How to mod a Heatercore (Dual 120mm version)

[weapon]

that makes sense for a single core system. What do you think for a dually? i'll be using a big dog pump like that RLQO

provided the pump can hack it, I would expect slightly better temps out of dual 302s due to about 12% more surface area that dual 342s.

take some care in selecting your pump for a loops with dual 302s - you need a good amount of flow and head but you have to keep an eye on the amount of heat the pump dumps into the water or you will end up with higher water temps than a single with a decent pump.

 

[em00guy]

provided the pump can hack it, I would expect slightly better temps out of dual 302s due to about 12% more surface area that dual 342s.

take some care in selecting your pump for a loops with dual 302s - you need a good amount of flow and head but you have to keep an eye on the amount of heat the pump dumps into the water or you will end up with higher water temps than a single with a decent pump.

Excellent point. I've been looking around the forums and there is losts of info on the ehiems and dd's but I cant seem to find much on big powerful pumps. What do you reccomend on the 13' head range. People keep mentioning iwaki's but no model #'s.

 

[br408408]

I have a question about using a 302 core with an Eheim 1048 (not the best pump, I know, but I bought it some time ago, and want to use it if I can). Should I mod the 302 to single pass? I will be used with a Swiftech MCW6000-P waterblock. Also, I will only be watercooling the CPU, not the GPU or NB.

Thanks, Bill

 

[Osirus]

My question is this.

I have a Ehiem 1250 pump, 2-302, DD TDX, DD GPU, DD Res. I want to possibley run dual 2-302, is it possible to run 1 2-302 into the CPU, and 1 2-302 into the GPU? and back into the res and then to the pump. or something to that affect.

 

[em00guy]

My question is this.

I have a Ehiem 1250 pump, 2-302, DD TDX, DD GPU, DD Res. I want to possibley run dual 2-302, is it possible to run 1 2-302 into the CPU, and 1 2-302 into the GPU? and back into the res and then to the pump. or something to that affect.

thats a good idea It would increase the delta on each block Although you're halving your flowrate so i'd use 2-342's. It's worth an experiment or two

 

[em00guy]

I have a question about using a 302 core with an Eheim 1048 (not the best pump, I know, but I bought it some time ago, and want to use it if I can). Should I mod the 302 to single pass? I will be used with a Swiftech MCW6000-P waterblock. Also, I will only be watercooling the CPU, not the GPU or NB.

Thanks, Bill

Why not just use a 2-342. it's anly a few bucks at autozone?

 

[br408408]

Will 2 120mm fans fit on it?

 

[em00guy]

Will 2 120mm fans fit on it?

Oh yeah! It has about 94% of the 302 surface area according to weapon. I't looks just like the 302 except it is single pass so the hoses are on opposite ends.

 

[weapon]

I have a question about using a 302 core with an Eheim 1048 (not the best pump, I know, but I bought it some time ago, and want to use it if I can). Should I mod the 302 to single pass? I will be used with a Swiftech MCW6000-P waterblock. Also, I will only be watercooling the CPU, not the GPU or NB.

Thanks, Bill

the 1048 is rated for 158gph with max head of 4'11'' - I haven't played around with the 6000-p as of yet but from what I have gathered from here and there, it is a somewhat restrictive block. I think I would try to upgrade my pump to at least a 1250 for that block regardless of the heatercore model.

My question is this.

I have a Ehiem 1250 pump, 2-302, DD TDX, DD GPU, DD Res. I want to possibley run dual 2-302, is it possible to run 1 2-302 into the CPU, and 1 2-302 into the GPU? and back into the res and then to the pump. or something to that affect.

I would test it against a single loop with dual 302s in a standard parallel heatercore setup. the 1250 is rated at 317gph with max delivery head of 6'7'' - the TDX is not a mega restrictive block, which GPU block are you using?

