SLI: A tax on the uninformed

[infinitevalence]

Dual Llink does not mean 2 DVI it means the DVI port is a dual link DVI port.

 

[MeatTheEB]

And theoretically you could do it from nVidia or ATI, as both offer at least one DVI port and then a converter.

 

[T'wolves]

Sigh. You miss the point.

I believe he made a very good point. That's why I have dual psu's.


However why do people say sli is a marketing scam (two or three in this thread)? I have not been douped by nvidia, or mis-led, mis-informed, or solicited sli by nvidia. I have not seen or heard anyone complain to get thier money back for being mis-led by advertising for sli. Benchies prove sli provides a performance increase, how much is debatable. But I certainly do not see dell, hp, or gateway selling sli models. To begin with I do not think sli is being sold/marketed to/advertised to the general computer world anyways, where most the really uniformed users are. Most people still dont know the diffence from AMD to Intel, how are they supposed to know what sli is?

A good majority of us are young adults, how people here think thier parents (or significant others for the more life experienced) will get scamed and buy sli for themselves?

0, bets anyone?

 

[Despotes]

If you want maximum performance in games with your hi-res monitor go SLI.

If you don't have a hi-res monitor you are wasting the benefits of SLI.

The reason I went SLI is because I didn't pay much for my first 7800GTX(Evga StepUp Program) and my 1920X1200 res.

I will go single with Nvidia's next card only if it greatly outperforms my SLI'd set up. (The 7800GTX512MB didn't do it) then maybe go SLI again if nothing has come out for a while that can substantially outperform my current vc.

One thing is not debatable--It offers better performance in many games at hi-res.
Subjective--Is it worth it?

It's funny to see those with single cards and low res monitors bash SLI. hehe
Is there a point??

 

[JJG]

I believe he made a very good point. That's why I have dual psu's.


However why do people say sli is a marketing scam (two or three in this thread)? I have not been douped by nvidia, or mis-led, mis-informed, or solicited sli by nvidia. I have not seen or heard anyone complain to get thier money back for being mis-led by advertising for sli. Benchies prove sli provides a performance increase, how much is debatable. But I certainly do not see dell, hp, or gateway selling sli models. To begin with I do not think sli is being sold/marketed to/advertised to the general computer world anyways, where most the really uniformed users are. Most people still dont know the diffence from AMD to Intel, how are they supposed to know what sli is?

A good majority of us are young adults, how people here think thier parents (or significant others for the more life experienced) will get scamed and buy sli for themselves?

0, bets anyone?

look at the XPS 600 Extreme Gaming from dell

 

[MeatTheEB]

I believe he made a very good point. That's why I have dual psu's.

The dual power supplies thing was NOT a point, the dual power supplies thing was more senseless bitching and whining to prove his statement that "omgwtfbbgkfcSLISUCKXXORZs!1!eleven". He himself misses the point of SLI as a concept, and not the idea that SLI uses more power.

 

[T'wolves]

The dual power supplies thing was NOT a point, the dual power supplies thing was more senseless bitching and whining to prove his statement that "omgwtfbbgkfcSLISUCKXXORZs!1!eleven". He himself misses the point of SLI as a concept, and not the idea that SLI uses more power.

Post intelligently or don't post at all....

the dual PSU's is to counter the arugement, which is a good point, that SLI is very taxing on a single psu especially an underpowered one. TWO VIDEO CARDS USES MORE POWER, just because two cards display to a single monitor doesnt mean they use the same amount of power as a single card on a single monitor....http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2284&p=5

He himself misses the point of SLI as a concept, and not the idea that SLI uses more power.

You contradicted yourself here, he completely understand the concept of sli, he knows if he has poor temps and a weak psu, investing in sli first is a bad idea.

 

[T'wolves]

look at the XPS 600 Extreme Gaming from dell

you got me against dell not selling sli, but the system that is sold with it includes a 24" widescreen and capable of using sli to its full advantage. while it may not be the best investment, it sure isnt a bad one if your a hard core gamer. But I dont have to worry about my 60yr dad gettin suckered into it either.

 

[JJG]

you got me against dell not selling sli, but the system that is sold with it includes a 24" widescreen and capable of using sli to its full advantage. while it may not be the best investment, it sure isnt a bad one if your a hard core gamer. But I dont have to worry about my 60yr dad gettin suckered into it either.

ya but you dont have to buy that screen, infact you dont have to get a screen at all if you dont want, the option is there

 

[MeatTheEB]

you got me against dell not selling sli, but the system that is sold with it includes a 24" widescreen and capable of using sli to its full advantage. while it may not be the best investment, it sure isnt a bad one if your a hard core gamer. But I dont have to worry about my 60yr dad gettin suckered into it either.

