Is there a radiator with a higher fin density of 16 FPI commercially available?

[GenkiM]

I've been looking for water cooling radiators with the highest fin density I can find.

So far the highest fin density I've found is 16 FPI http://hardwarelabs.com/nemesis/gtr/gtr-240/

Are there radiators with a higher fin density?

EDIT: Just found these (18 FPI). Looks like this is probably the upper limit of fin density for water cooling? http://hardwarelabs.com/blackice/alpha/xtreme-ii/

 

[GTXJackBauer]

Black Ice's non-Nemesis GTX line is 20 FPI and GTS line is 30 FPI as well as Koolance rads who also are 30 FPI. Just know you'll need some higher than average RPM fans for those (2200-3000+ RPM range) as they'll obviously be very audible if noise isn't an issue for you.

Not sure if you're aware but most custom liquid coolers like lower FPI for lower audibles but the trade of is, adding more radiator.

 

[GenkiM]

Black Ice's non-Nemesis GTX line is 20 FPI and GTS line is 30 FPI as well as Koolance rads who also are 30 FPI. Just know you'll need some higher than average RPM fans for those (2200-3000+ RPM range) as they'll obviously be very audible if noise isn't an issue for you.

Not sure if you're aware but most custom liquid coolers like lower FPI for lower audibles but the trade of is, adding more radiator.

Thanks, I had no idea dpi went that high.

The reason I ask is I've got some industrial high pressure fans here that I bought on eBay quite a few years ago and I thought I might try and put them to use. They have massive static pressure.

There the old version of these https://www.sanyodenki.com/news/newslist/20140919_SanAce120L_9lg.html they have aluminium frames so I'm thinking the fan frames themselves might actually work as an extra kind of heat sink.

Although to be honest I'm more about silent computing so, not sure if that's a good way for me to go, I've just had these things hanging around for so long and I feel a bit ocd about trying to put them to use.

 

[EarthDog]

They will not work as a heatsink.

That isn't very high static pressure. Here is an ek varder, for example: https://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-vardar-f3-120-1850rpm

Sell those and grab the varders if you want static pressure and less noise.

 

[GTXJackBauer]

30 FPI rads were the norm back 10-15 years ago or so. Everyone loves liquid cooling temps and low audibles nowadays. What you're basically building up is the complete opposite of that but if you want to use those screamers, by all means have at it, just don't catch a finger near those spinning blades as I would highly recommend a fan grill.

If you're looking for low audible liquid cooling that most do in this day n age, I would highly recommend 8-16 FPI at the most. The lower the FPI, the lower the fan speed, the quieter the audibles. Of course if you're looking for great delta's, you'll need more heat surface on an efficient flowing loop.

As Earthdog points out, make sure you pay attention to static pressure and not CFM. CFM is usually used for air flow in general. Static pressure is measured to go through things like a radiator. All dependent on blade designs, etc.

 

[Alaric]

Noctua has some nice, high pressure fans. And they aren't that God-awful brown. http://www.performance-pcs.com/noctua-nf-a14-industrialppc-3000-pwm-140mm-fan.html#Specifications

 

[GenkiM]

They will not work as a heatsink.

That isn't very high static pressure. Here is an ek varder, for example: https://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-vardar-f3-120-1850rpm

Sell those and grab the varders if you want static pressure and less noise.

Thanks for responding

I thought the SanyoDenki's might add to the cooling capacity due to them having a metal frame, but after reading these responses I guess I'm just not going to be using them anyway, so yeah, I'll probably put them on eBay.

30 FPI rads were the norm back 10-15 years ago or so. Everyone loves liquid cooling temps and low audibles nowadays. What you're basically building up is the complete opposite of that but if you want to use those screamers, by all means have at it, just don't catch a finger near those spinning blades as I would highly recommend a fan grill.

If you're looking for low audible liquid cooling that most do in this day n age, I would highly recommend 8-16 FPI at the most. The lower the FPI, the lower the fan speed, the quieter the audibles. Of course if you're looking for great delta's, you'll need more heat surface on an efficient flowing loop.

As Earthdog points out, make sure you pay attention to static pressure and not CFM. CFM is usually used for air flow in general. Static pressure is measured to go through things like a radiator. All dependent on blade designs, etc.

Thanks, I'm probably going to be upgrading to a separate pump and reservoir but I'm going to be doing it incrementally because of the cost, and so that I can monitor the performance increase. If I can get my 4790k to its maximum performance using an Eisbaer I'll probably just stick with the Eisbaer, but something tells me my 4790k has a lot more left in the tank, especially with my motherboard and PSU setup. They're super stable and my overclock just seems to be thermally limited.

