Pros and Cons of Windows 8 over previous versions

[goose90proof]

At least Microsoft isn't going all Apple* and squashing 3rd party tools from working when they make the product more useable for a fair number of users


*As a side note, I love my iPhone but it would be nice if they would allow people to jailbreak without having to go through exploits to do it.

Thank goodness! I don't have a grudge against Apple or anything, but I just don't really know how to use them, nor do I want to pay that much for hardware. A lot of people seem to be really happy with their mobile devices, but like you said, they keep their platform locked down. I remember reading that they slapped Google because chrome ran faster than safari on OSX, and then required them to put some kind of delay in? Can't remember where/when that was so don't ask me for the link!

 

[dudleycpa]

For Apple's tactics I sure don't have to fix their devices as much. And I would say without a doubt that their iOS devices are less susceptible to viruses because of that compared to Android and Microsoft. And unlike their computers, the amount of iOS devices out there presents no shortage of targets. So if you ask me, that argument doesn't stand as well as people would like it to. Just like the original ones about no removable battery and how not being able to play Flash was an end to the world.

To be fair, managing such simple devices on the IT side is anything but that. Apple's enterprise support could have been a lot better. And other products that provide it are ultimately limited by what Apple allows them to do.

As for Windows 8, I see nothing worth the money and labor if you already have 7. The fact you have to **** around with it immediately has never sat well with me. With Windows 7, I generally disable UAC (a terrible feature, so let's not use that to promote 7 or 8) and then I could be good to go. At least major vendors like HP allow for some choice when purchasing new systems. I can get it installed with 7 downgraded from 8. So that way I still have licenses for both.

So do we all just need to get use to buying every other operating system and every other technology advances in general?

Well written. Excellent food for thought! I'm on Win XP most of the time. Win 7 OR 8 is an upgrade. IIRC it is not wise to "give" Microsoft too much money.

On a side note - anyone read anything about Win 9?

 

[awktane]

For Apple's tactics I sure don't have to fix their devices as much. And I would say without a doubt that their iOS devices are less susceptible to viruses because of that compared to Android and Microsoft. And unlike their computers, the amount of iOS devices out there presents no shortage of targets.

I think part of that is the organization of the apple app store as well. I can't say I've downloaded near as many horrible or evil apps on iOS as I have android.

With Windows 7, I generally disable UAC (a terrible feature, so let's not use that to promote 7 or 8) and then I could be good to go.

Not generally recommended. That's effectively the same as running around on linux as root all the time and hoping nothing happens. You are bypassing something put on there to protect you against evil. Also it was brought up because under windows 8, any properly signed microsoft app does not pop a prompt anymore. It reduces the sheer volume of "yes" to push. Under windows 8 the only time it really comes up is when I'm installing something or for the few apps that must to run with admin because they're archaic.

On a side note - anyone read anything about Win 9?

No news. "Windows blue" ended up being windows 8.1 so we don't really have much on Windows 9.

 

[dudleycpa]

I think part of that is the organization of the apple app store as well. I can't say I've downloaded near as many horrible or evil apps on iOS as I have android.



Not generally recommended. That's effectively the same as running around on linux as root all the time and hoping nothing happens. You are bypassing something put on there to protect you against evil. Also it was brought up because under windows 8, any properly signed microsoft app does not pop a prompt anymore. It reduces the sheer volume of "yes" to push. Under windows 8 the only time it really comes up is when I'm installing something or for the few apps that must to run with admin because they're archaic.



No news. "Windows blue" ended up being windows 8.1 so we don't really have much on Windows 9.

Thanks for that little bit of info!

I looked and looked for Win 9 information - it is turing into "DIS"-information. Not that is a bad thing.

 

[SteveLord]

I think part of that is the organization of the apple app store as well. I can't say I've downloaded near as many horrible or evil apps on iOS as I have android.

Maybe. I know I never use the amount of apps as a pro/con for either since percentage wise, the difference between Apple and Android is pretty small. There are a lot of apps with bad ratings though. And with the surge in In App Purchases, it makes finding a decent game to play that much more difficult since you have to weigh that in.

Not generally recommended. That's effectively the same as running around on linux as root all the time and hoping nothing happens. You are bypassing something put on there to protect you against evil. Also it was brought up because under windows 8, any properly signed microsoft app does not pop a prompt anymore. It reduces the sheer volume of "yes" to push. Under windows 8 the only time it really comes up is when I'm installing something or for the few apps that must to run with admin because they're archaic.

