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Mark617

Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2004
Location
CA, USA
I currently have a Q6600 OC'd to 4.5 ghz water cooled, Radeon 6850, etc. I need to replace most of it as I am giving this system to my brother (college kid, can't afford crap at his age). I have an Agility 3, which is pretty much the only thing I thought about keeping. I want to move away from Water Cooled as well, because I do not think I push my system enough to warrant it. I figure a nice good HS will be enough. If the recommendation is to stay with water though, I want a WB that is ONE SOLID PIECE. My last one, the inlet and outlets screwed in with an o-ring for sealing. It leaked on me but didn't cause damage as it was during the pre / testing phase (i.e. I was looking for leaks). But, I just prefer ones that are solid as to avoid this issue in the future.

Based on what I have read, and a budget of about $1000 I suppose, here is what I have decided. Also, I game on a 50 inch Panny Plasma, 1080 etc. Mostly play RPG's (WoW, Skyrim, ESO etc.).

HD - Keep the Agility 3 SSD

PSU - I would prefer a modular one, but if the standard ones are just better for the money, hit me with it. I have read this one is good - XFX XTR 650W 80 Plus Gold Modular PSU ATX 650 or this one - SeaSonic G Series SSR-550RM 550W ATX12V

GPU - R9 280X 3GB

CPU - Seems for gaming current gen games, the Intel Core i5-4670K Haswell 3.4GHz LGA 1150 is the way to go over the 4770.

MB - I would prefer one with a guide here to OC. I am okay at it, but if there is a MB here with a step by step guide I would rather buy it. I know the basics, Prime / Stability testing etc., but some of the BIOS aspects confuse me sometimes. I understand completely I do not need to OC for the games I play, and if that is the case, so be it. I absolutely do not need to OC (I know this is the OC forums, but I am fine not doing it now, or doing it later as the equipment ages).

RAM - G.SKILL Ares Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-1600C9D-8GAB or these - Team Vulcan 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory (Orange Heat Spreader) Model TLAD38G1600HC9DC01 . Never had bad luck with my G-skills in the past, in fact, G-Skill is all I have ever owned.

HS (or WB) - As I said, I would prefer air, but I have the fans, large radiator, pumps in my CM Stacker case, so will stick to WC for the CPU, so long as the WB is a solid piece of metal. I figure a good WB will be about the same price as a good HS. Only cooling my CPU, my rad was custom made by a guy here years ago and between the two pumps and the like six 120, and a few smaller 80s, I have a ton of cooling potential.

I figure if I go air, either the Coolermaster Evo 212 or the Noctua NH-D14 120mm & 140mm SSO CPU Cooler are the way to go. Again, whatever is better. I have everything for water in great condition, so if I can find a solid one piece WB I don't mind sticking with it. But it just seems like air won't ever leak on me =P

OS - Have Win 7, do I need win 8 for any type of performance advantage?
 
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150 miles away. So, 300 mile round trip. Don't mind the drive as long as I save around $80 (to account for gas). It seems like price wise, I can save a lot on the MB / CPU bundles, but the other items do not seem to net me much, if any, gain. And, that being the case, it looks as if I come up about even if I head down to buy the items versus ordering online.
 
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Based on what I have read, and a budget of about $1000 I suppose, here is what I have decided. Also, I game on a 50 inch Panny Plasma, 1080 etc. Mostly play RPG's (WoW, Skyrim, ESO etc.).

HD - Keep the Agility 3 SSD

PSU - I would prefer a modular one, but if the standard ones are just better for the money, hit me with it. I have read this one is good - XFX XTR 650W 80 Plus Gold Modular PSU ATX 650 or this one - SeaSonic G Series SSR-550RM 550W ATX12V
Corsair CX500 or CX600 will do you. The CX500 is cheaper than a decent bottle of wine and it'll run your system. I prefer to have a 600W PSU because I like a buffer between my actual power draw and the max my PSU can output. I built a system in Jan 2011 for my friend with a CX600 and it's still kicking.

