MB 'Fails' after new CPU

[morgueuk]

Hi Guys,

I am a complete layperson when it comes to PC's but wanted to ask a question I am sure you will all be able to answer.

I had a noisy fan in my PC, which was custom built for me a few years ago. It was a top spec build at the the time, and other than the fan starting to buzz a bit, it was perfectly fast etc.

I decided to fix the fan and called a local PC repair guy who came out to review the fan- call out fee was 150quid - he said the fan in the CPU was the culprit and gave me a link to buy a new CPU about 60quid. He came back to install it - 100quid, but it took him a good couple of hours as the PC kept shorting when he did the install - he was bemused, calling his co-workers etc, but eventually he seemed to crack it.

A couple of weeks later, I switch on my PC, doesn't boot. Monitor goes through some cycles, keyboard lights up, mouse lights up, and then monitor goes through some cycles etc...and it keeps on this same loop.

I call the guy back out - he spends another 2 hours, playing in the BIOS, calling co-workers etc, before declaring the Mother Board is the problem. I ask if its related to CPU install, he says 'NO', just a coincidence that it failed at the same time.

He gives me the link to buy another MB and a quote of 200 quid to install it.

So my question is, did the CPU damage the MB? is it a coincidence, can anything be done? etc

I have a feeling fixing a noisy fan is going to set me back a new PC :/

Thanks!

 

[Sentential]

Hi Guys,

I am a complete layperson when it comes to PC's but wanted to ask a question I am sure you will all be able to answer.

I had a noisy fan in my PC, which was custom built for me a few years ago. It was a top spec build at the the time, and other than the fan starting to buzz a bit, it was perfectly fast etc.

I decided to fix the fan and called a local PC repair guy who came out to review the fan- call out fee was 150quid - he said the fan in the CPU was the culprit and gave me a link to buy a new CPU about 60quid. He came back to install it - 100quid, but it took him a good couple of hours as the PC kept shorting when he did the install - he was bemused, calling his co-workers etc, but eventually he seemed to crack it.

A couple of weeks later, I switch on my PC, doesn't boot. Monitor goes through some cycles, keyboard lights up, mouse lights up, and then monitor goes through some cycles etc...and it keeps on this same loop.

I call the guy back out - he spends another 2 hours, playing in the BIOS, calling co-workers etc, before declaring the Mother Board is the problem. I ask if its related to CPU install, he says 'NO', just a coincidence that it failed at the same time.

He gives me the link to buy another MB and a quote of 200 quid to install it.

So my question is, did the CPU damage the MB? is it a coincidence, can anything be done? etc

I have a feeling fixing a noisy fan is going to set me back a new PC :/

Thanks!

Ok I'll try breaking this down so I apologize in advance. First the CPU itself doesn't have a fan per say but rather there is a HSF (heat-sink-fan combo) that is bolted on top of it. That fan is *maybe* $5-$10 and is removable and replaceable along with the rest of the HSF. Assuming the fan just needed to be cleaned $60 seems pretty steep for a new HSF even ones we use regularly.

When you say the PC was shorting out what exactly do you mean by that? There shouldn't be a "short" as the motherboard the CPU is socketed to is grounded to the computer chassis by a series of metal risers (washers).

The PC not booting could be a couple of thing, it could honestly be a bad motherboard, it could be a faulty power supply it could be both, hard to say. Anything that would prevent the PC from completing POST (power-on-self-test) could do it. Normally during POST you would hear a series of error codes much like a check engine light or an OBDII code from a car. These codes are more or less universal and can help diagnose what component is at fault. If you aren't hearing that either the speaker wasn't installed or it is the power supply which is preventing the codes from being audible, or it could be nothing, again hard to say.

You mention he was able to play with the BIOS? Are we sure? Because if he is able to access BIOS/UEFI then the motherboard is not at fault and that points to a Hard Drive failure. If the motherboard was faulty it would not POST.

Could it be related to the CPU install? Maybe, probably not. Assuming you have an LGA (Land-Grid-Array) and not a PGA (Pin-Grid-Array) if he reinstalled the CPU he could have bent a pin on the motherboard assuming it is an LGA. But then again you'd either show RAM issues or flat out no POST.

