Which Tubing, & Fittings/Joins etc?

[jalyst]

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Here's some background of what I'm trying to achieve; plus my separate thread for GPU blocks & TIM.
What make/model tubing IYE offers excellent performance & resilience?
I don't care too much about how easily it bends, I don't envisage having any terribly tight turns.
Performance/resilience is paramount...

I got some 1/2" Tygon w/my kit, but I've read lotsa bad stuff about my model, + there's not enough of it anyway.
How about larger than 1/2"(13mm) ID & 3/4"(19mm) OD? e.g. 5/8"(16mm) ID & ?/?"(21mm) OD
I've also heard there's flat tubing which performs better (makes sense), perhaps I should be looking at it too?

After closely looking a what Koolance offers, below is what I must narrow-down WRT fittings/joins etc.
It's hard to tell for sure from their site, but what I've listed looks like the only suitable stuff.
That's assuming there's no better tubing dimensions than circular 1/2" ID, & 3/4" OD.

Many of their parts seem to want 16mm (5/8") OD or less...
Why's that & am I missing-out on some of their best parts by sticking with my current tubing format?
It doesn't look like there's any suitable adapters, but pretty-much every other category is covered.

Fittings, Nozzles [19mm (3/4") OD, & 13mm (1/2") ID]

Clamps:
CLM-19
http://www.koolance.com/water-cooling/product_info.php?product_id=715
Splitters:
SPL-XUFY5B
http://www.koolance.com/water-cooling/product_info.php?product_id=667
SPL-XFR3
http://www.koolance.com/water-cooling/product_info.php?product_id=791
Fittings:
NZL-DXG-V2
http://www.koolance.com/water-cooling/product_info.php?product_id=867
ADT-VL3NMM
http://www.koolance.com/water-cooling/product_info.php?product_id=1072
ADT-VL3NFF
http://www.koolance.com/water-cooling/product_info.php?product_id=1071
NZL-LXG2P
http://www.koolance.com/water-cooling/product_info.php?product_id=680
NZL-LXG1P
http://www.koolance.com/water-cooling/product_info.php?product_id=679
Nozzles/Tube -> ID: 13mm:
NZL-V13-19KG
http://www.koolance.com/water-cooling/product_info.php?product_id=746
NZL-V13-19KG2
http://www.koolance.com/water-cooling/product_info.php?product_id=747
Quick Disconnect -> ID: 13:
VL3N-M13-19S
http://www.koolance.com/water-cooling/product_info.php?product_id=885
VL3N-F13-19S
http://www.koolance.com/water-cooling/product_info.php?product_id=880
VL4N-M13-19S
http://www.koolance.com/water-cooling/product_info.php?product_id=1050
VL4N-F13-19S
http://www.koolance.com/water-cooling/product_info.php?product_id=1049
Quick Disconnect -> Threaded:
VL4N-MG
http://www.koolance.com/water-cooling/product_info.php?product_id=1048
VL4N-FG
http://www.koolance.com/water-cooling/product_info.php?product_id=2033

Valves, Fill ports

VLV-13TSPL:
http://www.koolance.com/water-cooling/product_info.php?product_id=647
VLV-BL1X2:
http://www.koolance.com/water-cooling/product_info.php?product_id=918

Obviously I probably don't need something from every category, but which categories should I favour & why?
Maybe I should get some V4LN QDC fittings for each of the 3 runs in the loop, & "call it a day" for fittings?
That's 6x tube ends, so 12x M/F QDC's; 6 of which must be screw-ins for the 6x inlets/outlets of my WB's/Rad?

These are the 2x water-blocks and 1x rad. I'll definitely use at some point:
http://www.swiftech.com/apogeext.aspx
http://www.swiftech.com/mcw82vgawaterblock.aspx
http://www.swiftech.com/MCR220-Drive-Rev2.aspx
I'll get this or some other single-slot, full-cover, GPU block too.
I'll probably also get a single-slot, universal, WB, if there's one out there.

