Project "SKYNET" - please help to choose parts and safe-overclock an i7-based PC

[Jay Riffs]

Project "SKYNET" - please help to choose parts and safe-overclock an i7-based PC

Hello overclocker-experts!

first of, i appreciate your help. you are (part of) the people thanks to whome typing important technical question into google does yield results, and therefore thanks i know i ask very much, but i just need to know before dumping money on bad stuff or frying my CPU


I need some help finalizing my choice of components and then overclocking my new PC, once i got the parts.

After a while photoshopping HUGE-*** files and rendering raytraced images in 3D, i got fed up with my old core duo @1.86 ghz, 2 GB ram power-pc

Photoshop eats RAM like pie, also needs a good gfx card to quickly display huge images when zooming/panning while working

3D apps need a special gfx card which is expensive as hell and also sux for gaming; but its also happy with a good multicore CPU, which sounds like a good idea to me, since im not rendering ALL the time

its time to get myself a serious MONSTER straight from hell. and then overclock it.
main purpose is the aforementioned grafics work, but good gaming is an appreciated sidekick. after all, i can justify the PC costs by the fact im gonna use it for work ..WHILE NOT PLAYING GTA 4 ON FULL

i will mark the questions/insecurities orange, for a better overview


so far, i have come to think of these parts:



- Asus Rampage 3 Extreme

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...131642&cm_re=rampage_3-_-13-131-642-_-Product

future-proof, isnt it? also supports 24 GB of ram, which i want, and supports the 980x CPU well... i am pretty secure about this one.

- i7-980x processor

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115223&cm_re=i7_980-_-19-115-223-_-Product


Corsair H50 closed CPU watercooler

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835181010&Tpk=h50 corsair

-> i want to set the cooler to exhaust the warm air from the case, unlike corsair suggests - they advise to let it pull fresh air into the case, but imo a bad idea; to help the process go my way, i want to mount an additional noctua fan on the radiator, so the radiator is sandwiched between two fans and can get more air


- G.Skill Ripjaws 24GB ram kit

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231359

--> I got the most difficulties with this one. there are 1333 and 1600 versions, the 1600 costing about 150 euro more, which isnt much, considering the overall cost of the rig. however, as ive heard/read, the 980x supports only 1066 RAM. now, i know the higher cloked RAM will just clock down and not burn or something.. but could someone explain me the whole RAM-CPU relation? im somewhat lost there. why cant the newest, most brutal processor support a higher clocked ram then just 1066? ? how do people use higher clocked RAM then?
also, the whole unlocked multiplier thing confuses me. with a regular cpu you just clock down the fast ram and then increase the FSB multiplier, untill the ram reaches its regular clock, or am i wrong there too?
if i overclock my extreme edition unlocked multiplier cpu to say 4.2 ghz, will it support a faster RAM timing then? do i need it to support 1600 instead of 1066- is there a real-world difference? and most important- how do i do that stuff with rampage-3 safe presets so it jsut automatically clocks or somethign like that? heard something about it being possible.
if i do overclock it, is a RAM-fan advisable, since there is not much space between the RAM-sticks, or does the good antec case do the job then?




- nvidia GTX 480 grafics card (for CUDA), Zotac AMP! edition (a more silent and efficient cooler then the reg leafblower edition)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814500166&Tpk=zotac amp! 480

--> is CUDA really that good for what i need? or should i rather go with a card that has more memory? GTX480 cards all have 1500 afaik, maybe radeon with more memory is better?



Crucial Real SSD 128 GB as system drive; also gonna pull current projects temporarely onto it, so photoshop doesnt need 10 mins for every qucik save.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148348

any better SSD comming out any soon?



2x RAID-0 Momentus XT 500 GB

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148591&Tpk=momentus xt

-->afor total 1 TB of storage. this is where i got my music etc, but mostly where i dump my pictures to and where i work on them. not ALL my projects are huge, some are just regular. and i thought that an SSD-backed HDD RAID-0 will kick *** there - when working on not-so-huge projects (which i cba to copy to system temporarely), it would notice which files i open regularly, and speed up the photoshop open/save times for me, unlike if i had regular HDDs. accessing the rest of the archive will still be "slow", but accessing current projects will speed up thanks to momentus XT technology.am i right or wrong with this idea?
dont worry, i do have an external HDD for backup, so im not worried about RAID-0 death


- Antec 193 case

http://www.legitreviews.com/article/1261/1/

-with one additional intake fan on the front (by default it has no fan on the front)
--> do i maybe need two intake fans?
also, does the rampage 3 fit into a regular ATX case? it is 1 inch wider then a regualr ATX board. midi cases cost like half of the big towers : / I would consider IN WIN Android instead of Antec 193, if someone can tell me that it is a good idea. how does android perform compared to antec193 in noise dampening? what about cooling and collecting dust? any experience with either cases?


