OC: X6 1090T BE on Gigabyte GA-870A-UD3 temperature problem

[Element22]

Hi all,

I hope you can understand, what I mean because I haven`t used my English for a while.
I`m overclocking my X6 BE, but having problems with figuring out which temperature it is at.
But first something about my hardware:
AMD Phenom II X6 1090T Black Edition, 6x 3.20GHz, boxed (HDT90ZFBGRBOX) (REVISION: PH-E0, STEPPING:0 from CPU-Z)
Gigabyte GA-870A-UD3
Sapphire Vapor-X Radeon R9 290 Tri-X OC, 4GB GDDR5, 2x DVI, HDMI, DisplayPort, full retail (11227-04-40G) (Old Card was: Zotac GeForce GTX 260 AMP²! Edition 216 Core 55nm, 896MB GDDR3 2100MHz, 2x DVI, TV-out (ZT-X26E3KE-FCP))
Prolimatech Megahalems Rev. B Kühlkörper
Corsair Vengeance Low Profile schwarz DIMM Kit 8GB, DDR3-1600, CL9-9-9-24 (CML8GX3M2A1600C9)
Cooler Master CM 690 II Advanced, schallgedämmt (“sound insulated”)

vCore atm 1.375
CPU atm. 3.8 Ghz
NorthBridge atm 2 Ghz

CPU&Co:



BIOS:




Problem: Which temperature is right for my CPU?



If I don`t know which is right, I can`t really overclock .

P.s. AOD Shows wrong vCore @ problem pic. BIOS pic Shows wrong vCore.

 

[Mr.Scott]

CPU voltage is very high for only 3.8 GHz.

Your CPU temp is roughly 40c at idle, give or take a couple degrees. At load it's over 50c.

Bios pic is the correct Vcore.
You still have some power saving stuff turned on.

 

[Sbirstein]

Element22, hi
As far as I can see, they both show the correct temps of the cores. AOD says "temperature reserve" - means max temp for that cpu minus the current core temp. I believe it was 70*C for the PhenomII's. My English is not good enough to explain better, sorry
And that "70*C" is called Tj max - a variable, the nature of which I couldn't quite understand. What I know is "stay bellow 62*C and you're good"
Actually, the all 5 apps are right for your core temps...

 

[rescuetoaster]

1st: Your English is excellent!
2nd: As far as temps go for a Thuban, HWMON is probably the best tool for it. You will want watch your core temps and what is called TMPIN1 on your motherboard - that one is your socket temp. You will want to keep core temp under 60 degrees (preferably at 55 or less for daily use), and your socket temp no higher than 70 degrees (65 degrees for daily use).

Now, these max temps are what we want to see when the CPU is under full load for a while - we generally use Prime 95's "blend" test, and let it run for quite a while. While it is running, you will monitor your core and socket temps. If the temperature rises above their respective maximums, you will need to stop the test. The blend test will do two things for you, it will let you see how hot your system will get under load, as well as stress test your overclock for stability. I generally consider two hours of a blend test to be stable enough for me, some users here like to do 24 hours, some do less.

Finally, you will want to do ALL of your overclocking in the bios. DO NOT use AMD overdrive or any other windows based overclocking utility.

If you are up to it, here is Dolk's guide on overclocking the phenom II. I used this, and it's a very thorough and easy to follow guide that will explain everything you could need to know about overclocking our processors http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php/596023-Dolk-s-Guide-to-the-Phenom-II.

 

[Sbirstein]

DO NOT use AMD overdrive or any other windows based overclocking utility.

.

I very much agree with that. Although AOD is good to roughly define your cpu limits and save some time.
Your core voltage is 1.325+0.150 V=1.47 V as it is said in the BIOS
BTW, what is your ambient temp? Those 22*C read for core temp seem weird to me. When the cpu is idle, my cpu/core temps difference is 9-11*C, e.g. if core temp is 20*C, cpu temps is 10*C.

 

[caddi daddi]

MR.Scott and Rescue toaster are spot on on all counts.
if you are on 3.8 ghz for the cpu, that is the target for 24/7 use, congrats!!! to you.

uninstall amd overdrive, it is known to cause rigs to get unstable, hair to be pulled out and many bad words to be said.

 

[Element22]

Hi all,

thanks for your replies .
First: vCore was 1.375, BIOS & Windows screens wasn`t created at same setting. You can see the actual setting for CPU on den Problem picture @ CPU-Z.
Maybe I should have made this Info big in my first post. my fault.
@ Mr.Scott: which power saving stuff do you mean?