If the GPU side is more restrictive than the CPU, or the other way around, whichever side has less resistance will get more flow. If you route the flow like this: res -> pump -> wye splitter -> dual cores in parallel -> wye splitter to get back to a single tube -> CPU ->GPU -> res
your results on the gpu and cpu would likely be much more balanced.

also, the parallel setup should make things a little easier on your 1250...

converting the 302 to dual-sided, single pass is not a walk in the park mod. The bottom tank is fairly shallow on most of them and it requires some fairly precise drilling and torch work. The 342 route would be MUCH easier.

That being said, a dual-sided, single pass 302 is a rather interesting creature if nothing else.

Will 2 120mm fans fit on it?

dual 120s will fit on the 342 but it is a bit of a tight fit on the length -- it can be done though.

Oh yeah! It has about 94% of the 302 surface area according to weapon. I't looks just like the 302 except it is single pass so the hoses are on opposite ends.

the 302 is longer and not as wide than the 342. the 342 core has almost identical dimensions as the 2-199 ('77 b'ville w/o ac heatercore).

 

[br408408]

Thanks for the info, weapon, you're the man. I think I will mod my 302 for single pass as I have made a shroud for it, and the 342 is not the same size as far as it can tell. If someone can post the size of the 342, that would be great . I have worked with metal (and am a good welder) all my life....drag bikes, race and hot street cars, so modding the core is not a problem.

You are right, weapon, my MCW6000 is somewhat restrictive so I fear I will need a better pump. I am open for suggestions. Along with good flow and pressure, being quiet and reliable would be important to me.

Thanks to everyone, and weapon for your help,
Bill


Edit: I know that the core must be soldered and not welded

 

[Osirus]

Weapon - I am using the Danger Den MAZE4 nvidia block. is there any real differnce in making a dual HC setup, over the setup I have now? Rig is in Sig.

Sorry for my confusion, but Parrellel and Series are kinda confusing to me, can you explain? I think I know what is what, but I want to make sure.

 

[weapon]

*grabs lightly modded 342 and measuring tape*

the core area is right at 9 3/8" long x 6 1/8"
overall dimensions with the tanks - length 11 1/8" x 6 1/8"

for comparison:
Fedco 2-199 (aka '77 b'ville w/o ac):
the core area is 9 3/8" x 6 1/16" (an odd core I suppose - it is a bit smaller than usual)
overall: 10 3/4" x 6 1/16"

Fedco 2-302 ('77 b'ville w/ac):
core area: 10 3/4" x 5 5/8" x 2"
overall: 12 1/2" x 5 5/8" x 2"

hmmm...both of the first 2 (the 342 and the 199) are a tiny bit smaller than the last ones I had of the same models. normal minor variations I suppose - none of these suckers are cranked out on NASA spec'd equipment...interestingly, the 302 is right on the money.

measure closely before cutting anything.

note on pumps - my personal preference is the old design of the rainbow lifeguard quiet one. it is rated at 1140gph @ 0' head. It uses an isolated wet rotor design which helps tame down any heat dumping and it is very quiet. if you can find one, they are normally in the $100 range (and worth every penny).

Weapon - I am using the Danger Den MAZE4 nvidia block. is there any real differnce in making a dual HC setup, over the setup I have now? Rig is in Sig.

Sorry for my confusion, but Parrellel and Series are kinda confusing to me, can you explain? I think I know what is what, but I want to make sure.

serial HCs would be like this:
res -> pump-> core #1 -> core #2 -> CPU -> GPU -> back to res
or:
res -> pump -> core#1 -> CPU -> core #2 -> GPU -> back to res
or
basically any variation that has the loop moving flow in one direction down a single tube that runs from one component to the next component.

a parallel core setup is different in that in one section of the loop, you have 2 lanes of water traffic so to speak.
res -> pump -> 1st wye fitting (flow splitter) -> [one tube to inlet of HC#1, one tube to inlet of HC#2] -> [outlet tube from HC#1, outlet tube from HC#2] -> wye fitting #2 [back to a single tube now]-> cpu -> gpu -> back to res.
at the 1st wye fitting, the tubing splits and you go from one 1/2" ID tubing (or whatever size you are using) to two 1/2" ID tubes. Each of those tubes carries waterflow to the inlet of either of the 2 heatercores - water passes thru the cores and exits through the outlet fittings of either core then thru a short section of tubing where it meets another wye fitting that merges the 2 tubes (from the outlets of the cores) back into a single tube that then hops thru the rest of the components in the loop.

basically, with serial HCs you have to push all the water thru both cores in single file whereas with parallel, you split the flow and 1/2 the water moves thru either core at that section in the loop (hence, less flow resistance)

a pic would have made that a lot easier to understand I suppose...