Then maybe these items to top things off for now:
Flow Meter
INS-FM18 (is it better in any way than INS-FM17N, why's it $10 more?)
http://www.koolance.com/water-cooling/product_info.php?product_id=1170
Flow Meter and Manometer Calibration Testing: interesting read
Temp Sensor
SEN-AP005PB
http://www.koolance.com/water-cooling/product_info.php?product_id=738
Tubing Wrap -> OD: 19mm (assuming I stick with this format!)
SPR-19BK
http://www.koolance.com/water-cooling/product_info.php?product_id=560

What sort of impact will adding this stuff & the QDC fittings have on flow-rate/pressure?
I'm concerned it'll be quite appreciable, & hence I'll want to tweak/mod or replace my pump (MCP35X).
Maybe you recommend more than just the QDC fittings & other accessories I list above?

 

[Conumdrum]

You posted an incredibly complicated list with no descriptions, just links.

You asked questions that should of been figured out already with such a massive parts list.

Why do you need a flow meter? Why do you need QDCs? And why are you buying all Koolance for fittings? And why do you need a temp guage?

It's too much work to reply. Your thread at XS is kinda the same, peeps are done already.

Your making it way too complicated IMHO, why do you need to spend way way over $100 on QDCs?

Posts like yours make people cringe and back off on a reply because it would be so hard to do. Same thing happened on XS, I have been watching it now and then.

Sorry, but thats why your not getting a detailed 2 hour reply.

 

[jalyst]

You posted an incredibly complicated list with no descriptions, just links.
You asked questions that should of been figured out already with such a massive parts list.
Posts like yours make people cringe and back off on a reply because it would be so hard to do. Same thing happened on XS, I have been watching it now and then.
Sorry, but thats why your not getting a detailed 2 hour reply

I think you need to try reading the OP again...
You misrepresent how it's structured, either that or you misunderstand it.

Why do you need a flow meter? Why do you need QDCs? And why are you buying all Koolance for fittings? And why do you need a temp guage?

Figured an integrated flow-meter could be quite useful, you don't think so?
Same for QDC... convenience, cleaner, safer etc.
And given how simple the loop planned is, restriction's not much of an issue, particularly considering how decent my pump is.
I'm not stuck on koolance, if you think there's better similar fittings/joins, feel free to suggest them.
Given that on-die temp of GPU/CPU's way more important, temp gauge is prolly less useful than flow-meter, I could take it or leave it.

Your making it way too complicated IMHO, why do you need to spend way way over $100 on QDCs?

Well if it's going to be that much for all 6x then I may only get 3x.
There's multiple different configs available to me right!?

 

[Owenator]

Sorry, but I agree that your OP has a lot of links that make it hard to get to your questions.

Can you go back through and pull out the main questions you have for us please?

Thanks!

 

[Daemonkin]

Conundrum is right. I tried reading three times the day you posted it. Its overwhelming and way too much work to try and find a place to even start.

 

[Conumdrum]

You can build it anyway you want Jayist. You got a great start and think it would work.

Except the silly QDCs. How many of the long time 'experts' run a silly amount of QDCs? I use none, thought about it. They are silly large and long. You will have an UGLY rig.

Just do it. You been reading lots of stickies, doing your homework.

Sooner or later you gotta man up and just order the stuff. It's just a hobby, not a satellite you can't fix once launched. You been waiting for blessing on XS, we all got tired.

Maybe I should say your list is perfect, and I take full responsibility in blessing your purchase. It seems that's what you need.

My initial reply is why I never get the 'BLUE'. I am frank with my replies and make peeps mad. It's better that way. I can speak my mind, as the Mutant. I like it.

 

[jalyst]

Can you go back through and pull out the main questions you have for us please?Thanks!

I got some 1/2" Tygon w/my kit, but I've read lotsa bad stuff about my model, + there's not enough of it anyway.
(1)How about larger than 1/2"(13mm) ID & 3/4"(19mm) OD? e.g. 5/8"(16mm) ID & ?/?"(21mm) OD.
(2)I've also heard there's flat tubing which performs better (makes sense), perhaps I should be looking at it?

(3)What make/model tubing IYE offers the best performance & resilience?
I don't care too much about how easily it bends, I don't envisage having any terribly tight turns.
Performance/resilience is paramount...

It's hard to tell for sure from their site, but what I've listed looks like all their suitable stuff.
That's assuming there's no better tubing dimensions than circular 1/2" ID & 3/4" OD.
But many of their parts seem to want 16mm (5/8") OD or less...
(4)Why's that & am I missing-out on some of their best parts by sticking with my current tubing format?