OVERCLOCKING


what about SAFE-overclocking the processor on this MoBo and with this cooler? I dont want to be badly messing with a 1k dolalr processor, but not overclocking the 980x is a sin. i heard on rampage 3 there are some presets in the BIOS for safe overclocks for 4.0 and 4.2 GHz.

and whats the entire deal with the RAM when overclocking?

in general, i dont care for benchmarks etc, but i want a stable, fast system, in which i do take the extra bit by overclocking it slightly

thanks in advance,
Jay

 

[Prunecandy]

looks like a very nice build
the only issue i have with it is 24GB of ram! totally unnecessary lol why not 6gb or 8? or 12gb
you can go 6gb and go real watercooling and oc like a monster
just 1,000 bucks on ram is crazy you will never use 24gb.
also go with a bigger case.
i have a cm scout and 10.5 inches is to big for it and i assume the antec will be the same (the 480 is 10.5in)
EDIT-also(someone correct me if im wrong)but windows 7 ultimate i believe only supports 20gb

 

[Jokerzwyld77]

The ram is overkill even for the uses you are talking about. 12 gig should be the right amount honestly.

The case... If you want something Mid-Tower then think about the Antec 300. amazing airflow with 4 x 120's and a 140 stock on it. Or maybe the Antec 900. Both are very nice cases.

the H50... Go with push pull config on the fans and have it bringing fresh air in from the outside across the rad to be pulled away by the inside fan. Best results you can get with it.

 

[Jay Riffs]

thanks for the replies so far..

the H50... Go with push pull config on the fans and have it bringing fresh air in from the outside across the rad to be pulled away by the inside fan. Best results you can get with it.

wont this royally screw up the airflow inside the case + bring in lots of dust? is it possible to rig a dust filter onto the radiator or something?

@ RAM overkill: afaik, PS needs this much RAM: about 2.5x the size of the file(s) that is open, the size of the changed part of a file for each history state. thou im not sure if the history states in PS CS5 are written into RAM or directly onto scratch disc. Bridge, windows, and other stuff running in background needs some RAM too.

maybe youre right, and i should get 16 gigs of RAM and a small SSD just for PS scratch??? it will be about 300 euro less expensive alltogether with that variation... but man, 24 GB ram does sound like "wont need more ever again", while 16 sounds like "when stuff gets REALLY extreme, you ll regret not having bought the 24GB kit"

on the other hand, i can get 16GB, see if i still actually need more, and if yes then live with it untill the 24gb kits cost around 400 euro too, like the 24gb kits atm.

*scratch head*

 

[Jokerzwyld77]

wont this royally screw up the airflow inside the case + bring in lots of dust? is it possible to rig a dust filter onto the radiator or something?

That depends on the case and setup you go with. I have a Antec 300 with that setup on the H50 and the dust is very little. Please forgive the poor 10 second job I did on this paint image to show the way I have my fans setup. There is a built in dust filter on the two intake fans in the front so that takes away a TON of incoming dust. The Rad does get some dust on it over time but nothing a quick shot of compressed air will not remove without the need to remove anything. My temps in my case are still very low so its worth it to me to get the best performance out of the H50.

@ RAM overkill: afaik, PS needs this much RAM: about 2.5x the size of the file(s) that is open, the size of the changed part of a file for each history state. thou im not sure if the history states in PS CS5 are written into RAM or directly onto scratch disc. Bridge, windows, and other stuff running in background needs some RAM too.

That does happen but if you have the cash to throw at 24gig of ram then all the power to you. I just honestly think you would see a better improvement with a 60gig SSD to house your OS and PS on. PS on a SSD is instant access. The wait time on the few projects you said you did that were huge would be far less than the total wait time you would remove putting PS on a SSD.

*scratch head*

I do that all the time when looking into new things around here

I hope this helps save your scalp from some scratching.

 

[Jokerzwyld77]

Oh one more thing.... What is the cost of the following things in the your neck of the woods ( saw you mention EURO in the price so thought I would ask. )

60gig SSD Drive ( from Intel or OCZ Agility series )

16gig Kit of the RAM you were looking at

24gig kit of RAM that you were looking at.

 

[Jay Riffs]

lol UK aint got no euro, they got pounds or something. im from germany..

165 165 euro for 60gb agility, around 850 euro for the 24gb ripjaws kit 1600, 710 euro for ripjaws 24gb 1333, and around 420 euro for the 16gb ripjaws 1066 OR 1333 kit.

i still dont know about the memory timing.. the thign with 980x proc eating only up to 1066. so if i dont want to overclock ram, i could just get a 1066 kit and be happy? you got any idea on that?

the corsair 24gb kit 1333 is at 1300 euro, the 1600 is not even available, and will prolly cost 1500, so forget it



if you want more german prices, you can check out http://www.kmelektronik.de/shop/index.php?id=2 , which is a regular pc store, or, for the lowest price the online price comparisson system (type in the product name and press enter, all you need to do) http://www.heise.de/preisvergleich/


and as stated in the initial post, i wanted a 128 gb ssd as system anyway, so photoshop will be on it too, yeah.. just wondering how fast is it compared to having a separate SSD for JUST scratch disk for photoshop...