 

[br408408]

*grabs lightly modded 342 and measuring tape*

the core area is right at 9 3/8" long x 6 1/8"
overall dimensions with the tanks - length 11 1/8" x 6 1/8"

for comparison:
Fedco 2-199 (aka '77 b'ville w/o ac):
the core area is 9 3/8" x 6 1/16" (an odd core I suppose - it is a bit smaller than usual)
overall: 10 3/4" x 6 1/16"

Fedco 2-302 ('77 b'ville w/ac):
core area: 10 3/4" x 5 5/8" x 2"
overall: 12 1/2" x 5 5/8" x 2"

hmmm...both of the first 2 (the 342 and the 199) are a tiny bit smaller than the last ones I had of the same models. normal minor variations I suppose - none of these suckers are cranked out on NASA spec'd equipment...interestingly, the 302 is right on the money.

measure closely before cutting anything.

note on pumps - my personal preference is the old design of the rainbow lifeguard quiet one. it is rated at 1140gph @ 0' head. It uses an isolated wet rotor design which helps tame down any heat dumping and it is very quiet. if you can find one, they are normally in the $100 range (and worth every penny)

Thanks again for the info, weapon. When I am done modding my 302, I will post photos. Also, as a side note, I am adding a fitting to the end of tank, not the side, as the core will not be mounted in my case, but in a external setup.

 

[2Busy]

Possible 4 x 92mm setup not push pull

Weapon,

I have just acquired a Netifinity Cube Server case I want to w/c and mod. The front bays where the hot swap scsi drives were measure approximately 9 x 9.5 inches. Looking through the core database I see a 2-678 Taurus core that measures 7.75 x 7.375. I think it would be possible to get 4 92mm fans on this jewel in this case without much effort. However, I do not know anything about this core. Can you shed some light on it, or one in the same size range? If I work this size I can keep the core at the front of the case for best airflow.

UPDATE: Found a pic of this core, but tube placement is wrong. It runs straight up out of the core, making it parallel to the core. However, I found another one that the placement is correct. A Fedco 2-56 which is 8 x 7.75 x 2 with the ports running at a right angle out. Fits a 75-87 Econoline.

 

[weapon]

Weapon,

I have just acquired a Netifinity Cube Server case I want to w/c and mod. The front bays where the hot swap scsi drives were measure approximately 9 x 9.5 inches. Looking through the core database I see a 2-678 Taurus core that measures 7.75 x 7.375. I think it would be possible to get 4 92mm fans on this jewel in this case without much effort. However, I do not know anything about this core. Can you shed some light on it, or one in the same size range? If I work this size I can keep the core at the front of the case for best airflow.

UPDATE: Found a pic of this core, but tube placement is wrong. It runs straight up out of the core, making it parallel to the core. However, I found another one that the placement is correct. A Fedco 2-56 which is 8 x 7.75 x 2 with the ports running at a right angle out. Fits a 75-87 Econoline.

well, you have 9" x 9.5" available but what about thickness? a core + shroud + fans normally runs at about 5" - 6" thick. also, since you listed that as the space available, I will work under the idea that the entire core (including tanks has to fit into that space.

anyway, if the tubes are the only problem, they could be sealed and rerouted but I doubt I'd go to that level of effort when others would likely fit without having to seal holes and then drill new ones.

too bad it isn't 10 11/16" x 6 1/8" -- if it were, one of the '77 b'villes without ac would fit. speaking of squeezing cores into close areas, you realize that the dimensions that are listed on 90% + of the heater core sites are just for the core area (which doesn't include the extra room the tanks take up. i.e. a heatercore website lists the '77 b'ville w/o ac as being 9 1/2" x 6 1/8" x 2" but that is just the finned core area - the actual dimensions for the length slightly over one inch longer at 10 11/16" when you include the tanks). the top and bottom tanks usually add somewhere around 1 1/8" to the length of the dimensions they provide but sometimes it can be as much as +2"

watch out for newer model cars - alot of them use aluminum cores that will cause majorly bad juju in a loop with a copper waterblock.

