New here. Looking for ways to push my rig further

[Veraxis]

Hello all,

I just recently finished setting up my new gaming rig, as well as a first round of overclocking to get the most out of my build. Here are my specs:

CPU: AMD FX-6300
Motherboard: Asrock 970M Pro3 (newer revision with heatsinks on the VRMs)
Cooler: Corsair H55 refurb. w/ Arctic Silver 5 grease
Case: DIYPC P48-BK micro-atx mid tower
GPU: EVGA GTX 960 SSC ACX
RAM: 2x8GB DDR3 Mushkin ECO2 1600 9-9-9-24 @1.35V
PSU: EVGA 600B (600W)
SSD: Samsung 850 EVO 500GB
DVD writer: Samsung SH-224FB/RSBS SATA
OS: Windows 10 Home

My best results so far have been 4.4GHz @1.525 V (any lower and it fails Prime95), but since I'm not sure I am comfortable with voltages like that in a 24/7 machine, I currently have it at 4.2GHz @1.475V-- and even that is kinda marginal for me.

BIOS settings:

Spread Spectrum - disabled
Turbo boost - disabled
APM - disabled
Cool 'n' quiet - disabled
C1E state - disabled
SVM - enabled
Core C6 mode - disabled
Thermal Throttle - auto

In addition to the liquid cooler, I have a fan at the back of the motherboard to keep the socket temp down as well as another fan blowing down onto the VRMs and northbridge (stuck to the CPU block and radiator with Velcro). My temps are fine, but I have been having real issues with stability, even before I put the extra fans in. I just can't seem to get my clock speeds up without raising the voltage.

From my basic understanding, the problem seems to be a combination of factors: my CPU seems to have a somewhat anemic core 3, as this one always fails first in prime95 in any of the tests I have done, as well as possibly my choice of motherboard with 4+1 phase power and what is reported in reviews to be low-quality VRMs.

My question is simple, do you think there is any way I can get my speeds up without bringing my CPU up to unsafe voltages? here is a spreadsheet of combinations I have tried (entries without voltages listed are just tests before I started recording voltages, not necessarily tests at the default voltage)



The inside of my case. (I am fully aware that my cable management is atrociously bad)




My best stress-tests so far:

 

[Mr.Scott]

Easy answer. MORE cooling.
And you have some pretty good vdroop going on. I'd look into that.

 

[Veraxis]

I had noticed that as well about the voltage droop. how can I combat this? I don't see any options for LLC or vdroop in the bios (I'll check the manual in the mean time), and setting my power settings in windows to "high power" has done nothing. As for cooling, well, I'm not sure. what would you suggest I do? I have plenty of fans lying around (even some super-loud server fans that I salvaged), but where would I put them to be effective? I'm wary of making any major hardware upgrades as this was meant to be a semi-budget built.

 

[Mandrake4565]

Veraxis, the biggest issue I see is the motherboard if you really want to push higher. The power section of the board isn't really built to push one of these Fx 6/8/9xxx chips. You're taking the steps necessary to help it push by having fans blowing on the VRM/Nb heatsinks but at some point the board is just going to run out of "clean" power to push the chip and be stable. It's very possible that if you had a board with a much better power section that you would need less Cpu Voltage to get the Cpu to X Oc.

 

[Veraxis]

Hmm. I feared that this was the case, but it is good to have it confirmed by people knowledgeable about overclocking. As previously stated, I do not wish to invest in a new mobo or the hassle of completely rebuilding my rig just as I finish making it the first time, so I suppose I am just going to live with my poor purchase for now. I suppose that a new mobo/CPU combo will be high on my list once I wish to make upgrades.

As a final thought... is their any precedent to changing out the capacitors on the VRM stage with ultra-low ESR caps (<7mOhm)? or is it safe to assume that whatever the Mobo manufacturers are using will be of similar quality to what I would be able to find? This might be a completely insane thought on my part, so I would only try it if people thought it would actually make enough of a difference to justify the risk.

Thanks for the info, guys! this whole process has been educational, to say the least. I'll definitely prioritize buying better motherboards in the future.