That and the whole part where nobody here is going to be buying a Dell anytime soon.

 

[freeagent]

imho 2 6600gts are better then 1, in benches and games.

 

[JEmlay]

My 2 cents.

This was poorly structured. Too many assumptions are made and you prove yourself that SLI is NOT a waste of money and give perfect examples for when people would need SLI. Frankly, you just failed debate club. The biggest problem I noticed right away is how "stand offish" it seemed. How is anyone supposed to take you seriously? I also found it to be rather biased.

"The point im trying to make here is that unless you have a 20" wide screen monitor or larger SLI WILL HAVE NO EFFECT on in game settings."

Well I do. So I guess that throws out your entire argument? You show me a single video card that can output 1920X1400 with everything turned on (best detail) and I'll rethink about getting that second video card. I have a 7800GTX 512MB and it does great at 1600X1200. But once you hit that next res it all goes to hell. I added a second card (loner) and 1920X1400 came up without a second thought. Smooth as butter. So with these simple facts how exactly is SLI a "complete and total", grossly generalized, "rip off"?

"Thats it SLI offers NO improvement for gaming except in the extreme cases and trust me YOUR NOT ONE OF THEM."

Excuse you? This goes with my first comment. Poorly structured and amateurish in nature. Get some direction and have a solid point before your re-write. I just proved above that this is not correct.

"I know this thread is going to tick allot of people off, mostly those who refuse to realize that they got had,"

Again, amateurish. I just proved that had I already bought a second card I would have in no way "got had". You need to make sure you structure comments like this within the right scope. You gave this comment "in general" and directed to everyone that bought SLI. Something like this should have been directed to the grandma that bought an email machine. This is a perfect example of "poorly structured".

I can't wait to get a second card back in my system. However (and this should have been your argument in the first place) I will see how well the G71 performs as a single card BEFORE I buy the second card. If it can handle WHAT I NEED then I'm done. Otherwise, two cards it is.

After reading your post I think the entire thing can be trashed and re-written in the sense of providing a warning to the consumer. Give them a guide showing them how to buy what is best for them. Get them to realize their goals then show them how to attain them. That makes a lot more sense then ASSUMING that all computers users are the same and making gross exaggerations just to prove your point.

What resolution are you trying to attain? What type of apps will you be using? Games? Do you want the best quality or the best performance?

All in all, my advice to anyone since SLI came out is to buy a single video card and see how it performs. If it does not get you to where you want to be then add a second card.

 

[dfonda]

Whats next infinite should I stick with AGP?

EDITED: This was tongue in cheek humor intended to lighten the mood a little.

 

[infinitevalence]

My 2 cents.

The biggest problem I noticed right away is how "stand offish" it seemed.

"The point im trying to make here is that unless you have a 20" wide screen monitor or larger SLI WILL HAVE NO EFFECT on in game settings."

Well I do. So I guess that throws out your entire argument? You show me a single video card that can output 1920X1400 with everything turned on (best detail) and I'll rethink about getting that second video card.


had I already bought a second card I would have in no way "got had".

After reading your post I think the entire thing can be trashed and re-written in the sense of providing a warning to the consumer. Give them a guide showing them how to buy what is best for them. Get them to realize their goals then show them how to attain them. That makes a lot more sense then ASSUMING that all computers users are the same and making gross exaggerations just to prove your point.

What resolution are you trying to attain? What type of apps will you be using? Games? Do you want the best quality or the best performance?

All in all, my advice to anyone since SLI came out is to buy a single video card and see how it performs. If it does not get you to where you want to be then add a second card.

Ignoring your personal attacks:

Your right my first post was stand offish, reason beeing that day i had at lest 3-4 threads started where the person wanted to get two 6800GT's because they thought it was a deal.

These are the people im talking to, not the ones who dont care about money, its the ones who think they are saving $$ by going with SLI that need to know its not for them.

My argument is in reaction to the large number of people who dont bother to do the reasearch and just assume that SLI is better than no SLI. The majority of these people do not have nice 20" LCD's they infact have much smaller screens

http://www.ocforums.com/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=527

Just because you have a nice screen it does not invalidate my argument, it just means that you do not apply to it. The good news is the other 60% of our forum members do.

