Apple v. Samsung: Apple Wins

[Knufire]

Sorry for going OT, but it sounds like you go to Cranbrook . My girlfriend went there awhile ago.

Cranbrook's private (and very art/music focused). I used to go their big rival school, Country Day, but then switched into the (better academically, way less well rounded) small European-style school I go to now. But yes, way OT.

 

[Archer0915]

Well Steve can look up from Hell and smile.

 

[Supertrucker]

Given that one of the jurors came right out and said they ignored prior art arguments because it was slowing them down, I don't see how this ruling can end up anywhere but overturned. But only time will tell.

 

[manu2b]

Well Steve can look up from Hell and smile.

When you're in Hell, you don't smile... You suffer! For eternity...

 

[Archer0915]

When you're in Hell, you don't smile... You suffer! For eternity...

It was sarcasm

 

[TechtonicPC]

Apple is only the most profitable company in the world.

Not at all true.

Exxon Mobile would be not only the most profitable but also the largest.

Now not saying Apple is not an extremely profitable and high value company, thanks entirely to the iPhone, but thought we should have our facts straight.

I personally do not care for Apple products nor for their strong arm tactics in response to their decreasing market share in the cellular phone arena, however the iPhone certainly has its place, and is a very nice piece of hardware, just not my cup of tea.

 

[manu2b]

It was sarcasm

Sure

 

[jaysonkurt]

I wish the consumers are the real winner of this battle. And I wish android will redesign its user interface...

 

[soulfly1448]

Someone mentioned it, here's a link to a story about South Korea temp banning both parties.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19364875

 

[dippy_skoodlez]

^This. You don't have to build the best product. You have to make people believe that you have the best product, even if it means playing on their ignorance.

"Best" product is a very subjective definition.

And for my personal definition, a reliable unix platform beats any Windows option.

For many others, too. People get all up in arms calling it a "fashion statement" product, when in reality its other users realizing that they don't have to put up with the negative usability experiences with a certain product type, and this is Apples expertise. I have seen people buy them because they're "cool" but every time post purchase, that I have asked what they think of it.... they have never been happier. Isn't that what matters for the casual user? P/P ratios can get your jimmies in a rustle if you really want, but it really falls down to the same difference between people that track sports stats, watch Nascar, or play D&D.

 

[petteyg359]

"Best" product is a very subjective definition.

And for my personal definition, a reliable unix platform beats any Windows option.

Funny, that. My reliable Linux platform and reliable Windows 7 platform have surpassed the reliability of all Mac platforms my friends have. Mac is no more reliable than any other platform, it's just harder for stupid users to infect with malware. They can still break their applications, screw up configurations, clutter their desktop, etc. If users aren't stupid, Windows Vista+ is pretty damn reliable.

 

[Rotary]

Well... Well... Well...

Having worked for Apple myself, at a management position in the European sales department, here is what I can tell:
- A few customers (maybe 10%) buy Apple because it suits their needs for a specific use (music or viseo creation), as thay can not find equivalent software on Windows.
- A vast majority does Apple because they've been told it's better, by friends (few) , or marketing campaigns (most).

Just to let you know: top management people in Apple often come from other main Blue Chips (Dell, IBM, HP...) and don't give a damn about the products! Only thing that counts is making profit.
I had a long chat with the Apple n°2 in Europe (buddy of mine, and I think he knows his stuff, right?), and he was coming from a big company, as you can imagine... You know what he told me when I asked him why he moved to Apple? Yes, of course you want to know! That's because they pay better, and they pay better because they make bigger margins than the competition. BTW, my buddy doesn't use Apple branded hardware (desktop, laptop, phone, table), except the MacBookPro provided by the company.

Food for thoughts for people who believe they crawled through the marketing nukes...

My friend works for Apple for Tier 2 level and guess what, they pay him $9 an hour, now how can you even live? I think even starting off working for Apple is like $7 an hour lol.

I can flip a burgers and make more, Yes im happy they are giving jobs but why cant they offer something that you can put food on the table.

 

[manu2b]

^ To clarify, I was talking about management and sales people.

As an example, with a middle management position, I was making €4K/$5K (net net)per month, and telesales reps between €2.5K and €6K/month.

 

[Seebs]

My friend works for Apple for Tier 2 level and guess what, they pay him $9 an hour, now how can you even live? I think even starting off working for Apple is like $7 an hour lol.

I can flip a burgers and make more, Yes im happy they are giving jobs but why cant they offer something that you can put food on the table.