@fan:
thanks for the drawing hehe..explains a lot now.. i will also be having a big gfx card, so yeah, the case will be sort of split in two by it.

btw., did you actually try it both ways and measured the gain from blowing the hot air inside, like corsair suggest, compared to blowing it out? how much degrees was the difference?

 

[Prunecandy]

did you see this http://www.kmelektronik.de/shop/index.php?show=product_info&GID=515&MID=1&ArtNr=22389
all at 1600

 

[Jokerzwyld77]

I did check with the fan setup both ways and the way I have it set up now is getting me about a 4-5*c drop than the other way around.

Sorry about the geography mixup Going on 36 hours without sleep has me a little tired.

 

[Jay Riffs]

heh no problem joker
4-5 degree sounds good.. i think i still will rig it to blow out and then the other way around just to see myself in the antec 193.. wont be able to keep the hands off it anyway

prune, can you please explain me in noob-safe terms how they use a 1600 kit with i7 980x, if the proc can only handle 1066? i really dont get that part of computing :S

woah http://www.heise.de/preisvergleich/?phist=529890
650 euro now.. sudden 50 euro price drop compared to 30 minutes ago, omfg.. i think after all it does come to a good price ratio. in 1,5 months it maybe will drop to around 550 i hope..
400 euro for 16 gb, 650 euro for 24gb. sounds fair. makes my decision harder thou

 

[SeanBest]

Definitely try with 12GB of RAM first, should be MORE than enough. Look into a full size case.

 

[Jokerzwyld77]

That case is a heatbox waiting to happen IMO with what you are wanting to put in it and the uses you want it for. I would just look into a different one if I were you. Would hate to see you put a monster rig in there and not be happy with it.

 

[Prunecandy]

it depends on the mobo and the rampage extreme III supports 1600 and 2000 OC
read this it might help explain http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/284653-28-core-980x-1333-memory

 

[Prunecandy]

That case is a heatbox waiting to happen IMO with what you are wanting to put in it and the uses you want it for. I would just look into a different one if I were you. Would hate to see you put a monster rig in there and not be happy with it.

^^ i agree

 

[Jay Riffs]

^^ i agree

hm wtf? i thought the Antec 193 was good at least 3d game man and other reviewers said so : /

are you sure you didnt mix it up with the Antec 183?

if you didnt, what case would you suggest? IN WIN Android any good?



@ RAM clock and i7 980x

at that link one guy says:

1333 is just what your ram is capable of, you can run 2000mhz ram on a 1066 limit, it'll just down clock.

However, here the mobo is going to be the limiting factor for the RAM, not the 980.

In other words you can use all the way up to 2000mhz RAM with no issues.

so generally, if i get it right, if the limiting factor of the mobo would be X, then a faster-then-X RAM would automatically clock down to X, completelly independently of the processor????

if yes, why they put that limitation in the processor info at all?

also from what ive heard about 980x, it has RAM controller build-in, so now im even more confused


and how much real-world performance difference is there actually between a 1333 and a 1600 kit?

 

[Jokerzwyld77]

Ok I will retract what I said about that case. For some reason the link you posted or my highlight / click search in Chrome did not take me to that case. That case is AMAZING!

Just.... WoW.... Makes me want to switch badly. go for that case

 

[Jay Riffs]

hehe allright oh and about the H-50 blow direciton difference: you ment degrees Celsius, right?

 

[Prunecandy]

hm wtf? i thought the Antec 193 was good at least 3d game man and other reviewers said so : /

are you sure you didnt mix it up with the Antec 183?

if you didnt, what case would you suggest? IN WIN Android any good?



@ RAM clock and i7 980x

at that link one guy says:



so generally, if i get it right, if the limiting factor of the mobo would be X, then a faster-then-X RAM would automatically clock down to X, completelly independently of the processor????

if yes, why they put that limitation in the processor info at all?

also from what ive heard about 980x, it has RAM controller build-in, so now im even more confused


and how much real-world performance difference is there actually between a 1333 and a 1600 kit?

you wont be able to tell the difference =D get the cheaper one

 

[Jokerzwyld77]

hehe allright oh and about the H-50 blow direciton difference: you ment degrees Celsius, right?

Yup

 

[Jay Riffs]

@ prunecandy:

hm cool. should have started with that point
so it will be 100 euro less expensive then the 1600 version, if i take the 24gb.. either way, after considering the corsairs during all the time i was saving the money, the ripjaws prices sound like a real deal