before going with any core that is close to the space you have available (esp with a not-so-often used model) try to track one down locally that you can go and look at up close and personal...and take a measuring tape.

check these 2 as they are close -
GDI number (any store should be able to use these #s now), model, inlet and outlet sizes + core dimensions:

398247 - '84 ford bronco with ac - 5/8" inlet and outlet, 7 3/4" x 7 1/4" x 2"
add the usual 1.25" to the length for a close estimate for what it would be with the tanks.

399006 - '84 ford econoline E150, stnd output heater, w/ac - 5/8" inlet and outlet, 8" x 7 3/4" x 2"
^ also used on the '84 econoline club wagon w/ac

edit - jumping to GM stuff for a few:
399070 - '80 chevy blazer without ac -- 8 1/4 x 7 x 2
398229 - '68 chevy chevelle SS w/o ac -- 9 1/2 x 6 3/8 x 2
399075 - '80 chevy monza - 7 1/8 x 5 1/2 x 2
399092 - '80 chevy monte carlo 8 1/4 x 7 x 2

 

[2Busy]

well, you have 9" x 9.5" available but what about thickness? a core + shroud + fans normally runs at about 5" - 6" thick. also, since you listed that as the space available, I will work under the idea that the entire core (including tanks has to fit into that space.

The depth would run the full depth of the case at that dimension, which is approximately 24 inches. So, depth is no problem. I had intended mounting a res behind it and the pump as well. The upper half of the case in the back has a slide out motherboard tray, and i was going to pull the water lines up to it. As you can see, this is a 9 ro so inch rise. The drives all fit in the upper half as well, along with the psu. I have even contemplated putting a 700va ups in the other side of the lower half.
Here is a picture of the case. You can see the area I am referring to in the lower right, where the scsi drives used to be.
I am aware of the late model issue with aluminum , and the metro area I live in should hopefully have an abundant supply to look at.

Another option I have considered, but not ruled out, is a side entrance along that right side, and a core could be almost 9 or so wide and any length and lay it on its side. This would still leave 9 inches depth for fans, shroud and a means to duct the warmed air back out withouf interfering with any other items.
I had already stumbled across the Econoline model, will check into the Bronco unit as well.

 

[br408408]

Here are some pics of my 2-302 just modded to single pass. I posted them under cooling and not water cooling by mistake

Bill

 

[Kilyin]

Here are some pics of my 2-302 just modded to single pass. I posted them under cooling and not water cooling by mistake

Bill

Someone needs to sticky this thread.

 

[weapon]

pic of the three cores that are mentioned several times in this thread - they are in various stages of completion --

the black one that is in the foreground is a 2-342 ('70 chevy c10 truck, single pass) - it has flat side panels soldered onto it, a shroud for dual 120s, slight extensions to the factory pipes and brass barbs along with several coats of black gloss.

the second one back is a 2-199 ('77 b'ville without ac - dual pass) - it has had the factory tubes cut down, deburred and polished, flat copper side panels silver soldered onto the core and it is about to go to the paint room.

the one in the back is a 2-302 ('77 bonneville with ac - dual pass) - it has had the factory tubes removed and 1/2" brass barbs soldered in place. I am going to add a different type of side panel to that one - they will be made of thicker metal and they will likely be steel as I have figured out a decent way to solidly attach it to the cores and it improves the strength of the core quite a bit.

 

[weapon]

Fully Enclosed Top Mount

I thought I had already added this one but it appears that I did not --
this one is a fully enclosed core with an internal venturi shroud attached to the outer enclosure - it was made so that it could be top mounted on a case. The outer shell is 22 gauge:

http://pages.suddenlink.net/weapon/images/gallarszd2.jpg

not an easy one to make.