(5)Obviously I probably don't need something from every category, but which categories should I favour & why?
(6)Maybe I should get some V4LN QDC fittings for each of the 3 runs in the loop, & "call it a day" for fittings?
(7)That's 6x tube ends, so 12x M/F QDC's; 6 of which must be screw-ins for the 6x inlets/outlets of my WB's/Rad?

(8)Then maybe these items to top-things-off for now?
Flow Meter INS-FM18
http://www.koolance.com/water-cooling/product_info.php?product_id=1170
Temp Sensor SEN-AP005PB
http://www.koolance.com/water-cooling/product_info.php?product_id=738
Tubing Wrap -> OD: 19mm (assuming I stick with this format!) SPR-19BK
http://www.koolance.com/water-cooling/product_info.php?product_id=560

 

[Owenator]

1) Just use 7/16" ID x 5/8" OD tubing.
2) Sorry, I've never used "flat tubing". I hope it has rigid walls because very soft tubing can baloon under pressure.
3) I've used Mastercleer in my builds for many years with no problems. Plus it's cheap!
4) Most "good components" let you use 1/2" OD fittings which are compatible with 7/16" ID tubing. Not sure why that's an issue if the components have replaceable fittings.
5) My advise here is to keep it simple and short (which is cheaper too). Extra stuff adds losses to the system. Hit the basics: CPU block, pump, rad, tubing and T-line or reservoir.
6) I don't recommend QDC's they are nice but add flow resistance and complication.
7) This sounds more like a statement. What was the question here?
8) Like I said above more components and complicaiton adds losses and expense. Cosmetics are up to you that's a personal preference.

 

[repilce]

K.I.S.S.

Larger tubing does not = more flow, it's been proven.. go with whatever size fit's your needs..

Never heard of flat tubing.. wouldn't that be flating?

Best tubing = Primochill (they have lot's of flavors)

That's all I can add

 

[GreenJelly]

Your not going to find most components that support larger then 1/2" ID. I use 1/2" ID 5/8 or 3/4 OD with metal clamps (be carefull not to over tight). My HTPC uses an 8mm and that has quick connects for the external radiator and to use to drain the system.

The HTPC water cooling is for 0 noise, and the other one is for max cooling. The ONLY thing I use is water temp readers, but some of them are REALLY restrictive. We fabricated allot of our own. I also use a few T joints for turns and draining. With the MCP 655, you get plenty of pressure, you just need flow.

 

[jalyst]

Larger tubing does not = more flow, it's been proven..

Can you point to any in-depth article/thread/discussion about this?

1) Just use 7/16" ID x 5/8" OD tubing.

I was hoping to hear about the pro/cons (if any) of diff. dimensions from a performance perspective.
I'll just stick with 1/2" ID & 3/4" OD. But thanks!

2) Sorry, I've never used "flat tubing". I hope it has rigid walls because very soft tubing can baloon under pressure.

I suspect I was imagining things...
I haven't been able to find anything about it after extensive searching.

3) I've used Mastercleer in my builds for many years with no problems. Plus it's cheap!

Cheap is good, so long as it's just as resilient as other makes/models.
I'll keep it in mind, thanks!

4) Most "good components" let you use 1/2" OD fittings which are compatible with 7/16" ID tubing. Not sure why that's an issue if the components have replaceable fittings.

N.P.
Was just curious about why they aren't using 1/2" ID & 3/4" OD as standard.
But they support it too... so no big deal I guess...

5) My advise here is to keep it simple and short (which is cheaper too). Extra stuff adds losses to the system. Hit the basics: CPU block, pump, rad, tubing and T-line or reservoir.
6) I don't recommend QDC's they are nice but add flow resistance and complication.

All the basics are already hit, cept for tubing & t-line...
QDC's introduce more restriction, but by all accounts it's negligible, even if you were to put them everywhere.
They also simply may not fit on some blocks/rads, & are quite pricey for what they are.

I'm not proposing to put them everywhere anymore, perhaps just 4x M/F's.
(i.e. both ends of 1 of the 3 tubing runs, or 1 end of 2 of the runs)
If i see a use for more down-the-track, then I'll add as needed.