GPU - R9 280X 3GB
I concur

CPU - Seems for gaming current gen games, the Intel Core i5-4670K Haswell 3.4GHz LGA 1150 is the way to go over the 4770.
4670K is all you need for today's games

MB - I would prefer one with a guide here to OC. I am okay at it, but if there is a MB here with a step by step guide I would rather buy it. I know the basics, Prime / Stability testing etc., but some of the BIOS aspects confuse me sometimes. I understand completely I do not need to OC for the games I play, and if that is the case, so be it. I absolutely do not need to OC (I know this is the OC forums, but I am fine not doing it now, or doing it later as the equipment ages).
ASUS Z87-A is the most recommended Z87 board on this forum for good reason. It's cheap, overclocks well, and has all the features an average user needs.

RAM - G.SKILL Ares Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-1600C9D-8GAB or these - Team Vulcan 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory (Orange Heat Spreader) Model TLAD38G1600HC9DC01 . Never had bad luck with my G-skills in the past, in fact, G-Skill is all I have ever owned.
I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen the data myself, but apparently, faster RAM really does improve game perf. 2800Mhz RAM gives you 15% better gaming performance than 1333Mhz RAM. With a platform that supports high speed DDR3 it's not a bad idea to pick some up.

HS (or WB) - As I said, I would prefer air, but I have the fans, large radiator, pumps in my CM Stacker case, so will stick to WC for the CPU, so long as the WB is a solid piece of metal. I figure a good WB will be about the same price as a good HS. Only cooling my CPU, my rad was custom made by a guy here years ago and between the two pumps and the like six 120, and a few smaller 80s, I have a ton of cooling potential.


I figure if I go air, either the Coolermaster Evo 212 or the Noctua NH-D14 120mm & 140mm SSO CPU Cooler are the way to go. Again, whatever is better. I have everything for water in great condition, so if I can find a solid one piece WB I don't mind sticking with it. But it just seems like air won't ever leak on me =P
NHD14/NHD15 (15 fits on the Z87-A and does not block the first PCIEX16 slot)

OS - Have Win 7, do I need win 8 for any type of performance advantage?
The newest version of Direct X out soon will only be supported on Win8. Pick up an OEM Win 8.1 is my advice to you.
 
Seems like most of your recommendations are right in line.

One question though, when you mention RAM, you are suggesting something like -

Mushkin Enhanced Stealth 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 2800 (PC3 22400) Desktop Memory Model 997126R

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820226439

I just picked the cheapest version for comparison. If the type is correct, do you have a recommendation?

Thank you
 
Seems like most of your recommendations are right in line.

One question though, when you mention RAM, you are suggesting something like -

Mushkin Enhanced Stealth 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 2800 (PC3 22400) Desktop Memory Model 997126R

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820226439

I just picked the cheapest version for comparison. If the type is correct, do you have a recommendation?

Thank you

There's no need to spend that kind of money. You can get DDR3 2400 for not too much more cash than DDR3 1600. Granted, it's not as fast as 2800... but for the average price of 2800... you really have to ask yourself it it's worth it. If you have unlimited funds, get the 2800. If not, consider this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231666

IMO, it defeats the 10-15% performance increase to spend $250 on 8GB of RAM. When you look at the 2400, $80-90 for a decent FPS increase isn't bad though.

Keep in mind that ridiculously high RAM speeds will affect your maximum CPU overclock, as you are stressing the mem controller. You can still hit average overclocks but really high OC's may be affected. Does that matter? No, because the faster RAM gives you more FPS than a CPU overclock, which tends to yield 0 FPS in today's games, with few exceptions (ie, SC2 with the map maxed out on units and epic battles raging). Also, running large amounts of high speed RAM puts extra stress on the mem controller, so while you may be able to run 8GB at DDR3 2800, you probably won't be able to get 32GB running at that speed.
 
That is for DirectX 11.2 and the main support for that is using system memory for video textures. Since AMD mantel was introduced I'm wondering if DirectX 12 next year will be backwards compatible to windows 7.

It stands to reason that if 11.2 is only for Win 8 then 12 will only be for Win 8 and/or Blue.
 
Id cross the "windows 8 bridge" later, but thats just me :shrug:


http://pcpartpicker.com/p/3D9C0

Heres a pretty solid place to get started->

-4670k processor. Its reputation for gaming should precede it.
-Maximus vi hero is an EXTREMELY highly rated mother board with great OC support.
-went with 16gb of 2133... cuz reasons. No, but 16gb of 2133mhz for 136$ is literally too good to pass up. You shouldnt need anywhere near that, but its fast ram, and 16gb will last you a while.
- Asus r9 280x directcu ii. Of the 280x's its not the "best of the best", but its rated the most quiet with regards to stellar performance as well.
- CX 750M is a semi modular power supply. The only cable you must run is the 24 pin. But other than that, all the other chords are modular.

