Danger Den Maze 3!

[Hoot]

I'm also a function over form person. All my underware are white. Well, at least I try to keep them that way.
Plastic covers are fine even if you're not into looks. The top part of the block doesn't really contribute much to conductive cooling. If and that's a big if, you can keep the strength reliable, no need for all that extra weight hanging on your mounting system.

Hoot

 

[SavageHenry]

I like the plastic top. All having a copper top does is allow your coolant to absorb heat from your ambient case air instead of the CPU.

Yesterday afternoon I received my anodized shim (I broke a core recently, so I decided to get some insurance) and while I had my PC apart, I cut up some vinyl from my old waterbed and made a 'waterblock cozy' (I feel like Martha Stewart when I say that). I covered the sides and top of the block with masking tape, then epoxied the vinyl sheet onto the tape.

Between improving my waterblock-core contact, and insulating the surfaces of the waterblock, my temps are down about 5C (socket sensor only, no better measurements yet).

 

[Ocelaris]

Hey Savage Henry,
You think maybe a shim would work well in insulating the top of the Maze2? Before I was putting foam on top of my processor to seal out air from the bottom of the water block... but a shim might be perfect.... I have a refrgierated system which gets down to 0*C at least, I don't have a thermometer to read lower yet Bill

 

[The Overclocker]

i would like to see how much those crossing gorges on the base affect cooling. perhaps DD would provide on with them and one without?

 

[SavageHenry]

Hey Savage Henry,
You think maybe a shim would work well in insulating the top of the Maze2? Before I was putting foam on top of my processor to seal out air from the bottom of the water block... but a shim might be perfect.... I have a refrgierated system which gets down to 0*C at least, I don't have a thermometer to read lower yet Bill

I'm not sure what you're asking . . . are you trying to insulate the top (where the fittings are) or the bottom of the Maze2?

If you mean the top, then a shim isn't the solution. There are lots of other materials better suited (less thermally conductive) than shim stock. If you're already using some sort of foam in your system to insulate something it would work.

On the bottom, a shim would be better than nothing, and might help enforce better contact between your block and your CPU, but foam would be a better insulator.

 

[Iron Hawk]

Not sure if this has been mentioned yet but here it is:


Danger Den will be offering 3/8" or 1/2" OD Fittings for the Maze3. The pricing will be the same as the MAZE2...and they hope to be shipping by Friday...

 

[_maximilian_]

i know for a fact that the Gemini waterbloks performs better than the maze3.

i think that the maze3 is just eyecandy, DD could have done a much better job, even for a Gemini rip-off model.

 

[Iron Hawk]

Yeah I still think I am going for the Spiral, but I am going to wait for a review on the maze3.

 

[res0r9lm]

i know for a fact that the Gemini waterbloks performs better than the maze3.

i think that the maze3 is just eyecandy, DD could have done a much better job, even for a Gemini rip-off model.

I'll bite, How do you know for a fact gemini will out perform maze3? and further more how can you say the maze3 is a ripoff of the gemini? they look nothing alike as far as that goes the sprial and the gemini have a lot more in common

 

[Ocelaris]

I just got a Maze2-1, northbridge, and Geforce waterblock from dangerden about 3 weeks ago. BOY LEMME TELL YOU THOSE CUTS ON DANGERDEN WORRIED ME... then I went to the gemini website... all their blocks aren't copper... the northbridge and geforce card are aluminum... gee was that a relief... For me it made no sense to buy a gemini (firstly because they're not available) because I wanted a copper northbridge and copper geforce too. The gemini has a better latching system it appears, but besides that, I'll stick to my full copper blocks. And someone mentioned earlier than an acrylic top will be just as good as a copper one, well, no, thermodynamics would tell us that the larger copper plates would absorb the heat first, and serve as a reservoir for heat removal. Remember that as the water channels through the block, the acrylic topped ones only have 1/2 the copper surface area to transfer heat, compared to the full copper ones which have a full tunnel of surface area to transfer heat. I hope for functionality's sake that Danger den still offers the regular all copper blocks... acrylic tops may do just fine for ambient temp setups, but once you go anywhere below ambient, looks just don't count, you're gonna have to cover that pretty little acrylic cover with foam so it doesn't condense on it. I'll bite too. Best, Bill

 

[Haddy]

i know for a fact that the Gemini waterbloks performs better than the maze3.

i think that the maze3 is just eyecandy, DD could have done a much better job, even for a Gemini rip-off model.

lmao wow thats pretty funny....y dont we just wait till some reviews come out before we start crowning a new wb champ...as for it being a "rip-off" u need ur eyes checked

 

[rivercom9]

I agree, no judgements should be made until we see results in a head to head competition. We can speculate, but we cant just outright claim one is better than the other just based on how it looks.

 

[Aesik]

Remember that as the water channels through the block, the acrylic topped ones only have 1/2 the copper surface area to transfer heat, compared to the full copper ones which have a full tunnel of surface area to transfer heat. I hope for functionality's sake that Danger den still offers the regular all copper blocks... acrylic tops may do just fine for ambient temp setups, but once you go anywhere below ambient, looks just don't count, you're gonna have to cover that pretty little acrylic cover with foam so it doesn't condense on it. I'll bite too. Best, Bill

How do you figure the acrylic top cuts out half of the surface area? If the channels are square, it only cuts out 1/4 of the area. Not to mention the fact that the cover itself is seeing very little heat from the CPU. Will an acrylic top have some effect on overall cooling? Definitely. Will it be as drastic as Ocelaris makes it out to be? Not even close.