So the remainder of my fittings will need to be compressions/clamps I guess.
Assuming I stick with 1/2" ID & 3/4" OD, which models (preferably koolance) would you suggest?

7) This sounds more like a statement. What was the question here?

Never-mind.

8) Like I said above more components and complicaiton adds losses and expense. Cosmetics are up to you that's a personal preference.

You don't think a flow-meter & temp sensor are useful at all?
I particularly like the flow-meter, as it can hook into PWM (via adapter), so one can get 'flow rate' via BIOS or a vendor's Win/*nix software.
Plus it's small & out-of-the-way...

 

[Owenator]

I was hoping to hear about the pro/cons (if any) of diff. dimensions from a performance perspective.
I'll just stick with 1/2" ID & 3/4" OD. But thanks!

Here is a comparison of tubing sizes. It comes from the Ultimate Water Cooling threas Stickied Above.

You don't think a flow-meter & temp sensor are useful at all?
I particularly like the flow-meter, as it can hook into PWM (via adapter), so one can get 'flow rate' via BIOS or a vendor's Win/*nix software.
Plus it's small & out-of-the-way...

I don't think a flow meter is useless just not necessary.

 

[nzaneb]

The only time you will need to pay attention to the OD of your tubing, is if you're buying compression fittings. If you're using barbs and worm gears it will not matter in the least. Obviously there is added wall thickness to the 1/2" X 3/4", which will allow it to bend without kinking. I use it because I move my components quite often, and I do not want to worry about checking for kinked tubing. I also use one set of QDC's on my benching rig so that I can easily swap my loop configuration around (cool GPU's or CPU, or a combination of both, etc...). If you're installing into a case, I don't really see the need to add the flow restriction of that many QDC's, unless you plan on swapping components on a daily/weekly basis.

 

[jalyst]

Here is a comparison of tubing sizes. It comes from the Ultimate Water Cooling threas Stickied Above.

Doh... how did I miss that!?! Thanks.

Obviously there is added wall thickness to the 1/2" X 3/4", which will allow it to bend without kinking. I use it because I move my components quite often, and I do not want to worry about checking for kinked tubing.

Yeah that's prolly the single-biggest reason I'll stick with that format: RIGIDITY.

Best tubing = Primochill (they have lot's of flavors)

Noted, thanks!

The ONLY thing I use is water temp readers, but some of them are REALLY restrictive. We fabricated allot of our own.

Someone in another thread is arguing they're a waste of time, & that a flow-meter is more useful.
Which temp reader would you suggest?

 

[GreenJelly]

The biggest problem with flow meters are that every one I have seen is EXTREMELY restrictive. I have one that has probably a 2mm by 5mm input (10 cubic mm). Now I am sure they have gotten better since the early days, but the presence of one can be rather... distracting...

Flow Meters COULD shut down your machine if the pump failed, but the CPU will probably overheat before they even respond. With a lack of water flowing through the block the CPU temp gauge will shut the machine down (or the chip will overheat and fry) before any shut down can occur. In truth you have the same issue with most air coolers.

So I attempt to gather information. Especially Delta Temp, or the difference between water temp and cpu temp. If I record hot and cold I can tell the efficiency of the loop.

Right now I am modifying the Reservoir to include a temp gauge. This completely eliminates the need for anything else. I bought a XSPC 5" drive bay Res and modified that, but was unhappy with the actual Res. There is nothing wrong with the product, it just does not meet my needs. So I bought another Res. I still have that res and will probably change my email so that I can sell it.

The data I am looking for, is not only data on the CPU temps over time, but also related to the cold water temp gauge. If the CPU/water temp ratio increases then I know the block is less effective.

If I take the Cold/Hot Delta's, and compare it to air temp, I can tell the efficiency of My fans, Reservoir, etc. I can compare different coolants, or tell other issues. I don't keep graphs, just mental notes...

I am also going to be using a fan controller that will rev up the fans on the Rad based on the Res temp.

Edit: Also if you wanted to find Barbs that are larger then 1/2" ID, you will still be limiting your loop based on the ID of the Barb. 1/2" Is nice, but you can go with a low flow high pressure system, though spending a bit of time on purchasing a new water block, I don't see many options for the old 8mm Euro standards. Seems everyone is using a MCP655 with 1/2" triple rads and the water blocks to fit. My now homeless STORM Rev 2 was an amazing low flow high pressure block.