But yeah, having read this thread I'll just stick those fans on eBay. I bought them years ago when I used to be a bit obsessed with efficient air cooling. They're also so out of date that I can't even find the specs for the particular model number I have. :/

Having said that I have a closed loop on my GTX 970 that I fitted a few years ago and I might try them with that to see what difference they might make.

Noctua has some nice, high pressure fans. And they aren't that God-awful brown. http://www.performance-pcs.com/noctua-nf-a14-industrialppc-3000-pwm-140mm-fan.html#Specifications

So is pressure definitely preferable to airflow for 16 fpi rads?

I was thinking of using Aerocool Dead Silence 140mm as they seem to even outperform the 140mm Varders at a much slower speed:


EK-Vardar EVO 140S BB (500-1150rpm)

- Noise Level: 26 dBA (100% PWM)
- Max Air Flow: 64 CFM = 109 m³/h
- Static Pressure: 1.08mm H₂O


Aerocool Dead Silence 140mm (1000rpm)

- Noise Level: 14.2dBA at full speed (3-pin fan / no PWM circuit)
- Max Air Flow: 64.8 CFM = 109.8 m³/h
- Static Pressure: 1.21 mm H₂O


Noctua NF-A14 industrialppc-2000 PWM (500-2000rpm)

- Noise Level: 31.5dBA (100% PWM)
- Max Air Flow: 107.4 CFM
- Static Pressure: 4.18 mm H₂O


I know it probably doesn't scale linearly but a rule of thumb I use to get a general figure for efficiency, is to divide either CFM or Static pressure by dBA.

Which of these three fans do you guys think would be better for a 16 fpi rad?


EK-Vardar EVO 140S BB (500-1150rpm)

dBA at 100% speed: 26
2.4615 CFM per dBA
0.0415 mm H₂O per dBA


Aerocool Dead Silence 140mm (1000rpm)

dBA at 100% speed: 14.2
4.563 CFM per dBA
0.0852 mm H₂O per dBA


Noctua NF-A14 industrialppc-2000 PWM (500-2000rpm)

dBA at 100% speed: 31.5
3.45893 CFM per dBA
0.13462 mm H₂O per dBA


At 16 fpi is it really necessary to favour static pressure, if it means extra noise?

The product page on the Hardware Labs site for the Nemesis GTS 280 X-Flow rad states that it's "...optimized for sub-800 rpm ultra-stealth fans"

I'm tempted to go with the 140mm Aerocool Dead Silence fans.

EDIT: Although there are reports that Aerocool Dead Silence fans can't be mounted horizontally without creating much more noise and that mounting them horizontally can cause the bearings to fail. I'm not sure as to the veracity of that information but that is out there.

 

[EarthDog]

The cheapest ones. Any will do, honestly. The difference between them really wont be that much.

 

[GTXJackBauer]

Judging by your links to 120mm radiators, you'll want to match that up with 120mm fans, not 140mms.

In general you favor static pressure when you're using the fan for a radiator.

Yes, I'd say 16 FPI is probably the max you can go with low running fans but obviously the higher RPMs which increases the static pressure, the better it will be. I'm guessing they must've done some type of testing to design it that way.

I personally like their SR series. I have their SR-1s, 120.9 worth of rad but if there was data showing that you can run them low and get better performance with 16 FPI, I'd probably go with those but I'm happy with SRs. Designed for quiet setups but can ramp them up if need is there.

With today's premium rad fans, they could push lots of air in the higher ups while keeping the audibles low but it does come at a premium price.

I would personally go with either the Noctua or the Vardar. The Noctua looks like the strongest contender there. Actually, they have a newer fan out that's a bit costly but apparently pushes a lot of air at low audibles. It gives the AP-15s (King of the hill for rad fans for many years) a run for their money. It looks like it beats it slightly in the higher RPMs for audibles at around 6 dbs which is a substantial number. My only problem is with the HIDEOUS color design. I wish they just made a black version. lol

I'm not doubting they are great rad fans but would like to see a 2nd review if I were to purchase a $30 rad fan to replace all but that's just me.

 

[GenkiM]

The cheapest ones. Any will do, honestly. The difference between them really wont be that much.

Judging by your links to 120mm radiators, you'll want to match that up with 120mm fans, not 140mms....

Thanks for responding.

I would personally go with either the Noctua or the Vardar. The Noctua looks like the strongest contender there. Actually, they have a newer fan out that's a bit costly but apparently pushes a lot of air at low audibles. It gives the AP-15s (King of the hill for rad fans for many years) a run for their money. It looks like it beats it slightly in the higher RPMs for audibles at around 6 dbs which is a substantial number. My only problem is with the HIDEOUS color design. I wish they just made a black version. lol

I'm not doubting they are great rad fans but would like to see a 2nd review if I were to purchase a $30 rad fan to replace all but that's just me.

