Trying to OC Phenom II X4 820 - what am I missing? (screenshots)

[ironfistx]

Hi,

I have been reading all the FAQs and guides about overclocking the Phenom II and I feel like I know what to do, but I don't know exactly how to do it.

Let me share some screenshots with you and hopefully you can point me in the right direction.

I downloaded every piece of software mentioned in the guides, including AMD OverDrive.

Question #1: When I look at OverDrive, however, I do not see any options to change the things that need to be changed. I see guides and walkthroughs that have screenshots of this program showing more options than what I have. Is there some way to unlock extra options?

For example, this is my "Clock/Voltage" screen:

https://imgur.com/VkZjR

Some of the overclocking guides I have seen show many more options on that screen. Do I need to unlock something?

Question #2: One of my sticks of RAM is missing the leftmost column in CPU-Z on the SPD menu. Have a look at this screenshot:

https://imgur.com/nTn12

The rest of them have all 4 columns filled in but this one only has 3. Is there something wrong it it?

Question #3: Am I supposed to change the settings in BIOS rather than in some Windows-based program? Is that why my OverDrive program is missing options?

Please let me know if you need any system specs or anything that can help you answer my questions.

edit - does this forum prefer links to images or posted images? I linked to them cuz I know some forums hate big images in the middle of posts.

 

[trents]

First of all, please attach pics directly to your posts rather than using links. There is a built in forum tool for doing this. First, crop and capture the images to disc. Snipping Tool in Windows Accessories is great for this. Looks like you've already got this down. Then click on the Go Advanced button at the bottom of any new post window. When the Advanced post window appears, click on the little paperclip icon at the top of the window. The rest will be obvious.

Second, are you using mixed and matched ram? Are all the sticks populating the motherboard slots the same make and model? Sounds like they may not be.

Third, when you post pics of CPU-z, please post these three tabs: CPU, Memory and SPD. If your memory is mix and match, show us a SPD tab for each populated slot.

 

[ironfistx]

First of all, please attach pics directly to your posts rather than using links. There is a built in forum tool for doing this. First, crop and capture the images to disc. Snipping Tool in Windows Accessories is great for this. Looks like you've already got this down. Then click on the Go Advanced button at the bottom of any new post window. When the Advanced post window appears, click on the little paperclip icon at the top of the window. The rest will be obvious.

Will do.

Second, are you using mixed and matched ram? Are all the sticks populating the motherboard slots the same make and model? Sounds like they may not be.

Yes. Is that bad? All sticks are 2gb to give my computer its maximum allowable 8gb of RAM. Sticks 1 and 2 are whatever brand came with my computer (Acer Aspire M3400) but I'm not sure what they are because the "Manufacturer" field is blank in the SPD field of CPU-Z.

The 3rd and 4th sticks I just bought today and are Centon brand. However, one of them (the one with the missing column of data) shows up as SpecTek brand. I called Centon today and asked them why that might happen and they told me that they buy surplus from other companies and rebadge them.

Third, when you post pics of CPU-z, please post these three tabs: CPU, Memory and SPD. If your memory is mix and match, show us a SPD tab for each populated slot.

Here you are:

CPU and Memory (core voltage should actually be closer to 1.2; I was running a stress test when I took this screenshot)

SPD for each slot:

One more question:

I see over and over stressed again in the OC guides that for a 24/7 OC, temp should never exceed 55C. The data from AMD for the Phenom II X4 820 says 71C is the maximum temp. Why the 16 degree disparity?

 

[trents]

I would take out the ram in slots 1 and 2 and move the matched sticks from 3 and 4 over to 1 and 2. Go with 4 gigs of ram until you can buy a matched pair of good quality ram by GSkill, Corsair, Patriot, Muskin or Crucial. You can get 8 gigs for around $40 US these days. Confine your total amount to 2 sticks because 4 sticks creates extra strain on the memory controller if you're overclocking. Go with DDR 1600 instead of 1333 as it's better for overclocking and costs no more.

 

[trents]

I'm sorry but I don't see anything missing as far as voltages go in that pic of AMDOverdrive. There all right there in the lower right hand corner. What are you looking for that you could not find? Keep in mind that the terminology used in AMDOD may be different than it is in your bios. For instance, "CPUNB" may show up in AMDOD as just "NB".

 

[trents]

Mixed and matched ram is not good when overclocking. Can cause instability.

55c max core temp is what we preach as the maximum stable temp though it varies a little bit from chip to chip. "Stable" is not the same as "safe".

 

[ironfistx]

So since I don't have a Black Edition that means I have less access to settings I can change, right?

Do I just change the FSB settings in BIOS then as the first step?

Is Centon/Spektec not good quality RAM? The guy on the phone told me it's made by Micron and I thought they were a good company.