I also accept this challenge, when i get home i will do some benchmarks on my X800GTO2, and show you that a single card can offer good game play. Even up in to the higher resolutions.

As to the you got had, yeah your right it could have been put much better, but it was 3AM i had Class at 8am and i was already frustrated trying to explain over and overagain why SLI was not going to help these people get better graphics, and why it was going to cost them more than a single card.

Your absolutly right, this post could be re-written, so why not just say that insteed of making personal attacks, it in no way helps your position, which is very good in some cases.

Whats next infinite should I stick with AGP?

Depends on your needs and the size of your monitor, but overall i would never suggest an upgrade unless someone is going PCIe, AGP is dead, it had a good life and we will remember it well.

 

[dfonda]

Depends on your needs and the size of your monitor, but overall i would never suggest an upgrade unless someone is going PCIe, AGP is dead, it had a good life and we will remember it well.

It was a rhetorical question you must be working to hard if you missed my humor. Ah.... thats why I put a smiley.(well not a smiley but the face with the tongue hanging out)

Did you even read my sig?
How can AGP be dead if the only advantage to pci-e is SLi, which you have just explained is a waste????

I liked your thread, very thought producing and provacative. I don't agree with much of it. But thats beside the point. But holy contradictions batman!

 

[JEmlay]

These are the people im talking to, not the ones who dont care about money, its the ones who think they are saving $$ by going with SLI that need to know its not for them.

You should have noted that then and not stated that NO ONE is within the category of needing SLI.

My argument is in reaction to the large number of people who dont bother to do the reasearch and just assume that SLI is better than no SLI.

Buyer beware. That's their problem. I don't think the average consumer would buy two video cards or spend that kind of money unless they either needed to or wanted to. Both of those quality for the purchase. Did I need the 6.1 liter HEMI? No. Does it actually do anything for me? No. Does it make me a better driver? No. But I WANT ALL THE POWER I CAN GET. That doesn't make it a waste of money for the simple fact that I want it!

Just because you have a nice screen it does not invalidate my argument

Actually it does. But only because of the poor wording. You made your statements in general and "in general" they do not apply. You even said so yourself!

I also accept this challenge, when i get home i will do some benchmarks on my X800GTO2

What challenge? I already stated my findings. More = better.

and show you that a single card can offer good game play.

Be careful!!!! Don't assume that your level of "good" is good enough for everyone.

yeah your right it could have been put much better, but it was 3AM i had Class at 8am and i was already frustrated

Mistake #1??? Don't post frustrated.

Your absolutly right, this post could be re-written, so why not just say that insteed of making personal attacks, it in no way helps your position, which is very good in some cases.

Personal attacks? You say that as if I outed your dad or something? My entire post was constructive and to the point. What did you want me to say? "RE-WRITE IT!" and give no validation? I told you what I thought. If you don't like it then too bad.... and I quote YOU:

"ok, flame on"

I even had your permission to flame you! But I didn't. If you can't take it then don't ask for it.

 

[dominick32]

You should have noted that then and not stated that NO ONE is within the category of needing SLI.


Buyer beware. That's their problem. I don't think the average consumer would buy two video cards or spend that kind of money unless they either needed to or wanted to. Both of those quality for the purchase. Did I need the 6.1 liter HEMI? No. Does it actually do anything for me? No. Does it make me a better driver? No. But I WANT ALL THE POWER I CAN GET. That doesn't make it a waste of money for the simple fact that I want it!


Actually it does. But only because of the poor wording. You made your statements in general and "in general" they do not apply. You even said so yourself!


What challenge? I already stated my findings. More = better.


Be careful!!!! Don't assume that your level of "good" is good enough for everyone.


Mistake #1??? Don't post frustrated.


Personal attacks? You say that as if I outed your dad or something? My entire post was constructive and to the point. What did you want me to say? "RE-WRITE IT!" and give no validation? I told you what I thought. If you don't like it then too bad.... and I quote YOU:

"ok, flame on"

I even had your permission to flame you! But I didn't. If you can't take it then don't ask for it.

OUCH!!

 

[Brando]

I have to agree on the statement about upgrading to AGP, assuming of course that you're upgrading your motherboard. Why buy an AGP motherboard if all the best cards of the future will be PCI-E? If you were on a tight budget and only had a couple hundred then of course get a 6800gs or 7800gs to breathe a little life into a pc on its last legs but don't start a new system from scratch with AGP in this day and age.

