• Welcome to Overclockers Forums! Join us to reply in threads, receive reduced ads, and to customize your site experience!

TbredXP 1700 & Abit NF7 rev2.0 boards = Not Very Friendly

Overclockers is supported by our readers. When you click a link to make a purchase, we may earn a commission. Learn More.
Yes, I received one of the first NF7 Rev 2.0's on the planet. I'm using beta BIOS 14. Btw, after dropping a piece of copper wire into the socket, I got scared, and wimped out of doing the mod...very pathetic, I know, but if I mess things up, well, my board is toast. :( I can already cross 230mhz at CL2.5, btw. 232 seems to be the max, but I haven't tried much higher than 6-3-3-2.

But is the NF7/-S the only board that has these issues? Or could it be a problem, with say, the nForce2 Ultra chipset? The problem, whatever it may be, seems to lie in both the processor and motherboard, very strange indeed.
 
hitechjb1 said:


You probably got your NF7-S rev 2.0 early on. What bios are you using?

It seems you got to 228 MHz, with CPU Interface enable, DC without any mod.

For the newer boards with 1700+, maybe also 2100+ (??), it seems to require older bios (such as bios 10) and FSB_Sense mod to get to 230 MHz level w/ CPU Interface enable. Otherwise it would be only around 215 MHz.
hitechjb1, Gautam's system isn't DC enabled. He still has one stick of ram, running at single channel.
 
Yes, that's correct. I could've sworn that he'd written SC. This should make a difference, but, personally, I think the whole notion of a motherboard being unable to overclock as well in DC is overrated. As you may know, Hitechjb1 himself had inital problems in crossing 220mhz even in single channel. It seems to me that if a system has problems obtaining high speeds in DC, it will also have problems in doing the same in SC. This is why I suggested that you just test your sticks in SC, to see if any considerable difference occurs. I just wish I could get my hands on another stick so I could see DC in all its glory myself... :(
 
I have done quite a bit of testing on DC and SC using a NF7-S rev 2.0 and 1700+, CPU Interface enable/disable, I have some detailed number. Instead of listing all these numbers, let me summarize:

Testing done w/ 512 MB x 2 timing 6-3-3-2 at 2.9 V
Vdd chipset at 1.7 V

With CPU Interface disable:
- DC memory bw efficiency = 88-89%
- SC memory bw efficiency = 87-88%
(1-2% lower for SC, this agrees with the number 1-3% I have been using for SC/DC difference at same FSB)

At very lower CPU speed,
1800 MHz, bw efficiency dropped 1%
1600 MHz, bw efficiency dropped 3%
1500 MHz, bw efficiency dropped 8%


With CPU Interface enable:
- DC memory bw efficiency = 94-96%
- SC memory bw effiiency = 91-94 %
(2-3% lower for SC, this agrees with the number 1-3% I have been using for SC/DC difference at same FSB)

At very lower CPU speed,
1800 MHz, bw efficiency dropped 5% <-- fast decode, slow CPU took the toll, went down faster ??
1600 MHz, bw efficiency dropped 5% <-- fast decode, slow CPU took the toll, went down faster ??
1500 MHz, bw efficiency dropped 8%


From these numbers, DC and SC track each other closely at the same FSB by 1-3% efficiency difference (SC lower). So DC and SC are not the issue, we know how they behave and tradeoff. DC with 2-3% higher efficiency and SC with few MHz higher in FSB overclocking. The end result in nforce2 between the two is within 1-2% (can be either way if higher FSB for SC is allowed).

Important thing is that the CPU Interface (fast decode) bw efficiency in the mid 90% for high CPU speed. And the right combination of the correct bios and FSB_sense mod would enable to run FSB stable (e.g. prime95) around 230 MHz. The 6-7% in bw efficiency is equivalent to 15 MHz FSB w/ CPU Interface disabled.