 

[RGone]

Sticks 1 and 2 are whatever brand came with my computer (Acer Aspire M3400) = is that still using the same motherboard that came in the Acer Computer? You do not even tell us what motherboard is in use. And all the various brands of ram is really asking for issues in trying to run overclocked.

■AMD OverDrive™ utility is not compatible with the following chipset models:
◦AMD 780V
◦AMD 760G
◦AMD 740G
◦Previous AMD Chipset models (e.g. 690G or 580X) or non-AMD Chipsets

 

[trents]

The guy is a salesman and salesmen will say what they think you want to here. The ram you have is not known for being quality ram.

Not having a black edition CPU means you do not have the ability to change the CPU multiplier (aka, "CPU ratio"). That is the main and only difference as far as overclocking goes. However, it is a significant difference and makes the overclocking process more complicated. The FSB is the master system bus. The other buses (ram frequency, HT Link frequency and CPUNB frequency are tuned to it. When you change the FSB these other three change along with it and they must be adjusted to compensate for that to prevent instability.

Say, we know nothing about your system except your CPU and your ram. We know nothing about your motherboard, your CPU cooler, your video card, your PSU or your case. It's time for you to create a "Sig" with your system info. This is as common courtesy on the forum as it gives ready reference for those helping you. Your Sig travels at the bottom of every post you make. Handy when threads get long.

To create a Sig, click on Quick Links at the top of the page and then click on Edit Signature. You can refer to mine for suggestions of what we're looking for in the Sig. If you find you don't have access to the feature yet, try again later as there is a wait period for new members. I was told it was up to 60 minutes after the second post but I'm not sure that is exactly correct.

 

[ironfistx]

Sticks 1 and 2 are whatever brand came with my computer (Acer Aspire M3400) = is that still using the same motherboard that came in the Acer Computer? You do not even tell us what motherboard is in use.

Sorry, I'm new to all of this! Motherboard info attached.

And all the various brands of ram is really asking for issues in trying to run overclocked.

■AMD OverDrive™ utility is not compatible with the following chipset models:
◦AMD 780V
◦AMD 760G
◦AMD 740G
◦Previous AMD Chipset models (e.g. 690G or 580X) or non-AMD Chipsets

I have an AMD 880G.

 

[ironfistx]

Not having a black edition CPU means you do not have the ability to change the CPU multiplier (aka, "CPU ratio"). That is the main and only difference as far as overclocking goes. However, it is a significant difference and makes the overclocking process more complicated. The FSB is the master system bus. The other buses (ram frequency, HT Link frequency and CPUNB frequency are tuned to it. When you change the FSB these other three change along with it and they must be adjusted to compensate for that to prevent instability.

Say, we know nothing about your system except your CPU and your ram. We know nothing about your motherboard, your CPU cooler, your video card, your PSU or your case. It's time for you to create a "Sig" with your system info. This is as common courtesy on the forum as it gives ready reference for those helping you. Your Sig travels at the bottom of every post you make. Handy when threads get long.

To create a Sig, click on Quick Links at the top of the page and then click on Edit Signature. You can refer to mine for suggestions of what we're looking for in the Sig. If you find you don't have access to the feature yet, try again later as there is a wait period for new members. I was told it was up to 60 minutes after the second post but I'm not sure that is exactly correct.

Everything is stock so I'm not entirely sure how to look up what types of hardware I have. I've attached a pic of my case to this post.

Vid card is an ATI Radeon HD 5450.

According to the system spects, the PSU is: 250 W (Non-PFC) power supply.

As far as cooling systems, I think I saw two fans in there when I was installing the RAM. They were actually pretty gunked up with dust and stuff. I spent some time cleaning them out and the operating temps are now 10 C cooler than they were before so it must've been pretty bad.

Please let me know if you need any other info about my system!

edit - you know, now I'm wondering how much RAM I can use. Acer's website says up to 2 GB per slot, but the user's manual I downloaded says up to 16 GB (which would be 4GB per slot). Crucial.com said 8gb total. I'd love to have 16 GB but I don't want to buy it and then find out it doesn't work. Is there a place I can verify how much RAM my system can use?

 

[trents]

Okay, so this is a mass-produced box store computer as opposed to one you put together yourself, i.e. a custom built system. Unfortunately, the chances of it having any good overclocking tools in bios are slim to none. And if you didn't see what you were looking for in AMDOD the reason probably is it isn't there in bios. AMDOD cannot create adjustments that don't exist in bios if I'm not mistaken.

 

[ironfistx]

Yeah, it's a store-bought computer. I just want to make it a little faster. Increased performance would be cool but also for the learning experience (if you can't tell from my posts, I don't know very much!).

I was under the impression that the Phenom II X4 820 in my computer was the same one that everyone was talking about modding.