There is no security involved when all people do is click YES to everything anyway. It is just as bad as if you had to sign a document for putting your clothes on in the morning, to starting up your car, to buying a burger for lunch. It desensitizes people. I've even asked a co-worker (a CISSP mind you) about it's usefulness and to my surprise, he agreed with me. It is better to provide education and training because even the fanciest software/hardware protections can only do so much. I don't think there is much point in educating anyone about UAC, when you should just spend the time on other things.

But anyway, kudos if Microsoft has indeed tweaked it since its birth with Vista.

 

[Culbrelai]

There is no security involved when all people do is click YES to everything anyway. It is just as bad as if you had to sign a document for putting your clothes on in the morning, to starting up your car, to buying a burger for lunch. It desensitizes people. I've even asked a co-worker (a CISSP mind you) about it's usefulness and to my surprise, he agreed with me. It is better to provide education and training because even the fanciest software/hardware protections can only do so much. I don't think there is much point in educating anyone about UAC, when you should just spend the time on other things.

But anyway, kudos if Microsoft has indeed tweaked it since its birth with Vista.

I do the same, I always disable it. It's annoying, I don't need my OS to act like a firewall when I already have a firewall. Instead of teaching people how to use something to protect them, why not arm them with the knowledge to not click on the free viagra ads because it could and likely will harm your computer?

In addition, in an attempt to get some of the control back that you once had on XP, I go to Local Security Policy, Local Policies, User Rights Assignment, and set my account as well as "Administrator" to "act as part of the operating system"

This mostly lets me have control to near omnipotent levels like XP...

As for Apple, I have an iPhone 4s (5s here soon...)

Apple's walled-garden ecosystem doesn't allow for independent developers, hence the need for jailbreaking, which Android does not need, like Windows, because these are both open ecosystems.

The sheer number of real programs (not apps, mind you) for Windows must outnumber the App Store and Google Play Store together, fivefold.

Some go to Apple's Mac and iOS because they believe them to be higher quality. This is untrue. Apple doesn't allow one to get viruses because access is not there, innovation faulters without third party apps, eventually Apple will again be relegated to one of the lowest market shares, just like Mac OS is in the desktop segment.

 

[mbentley]

I do the same, I always disable it. It's annoying, I don't need my OS to act like a firewall when I already have a firewall. Instead of teaching people how to use something to protect them, why not arm them with the knowledge to not click on the free viagra ads because it could and likely will harm your computer?

In addition, in an attempt to get some of the control back that you once had on XP, I go to Local Security Policy, Local Policies, User Rights Assignment, and set my account as well as "Administrator" to "act as part of the operating system"

So what you're saying is that real men run as root? Sorry, I'm just poking a bit of fun just because for me, UAC is just a level of security that I am more than happy to live with. If I am installing something, what is one extra dialog box verifying that I am OK with this application making system level changes? I am willing to accept the inconvenience for that level of security.

You obviously feel differently and that is your right. I just want to be clear that it is a poor practice to run as an administrator on any system all of the time, that's all. Obviously you accept that risk on your local system and accept the consequences. I could just never grant that level of access to any user of a system I was in charge of.

 

[awktane]

So what you're saying is that real men run as root? Sorry, I'm just poking a bit of fun just because for me, UAC is just a level of security that I am more than happy to live with.

Fully agree. Considering how often it pops up in an average day of work (aka borderline never in windows 8) you don't give employees admin rights. Then they cannot simply answer yes - they need the password from someone who knows whether yes should be the choice. For the most part the only reason I have programs that ask for admin is because I'm too lazy to figure out which files they want to access. If that's not an available option I know it's not hard to teach them to think "did I just do something that requires me to click yes?". The people who click yes without thinking imo are uninformed. If my grandma with no computer knowledge doesn't do it then why would you?

To put it another way if your car is capable of driving 300km/h do you always drive it at that speed? Real men do.

 

[Culbrelai]

So what you're saying is that real men run as root? Sorry, I'm just poking a bit of fun just because for me, UAC is just a level of security that I am more than happy to live with. If I am installing something, what is one extra dialog box verifying that I am OK with this application making system level changes? I am willing to accept the inconvenience for that level of security.