With CPU Interface enable,
For older rev 2.0 board, bios 14 would run at ~230 MHz, memory bw efficiency 95%
For older rev 2.0 board, bios 10 would run at ???, memory bw efficiency ?? <-- need some data
For older rev 2.0 board, FSB_Sense mod would run at ??, memory bw efficiency ?? <-- need some data

For newer rev 2.0 board, bios 10 + FSB_Sense 166 mod would run at ~230 MHz, memory bw efficiency ~95 %
For newer rev 2.0 board, bios 14 + FSB_Sense 166 mod would run at ?? MHz, memory bw efficiency ?? <-- need some data

I tested 3Dmark01/03, it could run as high as 238 MHz stable, but prime95 failed at that speed. Also could boot windows at 245 MHz with very unstable Sandra memory bandwidth benchmark. Some vdd mod to 1.85V and memory timing to 7-3-3-2.5 or 7-3-3-3 for FSB above 235-240 MHz.

I suspect due to memory controller, and CPU decode limitation at such FSB speed with CPU Interface enable, currently seems to be max at around 230-235 MHz FSB or 36xx MB/s integer bandwidth (whichever is smaller), without extreme chipset Vdd mod and cooling.

Still why boards (older and newer, if there is really such distinction) behave differently w/ bios version, and FSB_sense setting, ...
 
Last edited:
Memtest shows even my modest Samsung PC3200 RAM to run at least to 220 in SC. I think something in the CPU/NF7-S/BIOS is the main limit.

I'm not sure even better RAM would give me more.

I'll try lower fsb/ higher core speed & higher fsb / lower multiplier just to see the limits on both.
 
I only have a limited number of data points, but here's what I can give you:

220mHz SC,6-3-3-2, CPU Interface Enabled: 3170mb/Sec, 90%
228mHz SC,6-3-3-2, CPU Interface: 3407mb/sec, 93%
231mHz SC,6-3-3-2.5 CPU Interface: 3391mb/sec, 92%

My bandwidth efficiency is considerably worse than yours. Perhaps this has something to with my being able to reach higher speeds. Also, Cl2.5 clearly looks worse from this very limited set, but overall efficiency appears to increase as data rate is increased.
 
Gautam said:
I only have a limited number of data points, but here's what I can give you:

220mHz SC,6-3-3-2, CPU Interface Enabled: 3170mb/Sec, 90%
228mHz SC,6-3-3-2, CPU Interface: 3407mb/sec, 93%
231mHz SC,6-3-3-2.5 CPU Interface: 3391mb/sec, 92%

My bandwidth efficiency is considerably worse than yours. Perhaps this has something to with my being able to reach higher speeds. Also, Cl2.5 clearly looks worse from this very limited set, but overall efficiency appears to increase as data rate is increased.

So your memory bw efficiency is consistent (maybe just 1% lower) w/ that I measured of 91-94% for SC w/ CPUI enabled, for CPU above 2 GHz.

Have you tried other bios versions such as 10, 11, 12, 16, 17 at all?
 
I only have 1 data point to add right now, but here is what I've got:

220MHz DC, 11-3-3-2.5, CPU Interface Enabled: 3271mb/sec, 93%

I don't know if it matters or not, but I had a bunch of stuff running in the background while I ran the benchmark.
 
Edward2 said:
I only have 1 data point to add right now, but here is what I've got:

220MHz DC, 11-3-3-2.5, CPU Interface Enabled: 3271mb/sec, 93%

I don't know if it matters or not, but I had a bunch of stuff running in the background while I ran the benchmark.

That is within the norm of 94-96% for DC, w/ CPUI enable. Your 93% may be due to CAS 2.5 instead of CAS 2 with which the 94-96% were obtained.

I usually run Sandra benchmark run after boot and after those system routines settle down.

What is the bios version?
Have you done the FSB_Sense mod (or L12 mod), if so, did it help?
What is the highest FSB (prime95 stable) attained?
Sorry one more, when the board was acquired?
 
Last edited:
Audioaficionado said:
How are you guys getting those memory efficiency numbers?

Use the latest Sandra (called MAX3 I think), it shows explicitly the efficiency number in memory bandwidth.

If not, by calculation,
memoery_bw_efficiency = actual_bandwidth_measured / (FSB * 16)
 
What is the bios version?
v1.7

Have you done the FSB_Sense mod (or L12 mod), if so, did it help?
No, I have not tried it yet.

What is the highest FSB (prime95 stable) attained?
220 is the highest stable so far. I tried 227, but it would not even boot. Have not tried any other speeds yet.

Sorry one more, when the board was acquired?
I just got the mobo about 1-2 weeks ago from Excaliber, and I just got my DC capable memory on Saturday.

