPDX]

I've never heard of DDCs or D5s leaking. Tops are basically worthless for the D5, but they're a great investment for DDCs

I saw a couple threads around here about the DDCs leaking, but maybe its really rare. Good to know abotu the tops for D5s though, I was looking pretty closely at getting one from either alphacool or EK. I'll just go ahead and save the money and spend it on a second radiator.

 

[GTXJackBauer]

Unfortunately the main focus should have been on the case. After seeing the case it is a mid-tower case. If budget permitting i'd look for another water cooling ready case in the range of $100-$150 or go with your original plan and keep your existing one. You will have to go external because from the pictures it looks like there is no room what so ever for a top radiator internally and not sure about enough room for a bottom 120mm between the PSU and HD trays. It looks to me that the motherboard would be in the way and that there is only room for 120mm/140mm x 25mm fans.

As for the original case, I would possibly look at just grabbing a 240mm up top and 240mm in the rear, both externally, since that will be adequate for your case and have the option of adding the CPU to the loop down the road. Reason I say 120mm is because there are more options and better fans than there are for 140mm and are quieter with good static pressure. Also I would again look at the DDC (MCP-35x) as well since its a smaller form than the bigger D5. You could have it sit at the bottom of the case or a combo dual bay + DDC attachment. Here's one example of a reservoir with the DDC adapter. Here's another example of a reservoir with a dual bay + dual pump for redundancy as well as this example at a different price point. Just be careful with acrylic is my only warning. You can pick any model DDC pumps out there. So you don't have to go with the premium MCP-35x but the option of going with the older brothers MCP-350 or MCP-355 with those reservoirs.

For an extra $60+ you can get a nice Raystorm CPU block and be done with the whole loop. If you're on a budget than its understandable.

 

[DerekPDX]

Though I would love to get a new case, unfortunately right now that's an "either or" situation. Either I get a new case, or a get water cooling. With my loop looking like it will be at least $400, adding a $100 plus case on top of it right now makes it a bit out of reach. However, I do agree with you--this case is certainly not ideal for water cooling (though it does have two ports in the back for tubes), and wasn't intended to have WC when i put together the computer. I have no problem sticking the radiator on the outside on top, and I think there's enough room on the bottom for a 120mm rad.

I have been strongly considering just buying a new case right now, and if that happens it will most likely be either the Fractal Design Arc Midi 2 or the Corsair Air 540. The Corsair is excellent, with PLENTY of room for all the water cooling equipment, but it is wide, and would take up a large portion of my desk. The Fractal doesnt have that problem, and I really like the modular design of the HD/SSD bays (you can move them closer to the back to make room for radiators in the front), plus its $40 cheaper. However, I really like the back compartment of the 540 for the PSU, HDDs and thats a great place to put the pump. So I have to decide, water cooling and a much quieter system now (but a kinda funky lookin setup), or a sweet lookin case with great airflow, but still noisy while mining... Or, hell, if dogecoins really take off I might have enough to buy all of it soon!

 

[GTXJackBauer]

Well, I personally like the Corsair Air 540 because its newer than the fractal by design, way more room and way better air flow. The good thing about the Air 540 is it was made for both hardcore air cooling or custom watercooling. I've seen guys with 2 hot premium GPUs + CPU in that case running 24/7 with a triple radiator in front and dual up top. That's all it fits and all you need. I honestly would wait on the water cooling and just grab the Air 540. I almost forgot, I bet you your temps will get less with the increase of air flow from that new case which would possibly result in lower noise levels till you get enough funds to go all out on water cooling. I always advise people that want to jump into water cooling, its the easiest and always the best way to think about the case first and which to buy incase they choose down the road to jump into watercooling. More cases nowadays by design are becoming water cooling ready.

 

[Mandrake4565]

Well, I personally like the Corsair Air 540 because its newer than the fractal by design, way more room and way better air flow. The good thing about the Air 540 is it was made for both hardcore air cooling or custom watercooling. I've seen guys with 2 hot premium GPUs + CPU in that case running 24/7 with a triple radiator in front and dual up top. That's all it fits and all you need. I honestly would wait on the water cooling and just grab the Air 540. I almost forgot, I bet you your temps will get less with the increase of air flow from that new case which would possibly result in lower noise levels till you get enough funds to go all out on water cooling. I always advise people that want to jump into water cooling, its the easiest and always the best way to think about the case first and which to buy incase they choose down the road to jump into watercooling. More cases nowadays by design are becoming water cooling ready.

Very good point's Jack!

 

[Waza]

Air 540 is a case I've been looking at too but to me it looks a little bit small for push pull rads. If someone owns one I would love some measurements. I have gotten the impression that it is rather poor build quality case for the money with the missing filters and such.
Anyway the HAF stacker 935 is kind of appealing case for water cooling too and the price is pretty much same than the air 540.

 

[Mandrake4565]

Here's a build log of one.

 

[GTXJackBauer]

I also should add, I am not sure if its a good idea water cooling those 270 GPU(s). Don't think its worth the money spend on water cooling low end GPUs. Correct me if I am wrong but aren't the 270s basically 760s? Usually if you get a mid-end to high-end GPU(s) is than worth the added cost of water cooling. This just justifies it more to just get a better airflow case like the 540. Again, its all up to you.

 

[DerekPDX]

I also should add, I am not sure if its a good idea water cooling those 270 GPU(s). Don't think its worth the money spend on water cooling low end GPUs. Correct me if I am wrong but aren't the 270s basically 760s? Usually if you get a mid-end to high-end GPU(s) is than worth the added cost of water cooling. This just justifies it more to just get a better airflow case like the 540. Again, its all up to you.

I'm not totally familiar with Nvidia cards, but the 270s are similar to Radeon 7870s. And I know its not completely practical, but I use it for mining, and its also my work computer, and its also in a small 1 bedroom apartment. In other words it is constantly loud. More than anything at all, I am looking to just lower the volume on this thing.

 

[Clovett]

It woud be nice to see a picture of your setup. However if your concern is either a case or a second radiator maybe I can make a suggestion. Mount the second radiator on top of your unit with low speed fans. Mount it on standoffs that would allow you to vent the air from the first radiator to the side so you do not pull warm air into the second radiator. A slanted piece of metal should work. Make the outside radiator the last in your loop as it will receive all it's airflow from the coolest air.

It may not win a beauty contest but it would work.