New memory upgrade affecting overclock settings(Need Help!)

[QuietIce]

Maybe we need to review RAM speed calculations for an AM2 system:

RAM Ratios
The RAM ratio represents the speed at which the RAM clock ticks off cycles in relation to the CPU speed. With DDR it was a simple divide function to find the RAM clock result. With DDR2 and an odd-numbered CPU multiplier things got a lot more complicated. If you have a CPU with a stock multiplier that's an odd number (9, 11, 13, etc.) you may have already noticed that the RAM doesn't run at 400/800 when the system clock is at 200. No, your board's not broken! This is normal behavior and when you work through the processes below you'll see why.

Determining RAM speed
For this discussion RAM "ratio" will be used for the BIOS setting instead of the often used RAM "divider". The RAM divider is really the number we get near the end of the process to determine RAM speed. The ratio values will also be used, "2:1" instead of "400" OR "800" for the "stock" RAM ratio. Since many BIOS' use 400/800 numbers here is a quick list of the common ratios and their associated values (many boards don't have all these):

1:1 200 400 = 1.0
4:3 266 533 = 1.3333333333333
5:3 333 667 = 1.6666666666667
2:1 400 800 = 2.0
8:3 533 1066 = 2.6666666666666
10:3 667 1333 = 3.3333333333333

NOTE (K10 only): If you are over-clocking a K10 CPU (Phenom and newer) the only thing that matters will be the RAM ratio and clock speed. Use the ratio shown and multiply it by your current clock speed to get the RAM speed in MHz (which is half the DDR2 rating).

The process for determining RAM speed is pretty simple - just take it one step at a time:

1. Take the CPU multiplier and divide it by the RAM ratio.
The CPU multiplier is the CPU multiplier being used now, which is not always the same as the stock multiplier.
The RAM ratio is the ratio listed, not the BIOS value of 400/800.

CPU multiplier = 11; RAM ratio = 2:1 (= 2.0); so, 11 / 2 = 5.5
CPU multiplier = 12; RAM ratio = 5:3 (= 1.6666666666667); so, 12 / 1.6666666666667 = 7.2

2. Take the result from #1 and round up to the nearest whole number.

5.5 -->[/I] 6
7.2 -->[/I] 8

This result is the real RAM divider and why RAM ratio was used earlier. You should find this same number in CPU-Z next to the "FSB : DRAM" label on the memory tab.
<<Side note: The little "trick" of the second part of this step is called the "ceiling" function, which is just a fancy way of saying "round up to the next whole number". The reason this is done is pretty simple, the internal clocks need a whole number to use for the "divider" so a simple fraction is created (1/6 or 1/8). The reason some BIOS' use "limit" for the RAM ratio label is because this is the fastest we want the RAM to run. If we round down instead of up the RAM would exceed the limit instead of staying below it.>>

3. Now it's a simple process to calculate RAM speed. Take the CPU speed and divide by the RAM divider.

CPU speed = 2200; 2200 / 6 = 366.67 (NOT 400!)
CPU speed = 2880; 2880 / 8 = 360

This is the RAM speed or in DDR2 "ratings" DDR2-733 and DDR2-720.

Let's take one more example and work it straight through:
CPU speed = 2730 (260 x 10.5)
RAM ratio = 5:3 (= 1.6666666666667)

2730 / ceiling ((10.5 / 1.6666666666667) = 390 (DDR2-780)

It should be obvious, as shown in the first example, why odd CPU multipliers do not yield DDR2-800 at the stock 200 MHz clock setting. This also applies to any half-multiplier settings as well, as shown in example three.

As you can see, RAM speed really is dependent on the CPU multiplier, CPU speed, and RAM ratio - not the system clock. Notice the system clock is nowhere in these equations, though it is indirectly represented by the CPU speed, which is "system clock x CPU multiplier". This concept will be critical in the next step.

