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Honest answer about ATI for an Nvidia guy please
- Thread starter Lord Vader
- Start date
Of course they do. Good for us Nvidia users.
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2004
[..] because they are desperate to get companies to use their overinflated, proprietary, engine.
Computamer....didnt we fkgure out it was a different core all together?
Amnesua , physx has its place in a couple lf games. Mirrors edge and batman to name two (of a bunch). Physx isnt really special to me either. There are other engines like havok that accomplish amazingly similar functions. But due to Nvidia reportedly trying to block others by forcing the use of physx (which I understand they are a for profit business) and use PhysX, development has slowed it seems on that front. Thats good for nvidia users, yes, but not good for the gaming community as a whole.
Like so many others stated, choose your poison. Both camps have great cards that do great things. If you play a lot of hardware accelerated physx games or f@h, its a no brainer to go green. If not its best to look at all choices. So far I only see one potential fanboy in this thread...and its not me!
As far as 6870 beating a 560... I did state I 'believed' not that I was sure. You are welcome to provide a link to such benchmarks to support your thinking. Im mobile at the moment so I cant.
EDIT: I looked it up as you made me second guess that statement (which for the record was not fanboy based, but knowledge based...I wasnt sure hence the descriptor "believe"). Here is one link to a benchmark (first one i picked, have not checked others) that shows the 6870 beating the 560 in some tests (some 'handily') and in others, depending on the resolution and settings, sitting in the middle of it. It seems beating it handily was more of a blanket statement then it needed to be, but these tests should show the 6870 is as fast as (at minimum) the 560 (again NON ti and ti 448).
EDIT2: For the record, my preferences are actually Nvidia cards.. so says the 470, 560ti, 560ti 448, and 2 580's I own/owned. I reviewed several AMD cards and guess what, I have none of them. So an AMD fanboy clearly I am not.
Amnesua , physx has its place in a couple lf games. Mirrors edge and batman to name two (of a bunch). Physx isnt really special to me either. There are other engines like havok that accomplish amazingly similar functions. But due to Nvidia reportedly trying to block others by forcing the use of physx (which I understand they are a for profit business) and use PhysX, development has slowed it seems on that front. Thats good for nvidia users, yes, but not good for the gaming community as a whole.
Like so many others stated, choose your poison. Both camps have great cards that do great things. If you play a lot of hardware accelerated physx games or f@h, its a no brainer to go green. If not its best to look at all choices. So far I only see one potential fanboy in this thread...and its not me!
As far as 6870 beating a 560... I did state I 'believed' not that I was sure. You are welcome to provide a link to such benchmarks to support your thinking. Im mobile at the moment so I cant.
EDIT: I looked it up as you made me second guess that statement (which for the record was not fanboy based, but knowledge based...I wasnt sure hence the descriptor "believe"). Here is one link to a benchmark (first one i picked, have not checked others) that shows the 6870 beating the 560 in some tests (some 'handily') and in others, depending on the resolution and settings, sitting in the middle of it. It seems beating it handily was more of a blanket statement then it needed to be, but these tests should show the 6870 is as fast as (at minimum) the 560 (again NON ti and ti 448).
EDIT2: For the record, my preferences are actually Nvidia cards.. so says the 470, 560ti, 560ti 448, and 2 580's I own/owned. I reviewed several AMD cards and guess what, I have none of them. So an AMD fanboy clearly I am not.
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- Joined
- Jul 3, 2006
- Location
- UK
As far as I remember it goes: 6850 - 560 - 6870 - 560 Ti.
Earthdog, did you type this while drunk? There are an unusual amount of spelling errors in your post!
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2006
- Location
- UK
I was mobile
Lies.
Also you don't have to justify yourself to Amnesiac. Everyone has had a balanced viewpoint so far, omitting Amnesiac's somewhat overemotional (and incorrect) response.
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2009
Some time ago ATI drivers were really bad. i remember jumping in the AMD forums from time to time just to see loads of posts about which driver would be the best for certain games.
Many people wouldn't even upgrade because they just gave up on trying to make the latest versions to work. or fearing that they had to roll back drivers again to be stable.
my friend still has to roll back driver on his 5970 to play some games without crashing every 5 minutes. This doesn't mean everybody with an ATI card has this issue.
But i have always had Nvidia gpus, and in 10 years i never had 1 single problem with their drivers.
apart from some driver crashes when overclocking too much.