You don't like the Aerocools? I'm tempted to use them because of the specs.


I did look at those Noctuas, but they still don't beat my Akasa Vipers in terms of efficiency. The Noctua Industrial fans have the Vipers beaten on static pressure but I'm not convinced I really need that much static pressure, nor do I really want to sacrifice low audibles for static pressure gain.

And yeah, I'm stuck with GTS 280 X-flows because my case is really limiting in terms of space.

Also, yeah, sorry about that, I switched from talking about the 120mm rad to thinking about the fans on my 280mm's

 

[maxfly]

the noctua nfa 140s are virtually silent at 1000rpm and they still outperform most fans h2o ratings at that speed. you want to go with pwm fans if possible so that you can set up a nice quiet fan curve regardless. like Jack said you want to have some rpms left to crank up for gaming/ocing/testing etc... the noctuas are perfect for just that.
i dont trust aerocool any more. i have 3 or 4 140s sitting in my fan box that i bought exclusively for exhaust fans based on the cfm to dba ratings they claimed. and i have been disappointed in all of them in that they are way louder than they claim. they all push a good amount of air but they are all loud as hell. sadly none of mine are pwm so they are collecting dust while i ride out the noctuas
if your not concerned with static pressure ratings and want to start off on the cheap go with yate loons 140mm fans. they are usually $5-6 and they move a decent amount of air but they dont provide a h2o rating(i think ocf did a review with a yl fan in it, ill try to find it). ive used them in numerous builds. they have 3 types- low/med/high but i dont think they have pwm. so if you go that route you may want a fan controller for them.

edit- noctua has a slew of 140mm fans at all different speeds. some are even black! industrial/chromax/redux. sry i cant find the yl review
https://noctua.at/en/products/fan

 

[Alaric]

The specs on these are the best I could find for static pressure vs. noise level. NF-A14 INDUSTRIALPPC-3000 PWM



Nice 6 year warranty, too.

 

[GenkiM]

the noctua nfa 140s are virtually silent at 1000rpm and they still outperform most fans h2o ratings at that speed. you want to go with pwm fans if possible so that you can set up a nice quiet fan curve regardless. like Jack said you want to have some rpms left to crank up for gaming/ocing/testing etc... the noctuas are perfect for just that.
i dont trust aerocool any more. i have 3 or 4 140s sitting in my fan box that i bought exclusively for exhaust fans based on the cfm to dba ratings they claimed. and i have been disappointed in all of them in that they are way louder than they claim. they all push a good amount of air but they are all loud as hell. sadly none of mine are pwm so they are collecting dust while i ride out the noctuas
if your not concerned with static pressure ratings and want to start off on the cheap go with yate loons 140mm fans. they are usually $5-6 and they move a decent amount of air but they dont provide a h2o rating(i think ocf did a review with a yl fan in it, ill try to find it). ive used them in numerous builds. they have 3 types- low/med/high but i dont think they have pwm. so if you go that route you may want a fan controller for them.

edit- noctua has a slew of 140mm fans at all different speeds. some are even black! industrial/chromax/redux. sry i cant find the yl review
https://noctua.at/en/products/fan

Thanks so much for responding

I found a pressure test for the Yate loons, although the tester says his equipment isn't that great. Still yielded a comparison however: https://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/cases_cooling/yate_loon_d12sl-12_120mm_case_fan_review/5

As for static pressure, I'm not sure if I should be concerned or not?

The radiators I'm going to be using say they're "...optimized sub-800 rpm ultra-stealth fans"?

Based on that statement I'm thinking I can prioritise low audibles over static pressure?

I have a single 140mm Dead Silence on its way to me, to test on my current radiator. I did have one a few years ago and I remember not being pleased with the sound quality, but I can't remember if that turned out to be down to having it in pull through the plexi on my side panel, which makes more or less all silent/stealth fans wail like sirens. :/

I am using 120mm Dead Silence fans in my daily general use p.c. via a noise limiter run from a molex. I've split all three of them off of the noise limiter so that they're running super-slow and they're inaudible and still pushing lots of air. I have two 140mm Akasa Viper R's in the floor of my PC case controlled by PWM to pick up the slack for hotter days, but found an independent test that challenges the noise claims that Akasa make about their fans, so, probably going to be swapping out at least my square-framed vipers, when I can.

The specs on these are the best I could find for static pressure vs. noise level. NF-A14 INDUSTRIALPPC-3000 PWM

Nice 6 year warranty, too.

Thanks

I've put those on my short-list. Probably going to run some searches to find out how quiet they are at low speed. But the more I look at this stuff I'm actually tempted to go with the Vardars.