A noisy fan should be a $20 fix as most of the time it's just dust or it's rubbing against something. Worst case you're looking at replacing the HSF and that shouldn't have been $60 unless he's including labor which shouldn't take more than a minute or two. I've disassembled laptops completely and it not taken more than 20mins to do. To me it sounds more that the OS boot is looping which would be more in lines of data loss or corruption and not a hardware component.

That said I guess the first thing is what exactly do you have? There's more or less a process to fixing things like this and it normally goes:

Installation -> Power -> Cooling -> Hardware? -> Software

So what you'd need to start with is to make sure everything is installed and hasn't come loose or dislodged. Next you'd want to look and make sure each piece of equipment is receiving adequate power. After that you want to make sure everything that needs to be cooled is and is installed correctly. From there you break down individual hardware components starting with ones that are easily knocked out of place or removable like RAM, Graphics cards and hard drives. Lastly if all else fails it's the software or something that has caused the software to either become damaged or corrupt, things like: Viruses, HDD failure, RAM failure (normally one stick not multiple) etc.

 

[morgueuk]

Thanks Sentential,

Some further info:

He did try to remove the fan but couldn't. The Power Supply was working fine, just the fun seemed to be rubbing on the side making the rattling sound.

By shorting I mean, once he'd done the install, he switched the PC on, the fans came on etc for 1 second and it lost power/ switched off.

I forgot to say, that before the complete failure to boot a few times I got it to boot. It came with an error message along the lines of ' Windows failed to start. A recent hardware or software change may be the cause'.

I could still get in via Windows repair.

Then, I booted again and this time I see the error message . BIOS CHECKSUM ERROR.

After that, nothing but black screen on the monitor.

He was def able to get into the BIOS screen and tried booting from a USB etc but couldnt. He said he checked graphics card and cpu said they were fine and that it had to be MB.

No beeps or noises on boot, just a black screen and the monitor running through a series of 'checks'...

Dont know what else I can add, and dont know if this sheds any further light....


thanks again

Ok I'll try breaking this down so I apologize in advance. First the CPU itself doesn't have a fan per say but rather there is a HSF (heat-sink-fan combo) that is bolted on top of it. That fan is *maybe* $5-$10 and is removable and replaceable along with the rest of the HSF. Assuming the fan just needed to be cleaned $60 seems pretty steep for a new HSF even ones we use regularly.

When you say the PC was shorting out what exactly do you mean by that? There shouldn't be a "short" as the motherboard the CPU is socketed to is grounded to the computer chassis by a series of metal risers (washers).

The PC not booting could be a couple of thing, it could honestly be a bad motherboard, it could be a faulty power supply it could be both, hard to say. Anything that would prevent the PC from completing POST (power-on-self-test) could do it. Normally during POST you would hear a series of error codes much like a check engine light or an OBDII code from a car. These codes are more or less universal and can help diagnose what component is at fault. If you aren't hearing that either the speaker wasn't installed or it is the power supply which is preventing the codes from being audible, or it could be nothing, again hard to say.

You mention he was able to play with the BIOS? Are we sure? Because if he is able to access BIOS/UEFI then the motherboard is not at fault and that points to a Hard Drive failure. If the motherboard was faulty it would not POST.

Could it be related to the CPU install? Maybe, probably not. Assuming you have an LGA (Land-Grid-Array) and not a PGA (Pin-Grid-Array) if he reinstalled the CPU he could have bent a pin on the motherboard assuming it is an LGA. But then again you'd either show RAM issues or flat out no POST.

A noisy fan should be a $20 fix as most of the time it's just dust or it's rubbing against something. Worst case you're looking at replacing the HSF and that shouldn't have been $60 unless he's including labor which shouldn't take more than a minute or two. I've disassembled laptops completely and it not taken more than 20mins to do. To me it sounds more that the OS boot is looping which would be more in lines of data loss or corruption and not a hardware component.

That said I guess the first thing is what exactly do you have? There's more or less a process to fixing things like this and it normally goes:

Installation -> Power -> Cooling -> Hardware? -> Software

So what you'd need to start with is to make sure everything is installed and hasn't come loose or dislodged. Next you'd want to look and make sure each piece of equipment is receiving adequate power. After that you want to make sure everything that needs to be cooled is and is installed correctly. From there you break down individual hardware components starting with ones that are easily knocked out of place or removable like RAM, Graphics cards and hard drives. Lastly if all else fails it's the software or something that has caused the software to either become damaged or corrupt, things like: Viruses, HDD failure, RAM failure (normally one stick not multiple) etc.