Many people wouldn't even upgrade because they just gave up on trying to make the latest versions to work. or fearing that they had to roll back drivers again to be stable.
my friend still has to roll back driver on his 5970 to play some games without crashing every 5 minutes. This doesn't mean everybody with an ATI card has this issue.
But i have always had Nvidia gpus, and in 10 years i never had 1 single problem with their drivers.
apart from some driver crashes when overclocking too much.
Incorrect. Ha AMD fanyboys (specially the guy who brought 7970 into this convo 
) atleast use your god given fleshy thing called brain. Go check Anand/WWW and decide. Start your new year with embarrassment. I damn care about 20$ difference. That just equates that you are poor and i am rich (and probably a snob ). Not that AMD is superior to Nvidia or Nvidia is superior to AMD. Just you are poor and AMD is for poor/IS targeting poor. and maybe the fact that Nvidia has the market in its pocket just like Intel. So they can price a bit higher. Just like EVGA is better than Sparkle toothpaste. Just like BFG, which once was a king. They gave something different and better so they can CHARGE the PREMIUM!.
Emotional?. Why not?. Earthdog being a respected senior member shouldn't lie like this. If he WANTS to attract a potential buyer towards AMD, then by all means do it properly and truthfully. Not by acting like... Yeah.
Handily should mean 10 FPS or AT THE LEAST, BARE MINIMUM 5 FPS. Go figure.
From METRO to Mafia2. PhysX it was. Still PhysX isn't the topic here. Its HD 6870 vs GTX 560.
Havok is for everyone. So no debate here. and i dont want any.
BTW If i was some big snobby company like WB or EA, making a title, i will gladly take the most money given to me by either Nvidia or AMD and Intel OR AMD to optimize the game for their hardware and 'shame' its not like AMD hasn't done this.
So my AMD friends... get off the bottle of Benzodiazepines.
Edit: Neural, I will love to see you prove me wrong. In that mean time try to be useful.
Edit 2: Price isn't my concern. So it can be 6850>GTS 250 for all i damn care.
) atleast use your god given fleshy thing called brain. Go check Anand/WWW and decide. Start your new year with embarrassment. I damn care about 20$ difference. That just equates that you are poor and i am rich (and probably a snob ). Not that AMD is superior to Nvidia or Nvidia is superior to AMD. Just you are poor and AMD is for poor/IS targeting poor. and maybe the fact that Nvidia has the market in its pocket just like Intel. So they can price a bit higher. Just like EVGA is better than Sparkle toothpaste. Just like BFG, which once was a king. They gave something different and better so they can CHARGE the PREMIUM!.Emotional?. Why not?. Earthdog being a respected senior member shouldn't lie like this. If he WANTS to attract a potential buyer towards AMD, then by all means do it properly and truthfully. Not by acting like... Yeah.
Handily should mean 10 FPS or AT THE LEAST, BARE MINIMUM 5 FPS. Go figure.
From METRO to Mafia2. PhysX it was. Still PhysX isn't the topic here. Its HD 6870 vs GTX 560.
Havok is for everyone. So no debate here. and i dont want any.
BTW If i was some big snobby company like WB or EA, making a title, i will gladly take the most money given to me by either Nvidia or AMD and Intel OR AMD to optimize the game for their hardware and 'shame' its not like AMD hasn't done this.
So my AMD friends... get off the bottle of Benzodiazepines.
Edit: Neural, I will love to see you prove me wrong. In that mean time try to be useful.
Edit 2: Price isn't my concern. So it can be 6850>GTS 250 for all i damn care.
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- Feb 17, 2010
- Location
- Manassas, VA
Incorrect. Ha AMD fanyboys (specially the guy who brought 7970 into this convo
AFAIK, the 7970 is out in less then two weeks, so I don't see how it isn't relevant...
I damn care about 20$ difference. That just equates that you are poor and i am rich (and probably a snob
I fail to see how this is relevant at all to the discussion.
As of last summer, market share was about 82% for Intel and 10% for AMD. I'd call that pretty dominating.
At the same time, AMD holds a 21.2% market share, with NVIDIA holding a 17.5% market share. That's pretty equal. (Note, this applies to market as a whole, custom and prebuilt, so Intel commands a nice 60% market share with SB's integrated graphics).