You obviously feel differently and that is your right. I just want to be clear that it is a poor practice to run as an administrator on any system all of the time, that's all. Obviously you accept that risk on your local system and accept the consequences. I could just never grant that level of access to any user of a system I was in charge of.

I read the first line of that and closed the page, I don't use Linux because I am not a hipster.

My firewall asks me questions a lot of times, Zone Alarm, but MUCH less than UAC, when I had it on it seemed like every other game I ran was unrecognized and I had to click "yes". With my far less nanny-ish ACTUAL FIREWALL, It seems to be able to tell the difference between Windows OS level programs, games, and viruses, that UAC never was able to tell the difference between.

I wish there was a way to gain even more control in Windows 7, even with all of my edits of the security policy it is still not the same as XP. The simple fact is it is my computer, and I am not some old lady that doesn't know how to flash an OS iso.

 

[c627627]

I've modified my Win7 (and 8) heavily to get back some of the WinXP stuff, when you say that, can you name specific examples you'd like Windows 7 to do that Windows XP does?

 

[Culbrelai]

I've modified my Win7 (and 8) heavily to get back some of the WinXP stuff, when you say that, can you name specific examples you'd like Windows 7 to do that Windows XP does?

Using old XP themes on 7 would be nice, I've never figured out a way how, some of my old XP themes are so amazing I just can never forget about the times I shared with them.

I can't really think of any examples now, what did you do to make 7 more like XP beyond ripping peices of the OS out?

 

[c627627]

You would need to use a third party program to get additional options regarding the look of the OS. I mostly messed with functionality for personal reasons. Other than getting back Windows XP Buttons inside every Windows Explorer window, I did this www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=714656

 

[Barryng]

I had my first mis-adventure with Windows 8 last night on my wife's new laptop.

W8 just plain sucks! It has no redeeming value in my opinion and is a giant step backwards in simplicity and ease of use.

W7 has an elegantly clean desktop, applications are readily accessible, and the Start button is a powerful instant access to many things including utlilty functions and infrequently used software. W7 was not broken and is still not broken. It is very frustrating a well thought out and developed system is just flushed down the toilet instead of being incrementally improved.

This is not just a matter of not being used to W8. Many more mouse clicks are needed to do the same thing, and, why do I need to even learn something new when what I have now works just fine?

It is not a matter of just staying with W7 because, inevitably, resistance will be futile and support for W7 will no longer be available.

 

[pcgamer4life]

I had my first mis-adventure with Windows 8 last night on my wife's new laptop.

W8 just plain sucks! It has no redeeming value in my opinion and is a giant step backwards in simplicity and ease of use.

W7 has an elegantly clean desktop, applications are readily accessible, and the Start button is a powerful instant access to many things including utlilty functions and infrequently used software. W7 was not broken and is still not broken. It is very frustrating a well thought out and developed system is just flushed down the toilet instead of being incrementally improved.

This is not just a matter of not being used to W8. Many more mouse clicks are needed to do the same thing, and, why do I need to even learn something new when what I have now works just fine?

It is not a matter of just staying with W7 because, inevitably, resistance will be futile and support for W7 will no longer be available.

I'm going to assume you didn't read the rest of the thread? Pretty much everything available in W7 is available in W8, including your 'elegantly clean desktop,' with the exception of the start menu.

Maybe I just have a hard time seeing the issue with losing the start menu.. I don't know. On Windows 7, the only time I actually use the start menu is when I click 'Shut Down' (1% of my start menu actions) or when I search for something (99% of my start menu actions). I never find myself navigating the menu like in the days of old.. Start -> Programs -> Accessories -> Paint. Perhaps those of us that use the start menu so infrequently should be considered 'power users,' and the rest of you just need to adapt.

If you absolutely cannot live without your crutch of a start menu (for some reason), then get Class Shell. If W8 had a toggle for the start menu, I suppose that would solve a lot of issues complaints. Even then, though, I probably wouldn't even enable it.

 

[Barryng]

I'm going to assume you didn't read the rest of the thread? Pretty much everything available in W7 is available in W8, including your 'elegantly clean desktop,' with the exception of the start menu.

Maybe I just have a hard time seeing the issue with losing the start menu.. I don't know. On Windows 7, the only time I actually use the start menu is when I click 'Shut Down' (1% of my start menu actions) or when I search for something (99% of my start menu actions). I never find myself navigating the menu like in the days of old.. Start -> Programs -> Accessories -> Paint. Perhaps those of us that use the start menu so infrequently should be considered 'power users,' and the rest of you just need to adapt.