 

[Mandrake4565]

Veraxis, unfortunately these Fx processors are really demanding on the motherboard they are paired with, especially when you get to the 6/8 and 9xxx chips. If running stock one can usually get away with a lower end board, but when one starts overclocking on all cores the power demanded from the chip goes up significantly. Luckily you only have a Fx 6xxx chip a Fx 8xxx would likely need to be left at stock on that board.

As far as the VRM section it is much more complex then I can even explain. I'd bet that "better" capacitors could help slightly but the real issue is heat. I'll try to explain to the best of my knowledge. You board has a 4+1 Power Phase section, most of the time the upper end boards have a 8+1/2 Power Phase section. Now just because a board has a higher power phase count does not in itself mean it can or cannot handle the power demands of a processor. Manufacturers build the boards to a price point and in order to meet them they put components in them, obviously to make a profit. A manufacturer of a motherboard could certainly put high quality, mosfets, inductors, capacitors etc that could meet the demands of any chip even if it were only a 4+1 power phase count but that wouldn't meet their price point. I'm sure part of it is marketing as well, people will think that just because they have a high power phase count that their board is better. Back to my point, because the higher end boards have a larger power phase section each component of it only has to handle a smaller part of the power the Cpu is demanding. This helps reduce the amount of heat created on each particular part. Less heat also means less resistance, this goes back to where I said you may be able to Oc to X Mhz on less voltage. You board having only a 4+1 phase count, the power section is really straining to keep up with the demands of the chip and the section is also likely getting really hot. This heat is causing resistance, which makes it harder for the section to get the clean power to the Cpu so you need to set the voltage higher in order for it to meet the demands. Higher voltage in turn creats more heat and resistance and around and around we go. This is likely the reason why you need 1.5+ v to run at 4.4. Doing what you are is helping but at some point you're not going to be able to remove enough heat for the board to be able to give the Cpu the clean power it needs. The only other way would be to go sub ambient and cool the Power section that way, which is unrealistic.

Note: Like I said I am no expert on electrical current and there is a lot more to this then I can explain or even understand. Some of what I wrote may not be 100% accurate but I tried to explain it to the best of my ability.

 

[Mr.Scott]

You did well.

 

[ShrimpBrime]

Asus Sabortooth 990FX would be the board of choice 98% of the time. Or if your going extreme cooling.. Asus Crosshair V formula-z

My best results so far have been 4.4GHz @1.525 V

Needs more radiator -

 

[PetrolHead]

I suppose that a new mobo/CPU combo will be high on my list once I wish to make upgrades.

Thing is, if you're looking for an mATX motherboard with a 970 chipset, you don't have a whole lot of options... Besides, if your rig is for gaming, you'd be better off upgrading your GPU to a GTX 970.

 

[Veraxis]

Like I said I am no expert on electrical current and there is a lot more to this then I can explain or even understand. Some of what I wrote may not be 100% accurate but I tried to explain it to the best of my ability.

you explanation of it is pretty good actually. I actually work professionally as an electrical engineer, so I have a basic understanding of the theory going on here, even if this isn't necessarily my area of expertise. As I understand it, there are several main factors that will impact the voltage ripple of a switching voltage regulator, such as the switching frequency/phase count (the time between "pull ups" between the droops), the Rds(on) of the MOSFETs being used, and the series resistances/impedances of the filtering inductors/capacitors. Pretty much all of these things are going to get worse as temperature increases, so it would be difficult to say what the limiting factor is in this system without an in-depth knowledge of their circuitry. It might be interesting to look at their voltage waveforms on an oscilloscope some time. I'll definitely post about it on here if I get around to doing that!

You did well.

It makes me immensely proud to hear you say that. This is my first real foray into overclocking, so hopefully my questions haven't come across as too amateurish.

...or was that directed at Mandrake's explanation?

Asus Sabortooth 990FX would be the board of choice 98% of the time.

Fair point. In prior machines I have built (most of them not for gaming), I have mostly kept my CPUs at stock speeds, so I have been able to get away with cheaping out on my Mobos. Seeing how quickly I hit a wall when trying to overclock on this build has been a real reality check for me.

Thing is, if you're looking for an mATX motherboard with a 970 chipset, you don't have a whole lot of options... Besides, if your rig is for gaming, you'd be better off upgrading your GPU to a GTX 970.