(edit) See more info below.
 
Last edited:
I got my Abit NF7-S rev2.0 at Excaliber in late May 2003. It has the ultra 400 C1 NB and shipped with BIOS v1.2 just a week before they issued the newer v1.4 BIOS.

So is it one of the new or older ones?
 
Well, I tried running at 10.5*223 (lower CPU speed, but higher FSB speed) and here is what I found:

3.0-3-3-11 => would not boot at all, even with 2.9 Vmem, had to clear CMOS
2.5-3-3-11 => would boot into Windows, but was not Prime stable, even with 2.9 Vmem

Previously, I was running 2.5-3-3-11 at 220 FSB with 2.7 Vmem. I had not even tried to run 2.0-3-3-11. I decided to try 2.0-3-3-11 at 220 FSB with 2.7 Vmem. It is Prime stable so far (only about 20 minutes). Here are my memory bandwidth numbers:

2.5-3-3-11 => 3271mb/sec, 93% (with lots running in background)
2.0-3-3-11 => 3360mb/sec, 95% (with little running in background)
 
Gautam said:
Yes, that's correct. I could've sworn that he'd written SC. This should make a difference, but, personally, I think the whole notion of a motherboard being unable to overclock as well in DC is overrated. As you may know, Hitechjb1 himself had inital problems in crossing 220mhz even in single channel. It seems to me that if a system has problems obtaining high speeds in DC, it will also have problems in doing the same in SC. This is why I suggested that you just test your sticks in SC, to see if any considerable difference occurs. I just wish I could get my hands on another stick so I could see DC in all its glory myself... :(
yep... as i knew, the Single Channel is easier to FSB overclock.

BIOS10
xp1700 + 166fsb sense mod
CPU Interface On
with Vdd mod disabled




I found out that the highest I could run with the 3Dmark stable with DC was 227~ 228mhz FSB. 230mhz FSB was not stable in 3Dmark, quit out, regardless of memory timings. 230fsb was only good for light desktop apps.


With the SC, 236mhz FSB runs 3dmark fine, at memory timing as fast as 5-2-2-2.5. I haven't even tried 238mhz FSB but it looks as if it can do it from what I can tell.




236mhzFSB SCDDR
11x236_3dmark_SCDDR.png





I knew this. As a rule of thumb, the nforce2 based boards regardless of revisions, the ability of FSB overclocking is affected running in Dual Channel. It takes more work to run to the memory channels in DC and more sensitive in load operations than the Single channel. Asus A7N8X boards are the same way, as I've been seeing them pattern when they first came out. Abit, Epox, Asus, and all the rest nforce2 based boards. This had been talked about many times long time ago though.


The Vdd mod made no effect in DC when I tried higher 230FSB and higher. I'll be re-analyzing the vdd work and make sure they are in order. I still have more to work on the DC FSB project.
 
Last edited:
BTW I found an easier way to recover from a non posting BIOS setting.

The manual says to hold the insert key down while pushing the reset button.

Works great for me and sure beats having to go inside the case after unplugging the PS and then having to jumper reset the CMOS.
 
[OC]This said:

230mhz FSB was not stable in 3Dmark, quit out, regardless of memory timings. 230fsb was only good for light desktop apps.

I suppose running FAH 24/7 will reduce my ultimate OC quite a bit. But the true test is fully loaded and stable.

I tried raising vcore to 1.75v and worked the core speed first at 133 fsb. Then I tried to increase the fsb with < 10x multiplier.

My stable limits are in my sig.

Next try will be with a new OS installed with APIC disabled in the BIOS.

I don't have an exceptional CPU like some of you but just an average one. Still not too bad for an inexpensive processor.
 
Last edited:
Audioaficionado said:


I suppose running FAH 24/7 will reduce my stable OC quite a bit.
If your system is stable OC, it should be able to run FAH at 24/7. That's the stable OC.
 
This is what I call, stability.


Prime95@ 2760mhz, stable. run Prime95. That puts the maximum stress on your system.

this is just one of those ordinary xp1700 dlt3c xpmw chips that do 2.4 norm air@ 1.825v/ 2.5 high air@ 1.95v vcore. it is not a God given lucky chip. you supercool it, you get what you want.


2760mhz_prime_19C.png
 
Last edited:
Back