 

[Sentential]

Thanks Sentential,

Some further info:

He did try to remove the fan but couldn't. The Power Supply was working fine, just the fun seemed to be rubbing on the side making the rattling sound.

By shorting I mean, once he'd done the install, he switched the PC on, the fans came on etc for 1 second and it lost power/ switched off.

I forgot to say, that before the complete failure to boot a few times I got it to boot. It came with an error message along the lines of ' Windows failed to start. A recent hardware or software change may be the cause'.

I could still get in via Windows repair.

Then, I booted again and this time I see the error message . BIOS CHECKSUM ERROR.

After that, nothing but black screen on the monitor.

He was def able to get into the BIOS screen and tried booting from a USB etc but couldnt. He said he checked graphics card and cpu said they were fine and that it had to be MB.

No beeps or noises on boot, just a black screen and the monitor running through a series of 'checks'...

Dont know what else I can add, and dont know if this sheds any further light....


thanks again

Can you get into the BIOS or do you have a black screen?

 

[morgueuk]

you can get into bios

 

[Sentential]

Try replacing the CMOS battery and reset everything to their default values. If you have access to another computer try and make a rescue drive and see if you can resurrect windows. If not you're going to want to make a bootable memtest86 drive and check for RAM issues, if that passes you're most likely looking at a HDD problem.

 

[trents]

Sounds like the technician who came to your house was not very competent if he had to keep telephoning back to his shop for advice. And the fact that he could not get the heatsink/fan off the CPU doesn't make sense unless it was glued to the CPU. The heat sink can be a little difficult to remove because the thermal paste between it and the CPU can create suction but if you work at it patiently you can get it off by twisting and sliding it. I would not trust those guys. Did they build the computer in the first place?

Now you are in the difficult position of not knowing which component or components is/are causing the problem. Most likely it is either the CPU or the motherboard or both. But it could also be the PSU. Just because a PSU supplies enough juice to make fans spin and lights come on does not mean its okay.

I would certainly look for a more competent PC shop than the one you have used on this occasion. I would also encourage you to learn to build your own systems so you won't be at the mercy of people who either don't know what they are doing or who are ripping you off.

Do you know any system specs about your machine? Make and model of motherboard? Model of CPU? Model and wattage of PSU?

 

[morgueuk]

Guys - I am an idiot.

I didnt mean CPU I meant PSU - Ie the Power Supply Unit fan was making the noise...

You are right about needing to learn how to build a system!!

Sounds like the technician who came to your house was not very competent if he had to keep telephoning back to his shop for advice. And the fact that he could not get the heatsink/fan off the CPU doesn't make sense unless it was glued to the CPU. The heat sink can be a little difficult to remove because the thermal paste between it and the CPU can create suction but if you work at it patiently you can get it off by twisting and sliding it. I would not trust those guys. Did they build the computer in the first place?

Now you are in the difficult position of not knowing which component or components is/are causing the problem. Most likely it is either the CPU or the motherboard or both. But it could also be the PSU. Just because a PSU supplies enough juice to make fans spin and lights come on does not mean its okay.

I would certainly look for a more competent PC shop than the one you have used on this occasion. I would also encourage you to learn to build your own systems so you won't be at the mercy of people who either don't know what they are doing or who are ripping you off.

Do you know any system specs about your machine? Make and model of motherboard? Model of CPU? Model and wattage of PSU?

 

[Sentential]

Guys - I am an idiot.

I didnt mean CPU I meant PSU - Ie the Power Supply Unit fan was making the noise...

You are right about needing to learn how to build a system!!

That's fine, you can try purchasing a replacement from a local retailer and see if that helps. It did sound power related to be honest so there's a 50/50 that replacing it will fix the problem.

 

[trents]

So it sounds like the PSU may have been overheating and possibly failed. But you also have another issue with the checksum error. So I would start by replacing the PSU and then flashing the bios. When a PSU goes out it can take other components with it like motherboards and RAM.

Do you know any specifics about your system components so that you could create a Signature?

 

[marjamar]

I didn't read all of this, but it sounds like your squeaky fan is about to cost you the price of a new pc or thereabouts. Maybe just buy a new pc online (amazon, newegg, etc) for $500 or so. It's easier when you are unfamiliar how things work and have to trust someone to fix it.

-Rodger