If you absolutely cannot live without your crutch of a start menu (for some reason), then get Class Shell. If W8 had a toggle for the start menu, I suppose that would solve a lot of issues complaints. Even then, though, I probably wouldn't even enable it.

I certainly did not read the most of the rest of the thread as 74 prior posts just would be too time consuming. My purpose was really to only vent my frustration and certainly not offend a true "Power User".

I am sure everything you said is indeed fact. However, the point here is that I am being forced to learn an entire new way of doing things and I do not want to do that if there is nothing consequential to gain. Since I have no problem and am fully satisfied with the productivity and ease of use W7 provides, it comes down to change only for the sake of change. W7 is fast, it is stable, it is easy to use, and, most of all, does everything I need it to do. Things are not almost instantly accessible with W8, as they are with W7, and the desk top is irresponsibly cluttered well off the screen with those inane annoying big blocks instead of little icons.

Also, I guess I should be awed at how adept you describe yourself (a "Power User") but, sadly, I am not awed. I still frequently use the start button to search, to shut down/restart, to start infrequently used apps that I do not want cluttering up my desktop, and, please find the strength to tolerate this, " ... navigating the menu like in the days of old.. Start -> Programs -> Accessories -> Paint.". Maybe I should indeed show more respect to a true "Power User" but I just cannot find that respect within me.

Nevertheless, all the rhetoric aside, W8 still sucks.

 

[mbentley]

RhoXS - If you don't read any other posts in the thread, check out the posts by c627627 regarding Classic Shell since it apparently makes Windows 8 a near clone of Windows 7 in terms of the start menu (which seems to be everyone's biggest complaint so far).

*edit: While you may not see the benefit of the changes in Windows 8, Microsoft didn't just change it for the heck of it. There is a reason behind the changes but it could just be that you do not see those reasons applying to you or know what those reasons are.

 

[Barryng]

RhoXS - If you don't read any other posts in the thread, check out the posts by c627627 regarding Classic Shell since it apparently makes Windows 8 a near clone of Windows 7 in terms of the start menu (which seems to be everyone's biggest complaint so far).

*edit: While you may not see the benefit of the changes in Windows 8, Microsoft didn't just change it for the heck of it. There is a reason behind the changes but it could just be that you do not see those reasons applying to you or know what those reasons are.

Thanks for the suggestion. I will do that tonight.

 

[wagex]

pros:
-metro ui i like it its basically the start menu / desktop all in one. plus metro apps like facebook and email show me notifications at a glance.
-you just start typing what ever you want to open just like windows 7 but you don't have to click the start button first.
-more detailed task manager built in.
-nic teaming doesn't require specialized nic's or drivers long as they are supported by the OS they can be teamed. (server only? idk)
-better multi monitor support for sure.
probably more but i'm too lazy or ill qualified to mention.




cons: it doesn't make me a sandwich. thats why i got a wife. just don't tell HER i said that

 

[hafa]

Pros:

1. Start screen takes the place of 3rd-party launchers (never really used the start menu all that much)
2. Better Task Manager
3. Improved Task Bar management
4. Better file transfer management
5. Better multi-monitor and projector support (recognizes multiple configurations automatically)
6. Starts/shuts down faster
7. Recovers from sleep faster
8. Recovers from hibernation faster
9. Better battery life
10. Better biometrics integration
11. Better touch integration (I've used tablet convertibles since 2005)
12. Installs faster
13. HYPER-V (the best thing since sliced bread)
14. Better printer recognition during installation
15. Seems more stable overall

Cons:

1. No more pretty Aero Effects
2. Shut down/restart interface is kludgy

Subjective bits:

• UAC is non-intrusive in daily computing
• The (File Explorer) ribbon better unifies the Office and Windows environment and is far more efficient overall
• I don't use any Metro Apps. I don't like them at all, even in tablet mode.

 

[Culbrelai]

I had my first mis-adventure with Windows 8 last night on my wife's new laptop.

W8 just plain sucks! It has no redeeming value in my opinion and is a giant step backwards in simplicity and ease of use.

W7 has an elegantly clean desktop, applications are readily accessible, and the Start button is a powerful instant access to many things including utlilty functions and infrequently used software. W7 was not broken and is still not broken. It is very frustrating a well thought out and developed system is just flushed down the toilet instead of being incrementally improved.