 

[shadowdr]

I hope that you are understanding what I mean. If you look at the memory tab you will see the line that says FSBRAM = CPU\6, This means if you divide your clock speed by 6 you will know your dram speed is, which is 433. If you lower the divider from 533 to 400 it would give you a dram setting of 371 at 2600 because it would change the CPURAM to cpu/7. If you drop the divider one more notch to 333 it would give you cpu/8 setting. With you original 3100 speed this would give you a dram setting of 387. 3100 divided by 8 equals 387. This is probably what the original setting was to begin with only the 533 was 333 in your first post.

Took me to long to post I guess and QI beat me to it before I hit enter.

As for posting pic's of screenshots. Open as many cpuz' as you like on the desktop and hit the printscreen button, open paint and hit the paste button and save as,,,,,. Go to the advanced part and tab down, use the manage attachments button to browse to the file, upload and THEN use the paperclip button. I just learned this not long ago myself.

 

[Nighthawk34691]

I hope that you are understanding what I mean. If you look at the memory tab you will see the line that says FSBRAM = CPU\6, This means if you divide your clock speed by 6 you will know your dram speed is, which is 433. If you lower the divider from 533 to 400 it would give you a dram setting of 371 at 2600 because it would change the CPURAM to cpu/7. If you drop the divider one more notch to 333 it would give you cpu/8 setting. With you original 3100 speed this would give you a dram setting of 387. 3100 divided by 8 equals 387. This is probably what the original setting was to begin with only the 533 was 333 in your first post.

Took me to long to post I guess and QI beat me to it before I hit enter.

As for posting pic's of screenshots. Open as many cpuz' as you like on the desktop and hit the printscreen button, open paint and hit the paste button and save as,,,,,. Go to the advanced part and tab down, use the manage attachments button to browse to the file, upload and THEN use the paperclip button. I just learned this not long ago myself.

Ok, I finally get what ur saying on the ram speed and such...lol. Took me long enough to finally get it though. It has always confused me when it comes to ram speeds, ratios and overclocking.

When I was getting my 387 ram speeds with my other modules, I had my ram clock set at 533 with fsb at 310. Another thing I did do is, I went in and changed the cpu<>mcp55 HT speed multiplier to 4x instead of 5x. I do have that set at 4x now also....I wonder if at that setting is whats messing up my divider? You are right though...somethings definately not right if I cant get any higher than 270 with my cpu/fsb at 533 ram clock.

If I drop my divider to 400 or even 333, wont I lose memory performance at that clock speed with these being rated at 800Mhz?

 

[Nighthawk34691]

You don't even need to resize the image, just attach it and use the paper-clip to position it in the post and the forum will resize as needed to fit anybody's browser width just like the ones I did above. The print screen key and MSPaint is all I use - too simple.


BTW - You can open more than one instance of CPU-Z at a time so you can capture all the tabs at once, assuming your screen resolution is high enough.


As far as your RAM problems go I can't believe the RAM won't run at 337 MHz (DDR2-674). Are you sure you're relaying those numbers correctly? See if you can't post a single shot (image) of the CPU-Z Memory tab - something's not right somewhere.

QuietIce...when I uploaded my attachment and then clicked on the paperclip, all it did was open a tiny window below the clip showing the attachment.pdf...no image of cpuz...and when I clicked on it, all it did was show in the post.... ATTACHxxxxxxxxATTACH in the post...No image of cpuz at all... something I am not doing right I guess..

 

[QuietIce]

You need to upload a *.jpg or other IMAGE file.

A *.pdf file is NOT an image file.

The print screen key and MSPaint is all I use

As for posting pic's of screenshots. Open as many cpuz' as you like on the desktop and hit the printscreen button, open paint and hit the paste button and save as,,,,,. Go to the advanced part and tab down, use the manage attachments button to browse to the file, upload and THEN use the paperclip button. I just learned this not long ago myself.