@ Sbirstein: I figured out that at AOD it`s meant a reserve, but ... well with the other temperature .... you`re right . But I think what Problem was. I`ll post 2 screens after a test.

@ rescuetoaster: Thank you . Not sure if I completely understand. TMPIN1=Socket, Core = what’s under "AMD Phenom X6 1090T"? This can`t be correct, the temperature at core is colder than the room temperature.
I use Prime95 with "smal FFTs" because of max. heat to test. Maybe wrong?
I only change things in BIOS for OC.
I`ve already read Dolk's guide on overclocking the Phenom II before. Thats why I found this board . Problem is, some pics are replaced by Imageshack pic like "Highlighted areas are the recommended speeds of which to run the CPU-NB". That doesn`t help much

@ Sbirstein: I only use AOD to check CPU. For vCore see post top. But thanks .

I`ll post two new problem pic, one with just PC on, one with prime and one, where everything seems to go mad ... witcher II on ^^.

 

[caddi daddi]

lets settle on using the cpuid hardware monitor temps and voltages please.

 

[Element22]

"Normal" temps, PC was on for maybe 30 min:
vCore atm 1.375V
CPU atm. 3.8 Ghz
NorthBridge atm 2 Ghz



Prime Blend temps. I had to raise vCore to 1.4V because of blue screen while prime test:
vCore atm 1.4V
CPU atm. 3.8 Ghz
NorthBridge atm 2 Ghz



Witcher II abour 3-5min. switched to desktop and made screen instantly:
vCore atm 1.4V
CPU atm. 3.8 Ghz
NorthBridge atm 2 Ghz


/EDIT
@ caddi daddi: sorry haven`t seen your post in time.

 

[trents]

Element22,

Please download and install HWMonitor (non pro version). We are used to it and we need to see both "core" temps and "CPU" socket temps. Please do that and then repeat the 20 minute Prime95 blend test. Then upload pics.

 

[Mandrake4565]

Hwmonitor is in the top right hand corner of the last two screen shots Mr T.

 

[rescuetoaster]

That is exactly what I meant - using hwmonitor, you use TMPIN1 to monitor your socket temp, and each individual core temp reading for core temp. It is reading below ambient temperature because those sensors on the CPU are pretty inaccurate until you hit higher temperatures, so that is completely normal.

 

[Element22]

I`ll make the Prime blend test with HWMonitor. May take time till tomorrow, because I haven`t much time today.
Yes, that was what I read, that all the AMD Phemnom can`t read/give the correct temperature. It`s new to me, that it should be better with higher temperature.

And thanks so far for all you replies .

 

[Element22]

Here is the screen.

Ambient temperature ca. 20.2 °C.
vCore atm 1.4V
CPU atm. 3.8 Ghz
NorthBridge atm 2 Ghz


Question: CPU fan is on PWM. Which temperature does it check for how much cooling is needed?
Looked at whitcher II screen, the temperature is 38, but CPU cooler was louder than on prime.

 

[trents]

In HWMonitor, looks like TMPIN1 is your CPU socket temp. Max of that one is 52c which is fine. You want it not to exceed somewhere in the 60-65c range and you want core temps to remain under 55-60c range. We know from experience that on this generation of AMD CPUs those are the temp thresholds where instability starts to set in on a significantly overclocked processor. So it looks like you have about 10c of temp headroom on both accounts, Element22. Your core voltage is only 1.424 max and a max of 1.5 IMO is safe for 24/7 use, but you will get different opinions on this probably.

I notice you are overclocking using only the multiplier. We have found that we generally get better overclocks using a combination of the FSB and the multiplier but it is a more complicated method since raising the FSB also affects RAM, HT Link and CPU/NB frequency which requires that they also be adjusted at certain points.

 

[Element22]

Ambient temperature ca. 21.0 °C.
vCore atm 1.45V
CPU atm. 3.9 Ghz
NorthBridge atm 2 Ghz

Prime blend 20 min.



Don`t think 4 GHz will be ok within temperature limit. Also PC get`s louder because of more Cooling. And I hate noise ^^ .

Yes you are right, atm I only use multiplier and only overclock CPU. I`ll have a look at NB next, then RAM. More or less in this order, because all sticks together a little bit.
BTW, I`ve updated my PC component description at first post, added my RAM. It`s "Corsair Vengeance Low Profile schwarz DIMM Kit 8GB, DDR3-1600, CL9-9-9-24 (CML8GX3M2A1600C9)"

Questions:
1. CPU fan is on PWM. Which temperature does it check for how much cooling is needed?