 

[Conumdrum]

What he's saying as we kinda all are, is if the CPU/GPU/mobo (if watercooled) temps are fine, then your flowrate and water temps are just fine. Most of us, and many been at it a long time don't use them. Good ones are expensive and made for a lab bench and have a ball in a tube, not made for internal in a PC.

I looked at a flow rate sensor that was made for industrial automation equipment (kinda what I do at work). It was about $90, small too! Then I'd have to buy a control board and interface it in windows if I wanted to see temps on my PC. Was over $200 for the setup.

On your 3rd, 4th build, maybe if you want to experiment, then buy the stuff. It's just added complexity, and if your first loop you don't need any more hassles.

It's much easier to just load up the PC with furmark and Prime 95 for 30 minutes, look at temps and say it's good for another month or so.

 

[jalyst]

Never heard of flat tubing.. wouldn't that be flating?

I use 1/2" ID 5/8 or 3/4 OD with metal clamps (be carefull not to over tight). My HTPC uses an 8mm and that has quick connects for the external radiator and to use to drain the system.

8mm? That's quite small...
My rad. will be mounted externally too, but TBH I don't see the need for tubing that small.
I can see how it'd make things easier/cleaner, but I'm working in quite a large space so no "biggy".

What he's saying as we kinda all are, is if the CPU/GPU/mobo (if watercooled) temps are fine, then your flowrate and water temps are just fine. Most of us, and many been at it a long time don't use them. Good ones are expensive and made for a lab bench and have a ball in a tube, not made for internal in a PC. It's much easier to just load up the PC with furmark and Prime 95 for 30 minutes, look at temps and say it's good for another month or so.

What's the most accurate way to determine CPU/GPU/MB temps at any given time?
Just use the on-die probes already built-in, + "x" Windows software?

 

[Conumdrum]

You do what is mentioned time and time again here and on XS. It's very common and I'm surprised you don't know. Have you ever built a higher end air cooler rig? All these things should be common knowledge before you move to watercooling.

Okay, here you go...........

Furmark or another GPU loading program.
Prime 95 small fft for the CPU.
If a big serial loop, start Prime 95 then load up the GPU proggy.

If two seperate loops you can do them seperatly if you wish since the heat from one won't affect the other.

Monitor temps with something like HW Monitor, Coretemp, or Realtemp. Monitor idle temps and loads 30 minutes later. If temps are good then your done.

Temps at any given time? If you must, when the PC boots you load Realtemp, set it up to show temps in the taskbar. So you can always see it. In fact, I'm sure there is a way to auto load it during W load. I dunno how.

Or you can buy the high end Aquero, or an offering from Koolance and spend a few $$ hundred more and interface it to the PC with a USB.

Please try it, maybe you can save lots of money and finally just 'Get 'er Done!

Flating is a joke son, a joke.

8mm isn't tiny, it's 3/8" Just fine for an HTPC.

 

[jalyst]

I don't think a flow meter is useless just not necessary.

Is it handier than a temp sensor IYO?
Which flow-meter & temp sensor IYO may be suitable for my relatively simple (no sub-loops or parallel ones) loop?
MCR_Drive(AIO Rad/pump/res) --> CPU block --> GPU block --> MCR_drive etc.

And this...
<SNIP>So the remainder of my fittings (4x in total) will need to be compressions/clamps I guess?
Assuming I stick with 1/2" ID & 3/4" OD, which models (preferably koolance) would you suggest?

 

[Owenator]

I agree with the +/- to flow meters Conumdrum mentioned. Flow meters aren't really what is used in real world mostly anyway. We use pressure drop across and orifice that has know characteristics. I.e. I know the pressure drop accross the orifice at different flows from lab data. To get flow rate I measure the pressure drop accross the orfice and then use a lookup table to give me flow. This is used because measuring this way does not effect the flow as much as a mechanical or other flow measuring device. Also pressure sensors are very sensitive. I did a measure ment one accross my pump to get the pressure it was making. I used this and my pumps P Q curve to get the flow rate.

All you need bottom line, is to keep track of the temps from the built in sensors.