 

[Nighthawk34691]

Ok, I think I finally figured the attachment thing out...lol. Thanks for the help!
Here are my current settings....now if I can only get a little more out of it would be great!

 

[QuietIce]

Normally we would check the clock speed of the board but the M2N32 should do 280 MHz easy. I do see a couple of things that need to be turned down some more, though.

Your HT Link is running over 1000 MHz. The M2N32 should do that but there's no reason to push at this time. Turn the HT Link mutliplier down to 3X.

Second, your RAM is over spec again. The RAM setting in BIOS needs to be 533 (or 267 MHz, however it's labeled) to keep the RAM below 400 MHz.

Make those adjustments and try to push the clock up to 265 MHz, then post the CPU and Memory tabs with the new settings.

 

[shadowdr]

Ok, I finally get what ur saying on the ram speed and such...lol. Took me long enough to finally get it though. It has always confused me when it comes to ram speeds, ratios and overclocking.

When I was getting my 387 ram speeds with my other modules, I had my ram clock set at 533 with fsb at 310. Another thing I did do is, I went in and changed the cpu<>mcp55 HT speed multiplier to 4x instead of 5x. I do have that set at 4x now also....I wonder if at that setting is whats messing up my divider? You are right though...somethings definately not right if I cant get any higher than 270 with my cpu/fsb at 533 ram clock.

If I drop my divider to 400 or even 333, wont I lose memory performance at that clock speed with these being rated at 800Mhz?

No it will be at 387 at 310 like before, because it is double data rate it will show as half speed, meaning 387x2=774mhz, just short of 400.

 

[Nighthawk34691]

Normally we would check the clock speed of the board but the M2N32 should do 280 MHz easy. I do see a couple of things that need to be turned down some more, though.

Your HT Link is running over 1000 MHz. The M2N32 should do that but there's no reason to push at this time. Turn the HT Link mutliplier down to 3X.

Second, your RAM is over spec again. The RAM setting in BIOS needs to be 533 (or 267 MHz, however it's labeled) to keep the RAM below 400 MHz.

Make those adjustments and try to push the clock up to 265 MHz, then post the CPU and Memory tabs with the new settings.

I tried what you mentioned above, dropped the HT multiplier to 3x, set ram clock at 533Mhz, and cpu/fsb to 270 instead, post and booted just fine, and I was showing 810 HT freq, ram freq was at 337. I then tried to push to 280 cpu/fsb, passed POST, started booting into windows and then automatically rebooted right in the middle of the boot. I then had to reset cmos jumper, because I couldnt even get it to post at that point.

I can at least get to 270 fsb but my memory frequency is too low and may run too slow for my Black Ops. It seems that the best I can do with this particular memory is 260 fsb @ 667 ram clock, running at 433Mhz as it shows in my cpuz post above. I am really getting aggravated with all of this cuz I know this board can do better than this. Just cant figure out why it keeps hanging up on anything higher than 270 fsb when at 533 divider..

 

[QuietIce]

A 100 MHz jump in CPU speed will more than make up for a 100 MHz drop on the RAM - but this isn't over yet. There are a lot of ways to tweak settings. Quit worrying about the RAM and concentrate on the CPU first. Unless you're running a RAM benchmark I guarantee increasing CPU speed will more than compensate for slower RAM.

Maybe you should check the clock speed, just in case you got a less than stellar board. Drop the CPU multiplier down to 9X and see if you can run 280 MHz on the clock.

 

[Nighthawk34691]

Well, I figured out why I couldnt get above 270 fsb at 533 ram divider....I had to up my cpu voltage more than what I was running it at(1.475v) when I was at 310 fsb, for some reason. I am now running at 1.4875v and I am very sceptical when it comes to cpu voltages cuz I damn sure dont want to burn this one up. I would like to know just how high this particular cpu can go frequency and voltage wise without causing damage.