-case is too subjective for this price point, so thats on you.
 
Yeah, I have a CM Stacker case. I can wait on Win 8 until DX drops. Any opinion on that board versus the Asus Z87 A? Also, I could spend a bit more to have a better R9 280x, if there was a specific brand I should go after instead? And finally, in terms of gaming, what would the difference be between the 8 GB of 2400 above and your 16 GB suggestion?

I really do not want to nickel and dime things. I always set a budget and then go over by 10 or 20% just because saving $20 here or there never sits well with me. I have buyer's remorse like no other. I wanted to return my 50" plasma three years ago before I even got it home from Fry's.

Thank you everyone for the help so far!

* I am going to stick with WC. I just can't see not using the entire WC system I have because of one bad experience with a CPU block. Only will be running the CPU in the loop, so if you have a suggestion for a solid water block give it to me instead of the N14/15 above (for air).
 
Yeah, I have a CM Stacker case. I can wait on Win 8 until DX drops. Any opinion on that board versus the Asus Z87 A? Also, I could spend a bit more to have a better R9 280x, if there was a specific brand I should go after instead? And finally, in terms of gaming, what would the difference be between the 8 GB of 2400 above and your 16 GB suggestion?

I really do not want to nickel and dime things. I always set a budget and then go over by 10 or 20% just because saving $20 here or there never sits well with me. I have buyer's remorse like no other. I wanted to return my 50" plasma three years ago before I even got it home from Fry's.


16gb of 2133 will last longer than 8gb of 2400. There is almost zero performance gain between the two, and there should be no perceivable difference. You shouldn't be able to tell the difference between 8gb and 16gb (yet...). Its literally just that 136$ for 2133 is a really really good deal.

Lol, the Asus models are highly regarded. From reading a bazillion reviews on 280x's it really seems to be splitting hairs and mild overclocking potential. The directcu ii edition is the most quiet. The "Toxic" 280x appears to be the most powerful and the most noisy. Give and take with both of them I guess. If you're going to split hairs and go over budget... then go over budget for a reason that will net you more appreciable performance gains.

Finally the maximus is their flagship republic of gamers line. I can't speak for the z87-a, I just do know the maximus hero is all over the place and is extremely highly reviewed. Has some really cool features on it too. If you're into over clocking, thats the board for you. edit: If you're "for realsies" about keeping your watercooling, dont skimp on your mother board. Learned that one the hard way lol .
 
16gb of 2133 will last longer than 8gb of 2400. There is almost zero performance gain between the two, and there should be no perceivable difference. You shouldn't be able to tell the difference between 8gb and 16gb (yet...). Its literally just that 136$ for 2133 is a really really good deal.

Lol, the Asus models are highly regarded. From reading a bazillion reviews on 280x's it really seems to be splitting hairs and mild overclocking potential. The directcu ii edition is the most quiet. The "Toxic" 280x appears to be the most powerful and the most noisy. Give and take with both of them I guess. If you're going to split hairs and go over budget... then go over budget for a reason that will net you more appreciable performance gains.

Finally the maximus is their flagship republic of gamers line. I can't speak for the z87-a, I just do know the maximus hero is all over the place and is extremely highly reviewed. Has some really cool features on it too. If you're into over clocking, thats the board for you. edit: If you're "for realsies" about keeping your watercooling, dont skimp on your mother board. Learned that one the hard way lol .

I strongly disagree. The RAM advice is good, but it might have been more helpful to link to the RAM kit you mentioned on Newegg or list the part number. 16GB is unnecessary currently but that does sound like a good price.

Your motherboard advice I strongly disagree with. The Maximus VI Hero is significantly more expensive than the Z87-A and has zero additional features for the average user. It just looks cool. On air and water, the Z87-A and Maximus VI hero both overclock exactly the same. The clear choice, as is espoused by countless forum members, is the Z87-A. There's a reason why it's the most recommended Z87 board in the General Hardware section of OCF.