I had no particular reason for choosing the 970 chipset other than it happened to be inexpensive. Knowing what I do now, I might have stepped up and bought a more expensive 990 chipset board. My GPU is the other main component on my list to upgrade, and I intentionally held off on buying a GTX 970 with the expectation that I might upgrade it later on, perhaps once the next generation of GPUs becomes available (if they are not prohibitively expensive). For now, at least, I seem to be getting decent performance on the games I have tested on this build.

The way I see it, practically ANYTHING will be better than the gaming experience on the 3 year-old laptop which I have been using up until now.

 

[Mandrake4565]

Veraxis, thanks. Nothing wrong with the setup you have and yes it's likely a big step up from the lap top. That GTX 960 is a good card and for gaming up to 1080p resolution, unless one wants all the eye candy turned up to ultra most people wouldn't notice the difference between that card and a 970. As far as the 6300 and the motherboard, you know what it is involved with getting the chip clocked higher. Our biggest enemy when overclocking is the heat, which these Fx chip produce a lot of due to their wattage draw when Oced. Like I said previously, you're taking the steps to combat the heat about as well as you can without going to unrealistic extremes. Settling for a 4.2 Oc is not a bad thing at 4.2 the 6300 chugs along fairly well. I have a 6300 as well Oced to 4.4 on a slightly better board then yours, an Asus M5A99X evo. That said even with the better Vrm power phase section of the board I have it on, I am self limited to 4.4 Ghz @ 1.452 Cpu V. My reasoning is, to get it to run stable at 4.5 I need slightly over 1.5 Cpu v to run it there stable and I do not find the gains in performance justify running it at that voltage, but that's just me. This same chip, on my top end boards, Asus 990fx Sabertooth and 990fx Crosshair V Formula, will do 4.6 Ghz at 1.468 Cpu v. Just to give you a difference when it comes to higher quality power phase sections.

 

[PetrolHead]

I had no particular reason for choosing the 970 chipset other than it happened to be inexpensive. Knowing what I do now, I might have stepped up and bought a more expensive 990 chipset board. My GPU is the other main component on my list to upgrade, and I intentionally held off on buying a GTX 970 with the expectation that I might upgrade it later on, perhaps once the next generation of GPUs becomes available (if they are not prohibitively expensive). For now, at least, I seem to be getting decent performance on the games I have tested on this build.

Let me emphasise my statement a bit differently: If you're looking for an mATX motherboard for AMD CPUs, then the one you have is pretty much the best you can buy. Sure, it has it's flaws, but it's the only mATX board (AFAIK) that has the 970 chipset on it and I'm pretty sure no board with this form factor has any of the better 9-series chipsets. If you want to get a better motherboard, you thus need to upgrade your case as well.

Btw, remember you can also OC your GPU. You probably won't be looking at significant gains, but you might get a bigger FPS increase than what the CPU OC yields (depending on the game).

 

[Veraxis]

Mandrake,

You're welcome.
I think you are right, even if my OC results aren't anything to brag about, this should be sufficient for the gaming I am used to. My goal when I set out to overclock this was to get over 4.0 GHz, so I have accomplished my goal for that. It would have been nice to have gotten to 4.4 GHz at a safer voltage, but I don't feel the need just yet to upgrade my motherboard or resort to drastic cooling techniques for my VRMs.

If you're looking for an mATX motherboard for AMD CPUs, then the one you have is pretty much the best you can buy....

Btw, remember you can also OC your GPU. You probably won't be looking at significant gains, but you might get a bigger FPS increase than what the CPU OC yields (depending on the game).

Oddly, even though my case is described online as a "uatx mid tower" I think it actually would fit a full ATX board. If not, well, cheap cases aren't overly expensive and If I am installing a new motherboard anyway, it wouldn't really be much more work to transfer it to a new case.

I do plan on experimenting with overclocking my GPU and possibly my RAM after this. I will probably post to the respective sub forums if/when I have questions about those.

I think that should answer my questions for now. If folks have further thoughts or advice for a novice overclocker like myself, I would be happy to hear it, but I think I'll call it here for the time being. Devising ways to push my setup to extreme levels is lots of fun, but at the end of the day I still need to be able to use my computer!