 

[Ocelaris]

I got a little experiment that everybody at home can play to settle the dispute on acrylic top vs. full copper blocks.

Everybody mark down their temperatures, full load and idle. Then put foam on top of your block, because in essence, that's what acrylic is doing... especially the full copper block people. Test your temps before the foam, and after... if your temps don't rise, an acrylic top probably won't make much of a difference. Of course to be fair you'd have to shrink your channels of your waterblock too... even 1/4th the surface area seems like too much to give up for a pretty hat.


Drastic? probably not, but, acrylic is an insulator, and heat WILL transfer to ALL of the copper before it ever makes it to the water. Touch any water block, chances are every part of it is going to be hot, metal transfers heat 10x better than water does, none the less acrylic.

If you had two identical blocks, one with a copper top, and one with an acrylic. No one could argue that the the acrylic would be cooler running. However the question is how much heat transfers to the top of the block. My answer would be to touch your heatsink, I would argue that its just about the same temperature all over, you can't just heat up part of a piece of metal. Try sticking a blow torch to the bottom for a second, and touch the top! That would be drastic for you.

http://www.procooling.com/reviews/html/waterblock_roundup_part1-1_2_0.shtml

Notice there are already some plastic topped blocks on the market... they just can't compete with copper thermally...

If you want a good use for acrylic, check out the Obsidian Water God thread, now that is a DAMN nice use of acrylic... So beautiful, I wish I had the $$ to make one of those!
http://forum.oc-forums.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=75897

I'll take the copper top thank you. Bill

 

[Aesik]

"and heat WILL transfer to ALL of the copper before it ever makes it to the water"

False. As soon as there is any delta T between the block and the water, there will be heat transfer into the water, period. Basic heat transfer physics.

"I would argue that its just about the same temperature all over, you can't just heat up part of a piece of metal."

Again, mostly false. Conduction through any material, no matter how good of a conductor, is never 100%. In fact, conductivity is a proportionality constant that reflects the change in temperature for a given energy input over a given distance. For a water block with a base about 5mm thick, the temperature difference from point of contact with the CPU to the channel will be about 2C for a heat input of 100 watts at equilibrium. That's a 2 degree drop in only 5mm. While the heatsink may feel 'hot all over' there is a definite gradient across the material. Sure, heat up a copper rod with a torch. I'll grab the end opposite the torch and I'll let you grab the end with the torch.

Now, let's consider the fact that the copper top is not a continous piece of copper mated with the base. Most are attached with an o-ring, epoxy or soldered on. Any of these methods will create a thermal barrier over which there will be a significant thermal resistance and associated temperature drop. This further inhibants the top of the block from effectively transferring heat.

If you look at that linked review, the blocks making use of acrylic etc. have alot more issues than just an acrylic top. To make a comparison, apples to apple and oranges to oranges. Compare a Maze 3 copper top to a Maz3 3 acrylic, then there will be something worth looking at.

Now I'm not arguing that all copper isn't going to be better, because it will be. But if you're going to talk physics of heat transfer, let's get it right.

 

[Avatar28]

I got a little experiment that everybody at home can play to settle the dispute on acrylic top vs. full copper blocks.

Or we can just have someone do a comparason with the copper-topped Spir@ls vs the acrylic topped ones.

Drastic? probably not, but, acrylic is an insulator, and heat WILL transfer to ALL of the copper before it ever makes it to the water. Touch any water block, chances are every part of it is going to be hot, metal transfers heat 10x better than water does, none the less acrylic.

Actually, that's not entirely accurate. Water transfers heat away from a surface quite well. That's why divers have to wear wetsuits because even in warm tropical waters, you can get chilled quite quickly. Water is a poor thermal insulator and an excellent thermal conductor. It just tends to hold onto the heat energy once it's got it rather than releasing it. So in that sense, yes, it's a poor conductor.

 

[Ocelaris]

<"

I think it all comes down your priorities, and value system.

I need a heatsink that I can cover with foam. (I'm cooling down to -5*C with refrigeration)

I need a heatsink that will transfer the maximum amount of heat, hence surface area. An Acrylic top could have more surface area than a copper cross drilled waterblock...

My only problem with Acrylic tops is that it is sometimes reflective of a deeper trend of form over function... And this may or may not be the case... but let me explain, and I hope most can relate:

15" LCD screen .30 dpi $400

19" (17"viewable) CRT screen .25 dpi $400

"But it looks so COOL!" HE he HAHA (bounce off with the cheerleading squad)...

I despise the idea of making a product "cute" at the sacrifice of what I value, which is function. I apologize if my comments were abrupt, rude or overbearing, It is just my gut reaction to shun cute things whenever they raise their ugly(cute) heads... I hope we get to see some review of this, and/or it being available on a large scale. I always approve of more people getting involved in the computer hobby (not like I have anything to say, I just got involved myself), but I hope Gemini and DD both bring out some new blocks. After installing my motherboard with Rubbetex foam everywhere, I would DEFINETLY buy a block with an easy attachment system FIRST, like it would be my priority. (I chipped my core putting my block on crooked ) Anyways, another day, another healthy discussion. Lots o fun to be had
Best, Bill