Finally, I'd like to speak to your comment that if the OP is into overclocking, the HERO is the "board for him". This is highly erroneous. The Z87-A overclocks EXACTLY the same (on air/aio/water). Haswell uses on die VRM which makes the on-board VRM less important. The z87-A and Hero are both 8 phase boards. This is more than sufficient for any kind of clocks you can achieve on water. If you're going for DiCE of LN2, get a top tier board. For water, Z87-A.

Also, if I may go off on another tangent, with today's chips, there is no point to going water for gaming. With a Q6600 you wanted to get the FSB as high as possible to improve performance. With a 4670K, the throughput is already so high that overclocking is totally unnecessary and will yield zero gains in gaming, with very, very, very few minor exceptions. It could be argued that just the cost of buying a new block for the CPU if the OP's current block doesn't fit negates the benefit that would be gained by upping the core clock on the CPU. You overclock Sandy/Ivy/Haswell because you want to, not because you have to. It's not C2D/C2Q days.
 
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I strongly disagree. The RAM advice is good, but it might have been more helpful to link to the RAM kit you mentioned on Newegg or list the part number. 16GB is unnecessary currently but that does sound like a good price.

Your motherboard advice I strongly disagree with. The Maximus VI Hero is significantly more expensive than the Z87-A and has zero additional features for the average user. It just looks cool. On air and water, the Z87-A and Maximus VI hero both overclock exactly the same. The clear choice, as is espoused by countless forum members, is the Z87-A. There's a reason why it's the most recommended Z87 board in the General Hardware section of OCF.

Finally, I'd like to speak to your comment that if the OP is into overclocking, the HERO is the "board for him". This is highly erroneous. The Z87-A overclocks EXACTLY the same (on air/aio/water). Haswell uses on die VRM which makes the on-board VRM less important. The z87-A and Hero are both 8 phase boards. This is more than sufficient for any kind of clocks you can achieve on water. If you're going for DiCE of LN2, get a top tier board. For water, Z87-A.



No worries. I know 16gb is overkill, but at that price, its almost silly to not get it for a build of this caliber. Provides some pretty decent "future proofing" in that regard. The 8gb is also on sale for 71$ which is also a pretty solid price.


As far as the Z87-a, as mentioned, I haven't heard much nor seen much about it (granted, I don't look for things like that for myself). I used a maximus hero on my friends build and its pretty beastly, not saying thats the "only option" I just know it first hand to be a "good option". :thup: If thats the agreed upon mobo, then by all means! Didn't mean to over step there. Edit: I reread my post, and yeah I can see how I was saying "this is the only good board blah blah". Didn't mean to say it like that. Just meant its a great, well regarded motherboard is all.

Heres a link to the ram directly. Free shipping to boot!

http://www.ncixus.com/products/?usaffiliateid=1000031504&sku=89849&vpn=AG316G2130U1Q&manufacture=AMD


EDIT: How is this one?

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/3DkBW

Yeah yeah, still got the 750w on there. Its 7$ more than the 600w.
 
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That's good but you can get a decent dual fan R9 280X for $299 on Newegg. No need to spend an extra $30. DCUII is nothing special. I have the GTX580 in that flavor.


I just like its noise levels personally. Performance seemed to be too close to bother with otherwise honestly.

Heres the review Im going off of. Pretty thorough and in depth. The frame rates were all so similar, but that directuII was a full 8db quieter at full load.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-r9-280x-third-party-round-up,3655.html
 
These two videos will perhaps help you understand why I am suggesting the directcuii :D


vs...



I mean COME ON haha. One sounds like fan, the other sounds like a jet fighter taking off...
 
These two videos will perhaps help you understand why I am suggesting the directcuii :D


vs...



I mean COME ON haha. One sounds like fan, the other sounds like a jet fighter taking off...

Sounds like a General Electric GE90 at full throttle that card...

These cards never really throttle up to 100% fan speed though. My DCUII 580 has only gone as high as about 50% fan with a 100Mhz overclock on the core in stressful (for a 580) games like Metro 2033.
 
Sounds like a General Electric GE90 at full throttle that card...

These cards never really throttle up to 100% fan speed though. My DCUII 580 has only gone as high as about 50% fan with a 100Mhz overclock on the core in stressful (for a 580) games like Metro 2033.


haha I was stationed on a carrier for a few years, I WASNT joking about the jet fighter taking off comment haha.

Interesting to know, I was under the impression these cards had a tendency to get pretty hot pretty quick.
 
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