EVGA charges a premium because they offer five year or lifetime warranties, and AFAIK they keep all their customer support in house and not foreign. I'd say that they charge more because due to things like this, they have more upkeep costs that they need to cover.
Also, I haven't seen benchmarks, but I'd imagine that Sparkles top end card (which is an Accelero Xterme Plus II) would come pretty damn close, if not beat the similarly priced EVGA DS card.
We're not here to attract buyers to one side or the other. We're not salesmen, we're forum members. We're here to help and offer information and our opinion. And as far as I can tell, and I feel like the majority of people in this thread agree with me, that's all EarthDog was doing.
Again, he said he wasn't sure. And he mentioned after that handily was an overstatement after he looked at benchmarks. He called himself out on his mistake. No need to do it again.
Neither of those games got nearly as good reviews as Batman. But that's not even the point. Yes, Physx is very useful in those games. However, the large majority of games, including popular ones, do not support Physx. Also, while a propitiatory engine is better for the company, it is in no way better for the community. .
Obviously. It's called doing good business practices. But guess what, you're not EA.
And if I was a computer enthusiast and a gamer, I'd want everything to be open source so that all features are supported on all hardware, giving the power of choice to the consumer and making everything less complicated and more full featured, at no cost to the developer.
Shame on AMD for sacrificing profit for consumer interests.
Personal attacks aren't really necessary.
Consider yourself lucky then. The majority of people do care about the price.
Well this took a turn for the worse... Lets not get personal or this conversation will be ended pretty abruptly Im sure. The goal here is to help out the OP remember.
That said, I think the link I posted speaks for itself. Until there is compelling evidence posted to the contrary (Im not looking for something that disproves what I already posted).
Handily is a subjective term and it appears we disagree there a bit. I actually go by % as 5 fps more over 40 is different than 5 fps more over 140. So %, to me is more relevant. And a difference of almost 10% in GPU's which some of those tests show is a sound difference.
Hopefully the OP has a big picture of people's thoughts as he has plenty of great information here if you filter out the personal garbage that transpired. Lets bring it back on topic and civil.
That said, I think the link I posted speaks for itself. Until there is compelling evidence posted to the contrary (Im not looking for something that disproves what I already posted).
Handily is a subjective term and it appears we disagree there a bit. I actually go by % as 5 fps more over 40 is different than 5 fps more over 140. So %, to me is more relevant. And a difference of almost 10% in GPU's which some of those tests show is a sound difference.
Hopefully the OP has a big picture of people's thoughts as he has plenty of great information here if you filter out the personal garbage that transpired. Lets bring it back on topic and civil.
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- Aug 30, 2004
- Location
- Santa Barbara, CA
Chill out guy(s), the OP probably ran away after witnessing unnecessary arguments. This makes the forums look bad.
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2009
the purpouse of forums is to exchange knowledge and help. not to prove someone else is wrong. So if EarthDog was wrong you just needed to tell him in a constructive way.
Being arrogant doesn't help, and generally makes other people less likely to even listen to you.
This said
<.<
>.>
I am seeing a lot of faulty GTX500 cards in the nvidia forums lately.
(This depends largely on forum population though, but i remember much less "angry" posts about gt200 cards)
I would wait for next generation and see what the offerings are.
If you buy a newer gen card also you don't have to cut your wrists when 6-8 months after a newer version comes out which is generally just the same as the card before
(like a gtx280 vs a gtx285 difference wasn't that huge)
Being arrogant doesn't help, and generally makes other people less likely to even listen to you.
This said
<.<
>.>
I am seeing a lot of faulty GTX500 cards in the nvidia forums lately.
(This depends largely on forum population though, but i remember much less "angry" posts about gt200 cards)
I would wait for next generation and see what the offerings are.
If you buy a newer gen card also you don't have to cut your wrists when 6-8 months after a newer version comes out which is generally just the same as the card before
(like a gtx280 vs a gtx285 difference wasn't that huge)
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2002
- Location
- Indianapolis, IN
I'm not going to beat a dead horse here. Just get things back on track please.
Ok... tell me how it is?. Derailing the topic like a champ now?. He/You want the OP to buy the HD 6870 because 7970 is... coming out in less than 2 weeks
? 
Don't fail me bro.
Oh here he goes. Trying to unwind and stuffing the Caliber series in this already messy space.
To each his own.
Thankfully the community isn't made of you/likes of you.