This is not just a matter of not being used to W8. Many more mouse clicks are needed to do the same thing, and, why do I need to even learn something new when what I have now works just fine?

It is not a matter of just staying with W7 because, inevitably, resistance will be futile and support for W7 will no longer be available.

Mostly agree, except for the last part. I believe that W7 will last longer and have an even longer support cycle than XP. We're fine on 7 for the forseeable future I believe.

I'm going to assume you didn't read the rest of the thread? Pretty much everything available in W7 is available in W8, including your 'elegantly clean desktop,' with the exception of the start menu.

Maybe I just have a hard time seeing the issue with losing the start menu.. I don't know. On Windows 7, the only time I actually use the start menu is when I click 'Shut Down' (1% of my start menu actions) or when I search for something (99% of my start menu actions). I never find myself navigating the menu like in the days of old.. Start -> Programs -> Accessories -> Paint. Perhaps those of us that use the start menu so infrequently should be considered 'power users,' and the rest of you just need to adapt.

If you absolutely cannot live without your crutch of a start menu (for some reason), then get Class Shell. If W8 had a toggle for the start menu, I suppose that would solve a lot of issues complaints. Even then, though, I probably wouldn't even enable it.

I use the Start Menu constantly, rather than clutter up my taskbar with pinned programs, I use the Start Menu, lol. Makes a lot more sense really to have a desktop with icons you use almost every day, and then a menu with cascading options for lesser used programs. I constantly open Windows Explorer from the start menu to browse places, the large list of most commonly used programs I use a whole lot, it's very useful that it remembers what programs you use most and puts them at the top of the list.

The Metro Start Screen doesn't do that. YOU have to put the programs you use most on Metro.

It is a step backward in usability.

I certainly did not read the most of the rest of the thread as 74 prior posts just would be too time consuming. My purpose was really to only vent my frustration and certainly not offend a true "Power User".

I am sure everything you said is indeed fact. However, the point here is that I am being forced to learn an entire new way of doing things and I do not want to do that if there is nothing consequential to gain. Since I have no problem and am fully satisfied with the productivity and ease of use W7 provides, it comes down to change only for the sake of change. W7 is fast, it is stable, it is easy to use, and, most of all, does everything I need it to do. Things are not almost instantly accessible with W8, as they are with W7, and the desk top is irresponsibly cluttered well off the screen with those inane annoying big blocks instead of little icons.

Also, I guess I should be awed at how adept you describe yourself (a "Power User") but, sadly, I am not awed. I still frequently use the start button to search, to shut down/restart, to start infrequently used apps that I do not want cluttering up my desktop, and, please find the strength to tolerate this, " ... navigating the menu like in the days of old.. Start -> Programs -> Accessories -> Paint.". Maybe I should indeed show more respect to a true "Power User" but I just cannot find that respect within me.

Nevertheless, all the rhetoric aside, W8 still sucks.

Agree 10000000000%

Mbentley, the reason they changed it was a snap descision when they saw $$$ plummeting and they saw Apple's success with the tablet market and attempted to copy it.

It FAILED. $900m in unsold Surfaces. Windows 8's adoption rate is very slow I dont remember the benchmark they used, slower than Vista's adoption rate IIRC.

-metro ui i like it its basically the start menu / desktop all in one. plus metro apps like facebook and email show me notifications at a glance.

Except third party non-store programs like desktop programs you pin to the Start Screen do not get the large pretty tiles, they get ugly little icons. I don't have a problem with logging into my accounts manually when I want to check them. It eases my security concerns with having a system connected all of the time.

-you just start typing what ever you want to open just like windows 7 but you don't have to click the start button first.

Windows 7, all you do is Windows Key + start typing. You never have to use the mouse if you don't want to.

1.Start screen takes the place of 3rd-party launchers (never really used the start menu all that much)

Subjective.

I use it a lot and I miss it. I am sick of the 'deal with it' attitude coming from Microsoft, a lot of people DO use the Start menu.

15.Seems more stable overall

Seems? Subjective again. I noticed no difference between 7 and 8.

9.Better battery life

Irrelevant on large desktop computers like us Ethusiasts, gamers, etc have, and I would say irrelevant to most people considering how horribly the Surface tablets have sold and how few other Windows 8 devices are selling.