So do I need a different version of BIOS or something?

I thought AMDOD was just locked in certain cases and you had to do something to get all the options. In my last computer I had a GeForce graphics card but the NVidia management software that came with it was limited. There was a way to unlock it, however, and it opened up a bunch more options, including overclocking options. I figured AMDOD might be the same.

Am I pretty out of luck then with my current setup?

edit - seems a few other forums report that AMI P01-A2 BIOS is locked and cannot be unlocked. Is it worth replacing the BIOS or should I just wait and do a cusom build on my next computer?

 

[RGone]

From AMD Overdrive website where I got that list of non-supported chispets.

[Certain features of AMD OverDrive™ utility require a motherboard with compatible BIOS version and may not be available on all supported hardware configurations.]

So as 'trents' said, the options of AOD need to interface with a bios in order for AOD to work well. I doubt your OEM rig will do all it could with the board being a proprietary model made for a large OEM system builder. Those type boards have a bios that is locked down so that most of the performance options are not adjustable by the user and create failures that would have to be warrrantied.

EDIT:
You might take a picture or see if you can capture the AOD open and running on the desktop so we can see what 'might' be available for adjustment. That is likely the only way we might stand a chance of helping further.
END EDIT.

 

[trents]

The issue is not really the CPU. The problem is the meager motherboard bios that doesn't have controls to overclock. To overclock your CPU you need these basics in bios:

1. The ability to change the FSB
2. The ability to change the DRAM frequency
3. The ability to increase the CPU voltage
4. The ability to adjust the HT Link frequency
5. The ability to adjust the CPUNB frequency

The mass production computer companies don't want you to be able to do these things. It would create a lot of headaches for them.

My suggestion to you is to first tackle the task of purchasing your own components and building your own system. You would build a good foundation for overclocking by just doing that. In fact, you could reuse some of your current components such as your CPU and your HD and your DVD player and keyboard, mouse.

 

[ironfistx]

The issue is not really the CPU. The problem is the meager motherboard bios that doesn't have controls to overclock. To overclock your CPU you need these basics in bios:

1. The ability to change the FSB
2. The ability to change the DRAM frequency
3. The ability to increase the CPU voltage
4. The ability to adjust the HT Link frequency
5. The ability to adjust the CPUNB frequency

The mass production computer companies don't want you to be able to do these things. It would create a lot of headaches for them.

My suggestion to you is to first tackle the task of purchasing your own components and building your own system. You would build a good foundation for overclocking by just doing that. In fact, you could reuse some of your current components such as your CPU and your HD and your DVD player and keyboard, mouse.

Thanks.

Yeah I think I might have to build my next computer

In the meantime, the only option I really have access to in BIOS is something called Spread Spectrum.

I Googled it and found it's something that limits EMI and the general consensus was that it causes a slight reduction in performance and should be turned off.

When I turned it off, my Geekbench 2 score increased from 5328 to 5486 and the time required to computer 32M digits of pi in Super Pi decreased from 25:55.181 to 25:28.724. So it seems like a slight increase.

btw I'm sure that pi time is super slow compared to all of you guys

Should I leave it off? EMI isn't gonna do anything is it?

Oh I also had access in BIOS to something called "Cool and Quiet" but the general consensus online seemed to be to leave that on unless you want your fan spinning at full RPM all the time.

I tried some key combinations to unlock BIOS, including Ctrl+F1, Ctrl+F9, Ctrl+Home, and Ctrl+Insert, as some people online said they might work, but none of them did anything.

I'm happy enough with my computer's performance in the meantime. I'm not really a gamer (other than some retro stuff in DOSBox), I just want it to do stuff faster, plus I figured overclocking would be a fun learning experience since I don't really know much about hardware yet.

I have two widescreen monitors and regularly have 15-20 applications open, including 6+ instances of Excel and 3 or 4 Firefoxes each with dozens of tabs, Fireworks, maybe 3 or 4 Notepads, a few Windows Explorers, some live stock charts (I'm not a day trader, I just like to keep an eye on stuff), and usually some music playing. Sometimes my computer slows down to think about what it's doing.

 

[trents]

Disabling Spread Spectrum should not in most situations create any problems.

Cool N Quiet has no direct effect on fan speed. What it does is to downclock and down-volt the CPU when the computer is at idle so that it uses less power. In a highly overclocked computer it can cause instability when active.

 

[ironfistx]

You might take a picture or see if you can capture the AOD open and running on the desktop so we can see what 'might' be available for adjustment. That is likely the only way we might stand a chance of helping further.
END EDIT.

Just for fun, here you go. You can see that most of the stuff is greyed out or already maxed out and it looks like all I can do is slow some stuff down.

 

[RGone]

Yes, end of the line for any overclocking of that mobo. On to the next project.