Hell yeah. Thank You for pointing out the obvious. Don't Fail me, Bro!.
Waiting... for the harsh reality to sink in, Skin deep.
.The Hell?. Consumer interest my nuts. Its monopoly. Your cocoon is cosy my friend. Where can i get one?. You talk like you are an insider in AMD
.
You forgot Performance, feature set... and the Green Emblem
.MB, hey was just having a healthy conversation
. Nice of you to drop in. Want a cup of tea 
?.
OP
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2011
- Thread Starter
- #36
Ok, so now that I'm back and can get back on track, it looks like for the budget that I am looking to spend, I'm going to be primarily looking at the GTX 560, GTX 560 TI and the 6850.
I'm going to buy it within the next month. Right now I have no gaming rig and am buying it piece by piece. Case, PSU and RAM was this week. In two weeks will be mobo and CPU, then two weeks later will be GPU (already have HDD and DLDVDRW.
I'm a bit odd on my game selection choices. I will likely be playing no FPS games and will play games like SkyRim, Mass Effect, DeUs Ex, Bat-Man etc.... Essentially I have played on consoles for the last 10 years and after all the 360 issues and having my PS3 melt down on me two weeks ago and cost me $100 to repair, I'm tired of getting inferior games with crappy hardware from MicroSoft, Sony and Nintendo. So I'm going back to PC. Sure, I'll buy a next gen console but I'm choosing only one (mainly for Sports games) and waiting until it's been out a year or so.
I'll be using XBMC heavily too, which I know uses Nvidia specific accelerations (because I'm running now on an Atom/ION platform) but am not sure about AMD, however either of these beefy cards should be able to handle XBMC with no issue.
I'll be running an i5 2500K so I'm not too worried about any CPU limitations, just concerned with the GPU right now. The motherboard I'm getting can handle either CrossFire or SLI and I will probably do that when the cards get down to the $100 or under price range.
That's where my dilemma is right now. I was mainly concerned about buggy drivers with the Radeons because I know when they were ATI, they were awful but was hoping AMD straightened them out.
Sorry for being so long-winded.
I'm going to buy it within the next month. Right now I have no gaming rig and am buying it piece by piece. Case, PSU and RAM was this week. In two weeks will be mobo and CPU, then two weeks later will be GPU (already have HDD and DLDVDRW.
I'm a bit odd on my game selection choices. I will likely be playing no FPS games and will play games like SkyRim, Mass Effect, DeUs Ex, Bat-Man etc.... Essentially I have played on consoles for the last 10 years and after all the 360 issues and having my PS3 melt down on me two weeks ago and cost me $100 to repair, I'm tired of getting inferior games with crappy hardware from MicroSoft, Sony and Nintendo. So I'm going back to PC. Sure, I'll buy a next gen console but I'm choosing only one (mainly for Sports games) and waiting until it's been out a year or so.
I'll be using XBMC heavily too, which I know uses Nvidia specific accelerations (because I'm running now on an Atom/ION platform) but am not sure about AMD, however either of these beefy cards should be able to handle XBMC with no issue.
I'll be running an i5 2500K so I'm not too worried about any CPU limitations, just concerned with the GPU right now. The motherboard I'm getting can handle either CrossFire or SLI and I will probably do that when the cards get down to the $100 or under price range.
That's where my dilemma is right now. I was mainly concerned about buggy drivers with the Radeons because I know when they were ATI, they were awful but was hoping AMD straightened them out.
Sorry for being so long-winded.
OP
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2011
- Thread Starter
- #38
1920x1080 (is actually a 50" TV)
- Joined
- Dec 7, 2011
That's quite a price and performance spread, did you mean 6950?
6850 ~$120
560 ~$160
6950 1GB ~$200
560Ti ~$210
Give or take 10 bucks either way. 560Ti or 6950 will outperform a single 6850 by quite a bit.
Not to confuse you even further, but what Bobnova said is very correct. The bang for the buck of a dual 6850 setup is stellar as long as you're not planning on running more than 1920x1080 due to 1GB frame buffer. And they overclock like sprayed roaches. 580-level performance for little over 200 bucks. Same can be said for GTX460s. Big price drop probably in the near future for existing AMD cards due to 7xxx coming out.
+1
OP, 100$?. Isn't that too low?. or did you meant that you will buy the second card when it drops to 100$ mark?.