 

[CrystalMethod]

Ok, I've held my tongue for a week now. A few things you've said kind of irk me. The few times you've brought up a poll posted on monitor resolution is one. 337 people out of 62,461 members is hardly something to base anything off of. (for those of you who don't want to do the math, that's about half a percent, Don't know where 60% came into the picture). AGP being dead, I hardly think so. I sell more AGP systems than I do PCI-E. The prices and scores you mentioned, I really have no idea where you're getting.

Well guess what Im not done yet, you still have that pesky 19" CRT to deal with... Guess what its kinda old so it only displays up to 1280x1024. The fact is that almost any decent graphics card can run every game you play (except fear, and i will get into that too) at this resolution with all the eye candy turned up. I used to run HL2, NFS:UG, Farcry and Doom3 at 1920x1200 with most, if not all eye candy at max on a X800XL which can be had for $250. Now i have a X800GTO2 and with OC there is not a single game that i cant max out on my monitor. The point im trying to make here is that unless you have a 20" wide screen monitor or larger SLI WILL HAVE NO EFFECT on in game settings.

Yeah, my monitor is old. Manufactuing date on this one is May 1998, and it's only a 21", and I play games at 1600 X 1200, and I'm still using an AGP card. Maybe you're talking about my second rig, who's monitor's manufacturing date is August 1997, and is a 21" as well, and still plays in 1600 X 1200 with an AGP card. Yeah, so my monitors are kind of old. After having built a few SLI systems, and a few single PCI-E systems, there's a noticeable difference game wise.

Please dont fall for the marketing hype, dont waste your $$ on SLI or crossfire. If you want to prove me wrong or argue go for it, im always open to new evidence. Better yet, send me two 6800GT's and two 7800GT's i will bench and test return my results along with the cards.

So basically you're saying you've never played on an SLI system with 6800GT's or 7800GT's, and your'e just comparing from what you've seen in the second person, or read, or are you just plain assuming things?

 

[infinitevalence]

Ok, I've held my tongue for a week now. A few things you've said kind of irk me. The few times you've brought up a poll posted on monitor resolution is one. 337 people out of 62,461 members is hardly something to base anything off of. (for those of you who don't want to do the math, that's about half a percent, Don't know where 60% came into the picture). AGP being dead, I hardly think so. I sell more AGP systems than I do PCI-E. The prices and scores you mentioned, I really have no idea where you're getting.

Yeah, my monitor is old. Manufactuing date on this one is May 1998, and it's only a 21", and I play games at 1600 X 1200, and I'm still using an AGP card. Maybe you're talking about my second rig, who's monitor's manufacturing date is August 1997, and is a 21" as well, and still plays in 1600 X 1200 with an AGP card. Yeah, so my monitors are kind of old. After having built a few SLI systems, and a few single PCI-E systems, there's a noticeable difference game wise.

So basically you're saying you've never played on an SLI system with 6800GT's or 7800GT's, and your'e just comparing from what you've seen in the second person, or read, or are you just plain assuming things?

I got most my prices from newegg, and scores from orb, i tried to find systems using simmilary configured parts, and simmilar clockspeeds.

Your right about the number of people responding, so lets look at a larger sample http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp it folows a simmilar trend only as expected we tend to have adopted a higher average resolution. When i say AGP is dead, i mean in terms of an upgrade path, there is no reason to stay with AGP unless you have to at this point. If your getting a new motherboard, why get AGP?

Finaly, yes i have used SLI systems, and i still do write for Legitreviews, so some times i even get to play with stuff thats not even out yet. SLI does have a place for highend benchmarking and monitors that do over 1280x1024. But other than that small group, its use is limited and the performance is not worth the investment.

I had 2 6800GT's in my system at one point, and it was nice, but i found that an X800XL cost me less, and gave me 90% of the game play, then when i upgraded to my OCed X800GTO2 it became clear that I dont need SLI.

I also do use a high resolution, i play all my games at 1920x1200, and in all cases other than Fear i can run with all the eye candy turned on and still average ~60FPS depending on the game, HL2 tends to be much higher, NFS:UG lower.

I really just hope thta this thread gets people to stop before buying and think, do i need this, will it really benefit me, is it worth the price? These questions are not being asked enough and thats what prompted me to start this thread.