Here are my latest settings.. I did try to go up to 290, even up'd the cpu voltage to 1.5000v, lowered the HT link multiplier to 3x, but could not get it to post.

 

[QuietIce]

How high are your load core temps??? 1.50v (what CPU-Z shows) is pretty high for everyday use ...

 

[shadowdr]

Maybe you should check the clock speed, just in case you got a less than stellar board. Drop the CPU multiplier down to 9X and see if you can run 280 MHz on the clock.

Did you try this?
Because you said that the fsb had been set to 310 before and confirmed it with cpuz, maybe jumping to 310 is a good idea if the cpu multiplier is set to 9x instead of 10. Leave the HT at 3x and run whatever voltage to cpu that it was before installing the ram. Thjat should keep the chip running at 2790 mhz and the ram with the same divider you are using should be a lot closer to spec at 388mhz.

 

[Nighthawk34691]

How high are your load core temps??? 1.50v (what CPU-Z shows) is pretty high for everyday use ...

Vcore temp is default temp and has always run at this temp with no issues since ive had this board. I have not ever touched this setting.

 

[QuietIce]

Load core temperatures, while effected by vCore, are not the same as vCore and will vary by vCore, CPU speed, and many other environmental factors. OCCT, a stress testing program, will show core temp - load core temp if it's running. Prime95 will stress the CPU to 100% but does not show core temp, you'll need another program like Core Temp or HWMonitor for that.


PS
Load core temp, if too high, often causes instability.

 

[Nighthawk34691]

Oh I see....I downloaded Core Temp and it seems to be a useful tool in monitoring cpu temps.

I tried what Shadow wanted me to try..... set fsb at 310, lowered cpu multiplier to 9x, set ram clock/divider at 533, and set HT link multiplier at 3x....absolutely NO luck..couldnt even get it to post. Even tried to up cpu voltage to 1.5000v. Still nothing..

Im starting to wonder if I have to adjust my NB freq or voltage to stablize the system.
Another thing is also....with my cpuz images above, when my fsb was at 280, I was playing Black Ops last night and then all of the sudden, my game froze up, then I started getting memory errors(memory could not be read). I then back off fsb to 275 and it ran just fine. I think im just gonna leave it at 260-270 fsb...seems to be too much trouble to get anything more out of it..

 

[QuietIce]

What did you get for load core temps???

 

[Nighthawk34691]

What did you get for load core temps???

Idle is staying around 45 and under a game load, temp got up to around 58. I ran Prime 95 for about 5 hrs the other night and the core temps hovered between 78 on one core and 81 on the other, and also ran stable the whole time at 275 fsb at 533 divider.

I do have one question.... would it help if I lowered the cas timings down to 4-4-4-12, and raised the ram voltage to 2.0-2.1v? And one more thing....just how much over 800Mhz can u push these modules without damaging them? In other words, just like your cpu, how ur able raise the clock frequency...can u push the frequency pretty high on ur ram like you can your cpu? I found some ppl have reached over 900-950Mhz at 2.1v or even higher but im not sure if I want to push it to that limit.

 

[QuietIce]

Unlike cars it's not speed that kills but voltage and it's by-product, heat. If you can run 400 MHz (DDR2-800) at 4-4-4 then go for it.


Speaking of heat, those are VERY high numbers for your load core temps. I'd seriously consider lowering vCore or getting a better heatsink.

 

[Nighthawk34691]

Well, I was able to drop the cas timings down to 4-4-4-12 at 533Mhz divider, and jumped the fsb upto 280 and ran pretty good, the only problem was the heat, core temps jumped up to 79-81 while in-game, and had one instance where my game shut down automatically cuz my cpu got too hot... so Ive decided im just gonna leave it 260 fsb @ 677 divider... seems to run the best at this setting.. im done fiddling with this thing...lol. Im just gonna have to get a more powerful cpu, quad core more like it.

Thanks for all of your help and insight fellas, I definately needed it! Take care and happy gaming everyone!!