I'm not 100% sure on this one, but I think Customer Support and call center people like your friend don't actually work for Apple... AFAIK those positions are all filled with "staffing" firm personnel so as to not have the head count in the company's books... It makes better sense (financially) to report all those people as a single line on the balance sheet (Read: Outside contract expenses for 10M) than having to manage the payroll/benefits/insurances/etc for the 10K people doing the work. At least that's how the company that I used to work for justified it when they outsourced all the customer support and financial jobs out to staffing firms all over the world.

 

[manu2b]

^Yes and no. Let me explain...

That's the model used in europe, but IIRC, the same works for North America and Asia:

Computer sales people are permanent employees, after a probationary period, with a basic salary of around €2K and get an extra thousand if reaching the target. This commision is accelerated if you over achieve (I don't go in details there, as it is company confidential).

Ipod/Iphone sales people have temp contract through staffing agency for 6 month (less if they perform well) before they get an internal contract (and usually move to computer sales) or are dismissed.

Support agents staffing works the same as Ipod/Iphone agents staffing, but, once they go permanent, the salary is far from the sales people ones, and of course, they don't get commissions (as they don't sell...).

Apple (usually) does not outsource Call Centre work, but keep it internally (better control, training, sustainability and consistency).

 

[dippy_skoodlez]

Funny, that. My reliable Linux platform and reliable Windows 7 platform have surpassed the reliability of all Mac platforms my friends have. Mac is no more reliable than any other platform, it's just harder for stupid users to infect with malware. They can still break their applications, screw up configurations, clutter their desktop, etc. If users aren't stupid, Windows Vista+ is pretty damn reliable.

I made no comparison to the stability of all of the platforms, I was stating that a unix based platform surpasses the qualifications of any windows platform for my usage needs. For me it doesn't even come down to reliability or malware differences, its the sheer difference in built in OS capabilities. The power of little details makes using my laptop in a mobile environment that is often lacking network access a godsend compared to windows. Someone has an ISO? Linux and os x got you covered. Need to ssh? Linux and OS X have you covered.

Theres more to a computer than raw application quantity and "reliability".

 

[petteyg359]

I made no comparison to the stability of all of the platforms, I was stating that a unix based platform surpasses the qualifications of any windows platform for my usage needs. For me it doesn't even come down to reliability or malware differences, its the sheer difference in built in OS capabilities. The power of little details makes using my laptop in a mobile environment that is often lacking network access a godsend compared to windows. Someone has an ISO? Linux and os x got you covered. Need to ssh? Linux and OS X have you covered.

Theres more to a computer than raw application quantity and "reliability".

Someone has an ISO? I have this little <2MB installer for Virtual CloneDrive (which doesn't even need a reboot) on my USB drive full of utilities for when I need them and don't have internet access. It also has 7-Zip, which could just extract the ISO into a folder. Also, Windows 7 supports burning an ISO file to disc. I've seen single-pack CD-R discs at gas stations. If you must make such comparisons, please choose some problems which aren't so easily solved on all systems.

 

[Knufire]

WinSCP also let's you easily SSH on Windows.

 

[dippy_skoodlez]

Someone has an ISO? I have this little <2MB installer for Virtual CloneDrive (which doesn't even need a reboot) on my USB drive full of utilities for when I need them and don't have internet access. It also has 7-Zip, which could just extract the ISO into a folder. Also, Windows 7 supports burning an ISO file to disc. I've seen single-pack CD-R discs at gas stations. If you must make such comparisons, please choose some problems which aren't so easily solved on all systems.

Playing a DVD? (Windows 7 may finally support it, but all those XP users that are still lingering don't have something OS X has since... forever.)
Opening PDFs?
Saving as a PDF?
create a disc image.

Oh, heres a really good one. Using a serial->TTL adapter without drivers, or oh hey look, even hyperterminal is gone from windows 7 now.

WinSCP also let's you easily SSH on Windows.

Again, you have to spend a minute or two downloading and installing this app. Why? SSH is pretty standard. Especially in an administrative environment. Pro/Enterprise/Ultimate should atleast include this functionality, when even free OS's have it.


All of these actions require third party applications, whereas Linux and OS X its built in. Why work harder than you have to?

 

[mbentley]

I could be the minority but I really don't mind having to install certain pieces of software to perform tasks. Even if Windows did come with built in tools for some of that stuff, I would probably still use a 3rd party utility because they might be better or I am just used to them. I don't really need everything under the sun to be available to me by default. If there were no alternative pieces of software then that would be a different story but with so many applications available, it is nice to have those choices. I'm a guy who will install a base Debian system and then manually install my GUI using the minimal packages just so I don't have extra junk installed. Not having all of the software under the sun available be default certainly isn't a deal breaker for me when I can pick and choose what I want.