2. I`ve reread the "3 Step Guide to Overclock Your AMD Phenom". I still have some problems with understanding.
In my BIOS, whicht is the NB voltage I have to raise if unstable? "CPU NB VID Control" (if i remember right, normal should be arround 1.50V) or "NB voltage controll"? I think it is "CPU NB VID Control", right?

3. As I have a Thuban, HTT & NB should have same MHz until NB/HTT is not higher than 3000MHz? ^^.

View attachment 156674

 

[trents]

Ambient temperature ca. 21.0 °C.
vCore atm 1.45V
CPU atm. 3.9 Ghz
NorthBridge atm 2 Ghz

Prime blend 20 min.

View attachment 156741

Don`t think 4 GHz will be ok within temperature limit. Also PC get`s louder because of more Cooling. And I hate noise ^^ .

Yes you are right, atm I only use multiplier and only overclock CPU. I`ll have a look at NB next, then RAM. More or less in this order, because all sticks together a little bit.
BTW, I`ve updated my PC component description at first post, added my RAM. It`s "Corsair Vengeance Low Profile schwarz DIMM Kit 8GB, DDR3-1600, CL9-9-9-24 (CML8GX3M2A1600C9)"

Questions:
1. CPU fan is on PWM. Which temperature does it check for how much cooling is needed? It's checking TMPIN1 (motherboard socket temp, aka "CPU" temp. This temp is most easily lowered by putting a spot fan to blow either on the top side of the board in the VRM area or on the backside of the board opposite the socket or both).

2. I`ve reread the "3 Step Guide to Overclock Your AMD Phenom". I still have some problems with understanding.
In my BIOS, whicht is the NB voltage I have to raise if unstable? "CPU NB VID Control" (if i remember right, normal should be arround 1.50V) or "NB voltage controll"? I think it is "CPU NB VID Control", right?

CPU/NB is the one you want to increase the voltage on. Usually, 1.225-1.5v is adequate to carry that component when overclocking it to the 2400-2600 mhz range which with the Thuban core CPUs generally improves the overclock stability and improves memory performance. The other NB refers to the motherboard chipset.


3. As I have a Thuban, HTT & NB should have same MHz until NB/HTT is not higher than 3000MHz? ^^.

Personally, I would not go for a HT Link/CPU-NB frequency higher than 2600 mhz. Performance returns will be minimal and it would require enough more voltage to drive temps up that much more. But yes, you should try to keep the HT Link and CPU/NB frequencies in lockstep with each other. RAM frequency, HT Link and CPU-NB all increase with any FSB frequency increase because they are tuned to the FSB. They are dependent buses and the FSB is the master system bus frequency. "FSB" is an older term we still use a lot but it will often be expressed as "CPU frequency" or "CPU Clock frequency" or some such thing. Stock is 200 mhz. The speed of the CPU is the product of this master frequency and the multiplier. So you can speed up the CPU by using either or both in combo. The combo method seems to be better for overclocking.

View attachment 156674

 

[Mr.Scott]

In my BIOS, whicht is the NB voltage I have to raise if unstable? "CPU NB VID Control" (if i remember right, normal should be arround 1.50V) or "NB voltage controll"? I think it is "CPU NB VID Control", right?

Incorrect.
Your CPU/NB voltage is normally around 1.1v
You can increase as needed to roughly 1.4-1.45v
1.5v or greater will kill your IMC quickly.
NB voltage is normally around 1.2v
Up to 1.4v is considered safe although I've never seen a need for anything over 1.3v

 

[Element22]

Annnd I`m back. Thank you you two for your replies. Curently my CPU is at:
Ambient temperature ca. 21.0 °C.
vCore atm 1.40V
CPU atm. 3.8 Ghz
NorthBridge atm 2.6 Ghz
HTT atm 2.6 GHz
CPU NB VID Control: 1.25V


There is room for more. But I`ll test this configuration in a game first. ... not that I`d like to play more than overclocking my PC! .
But next I think I have to look at cooling. Or better: Which Fan pulls where air in case and which pulls air where out. I think I`ll put a little fan in, as you said. Did someone know a good fan 80mm x 15mm which is quite silent but also performant to cool down the Mainboards back on where other side the CPU socket is?
And at least I should take a look at my ram to.

P.s. 80mm x 15mm is because of my case: Cooler Master CM 690 II Advanced, schallgedämmt (“sound insulated”)

 

[trents]

Here is a good diagram of how case cooling and fan orientation should be properly done:

A fan can either push or pull depending on which way you flip it. Usually it's best to mount the fan with the hub struts against the case panel to make sure there is clearance for the blades.