****ed about BTX form factor

[MoreGooder]

I have just now sent Ahanix an email suggesting a case design that will allow BTX motherboards to be used on either side of the case. The basic idea is simple: Have the motherboard tray and back plane constructed as one unit, but make the chassis such that you can install it normally or in the reverse orientation. Normally, a BTX case will have the motherboard tray on the left side, but by unscrewing the backplane/motherboard tray unit, flipping it over, then reinstalling it you could have your motherboard try on the right side if you want. Now, the customer can decide which side of the desk the computer can sit, which side panel gets a window and so on.

Please show your support for this concept by sending an email to [email protected].

I will also send the same exact email to other case manufactures. Please tell which case manufacturers you would like for me to send the email to.

You're cooperation will be for the benefit of everyone who either loves or hates BTX.

 

[Contra]

when BTX comes out i will cut off my arms in protest

 

[Maximus_OC]

I for one am pretty stoked about the whole idea of BTX form factor. is anyone with me on this. the more research I do the more I like the idea of it all. I mean we are modders and to many degrees innovators on alot of the stuff we do to our rigs. I feel this is just going to give a whole new platform for us to mod and innovate on. I always get to a point where I get bored with my current setup. So I move on to a new venture (ex. water cooling, case mods, ect) I just got done dumping alot of money, well for me anyways, into my water cooled system. I plan on keeping this setup around for awhile. But at the same time I am looking forward to the day the BTX stuff becomes more standard. I can't wait to start modding the heck out of the case, and setting up a kick butt water cooling system for it. Anyone with me on this
"Change is inevitable - except from a vending machine." -- Robert C. Gallagher

 

[MoreGooder]

Maximus, I can certainly share in your enthusiasm for meeting the challenge of modding BTX. However, there are many who are concerned and, yes, even disgusted at the fact that the motherboard tray is on the opposite side for absolutely NO apparent or advertised logical reason.

My suggestion is a case design that lets the user decide which side to have the motherboard on.

Folks, I'm looking for help here. Please help me convince Ahanix and other case manufacturers to build this flexibility into the next generation of cases!

 

[Maximus_OC]

i am confused if you can put the mobo on either side then that changes the way the drives and pci cards would face. that means not only would you have to swap the side the mobo was on but obviously the drives and everything would reverse. meaning the front now becomes that back. i don't understand how you plan to do this. do you have diagrams or something that explains this??

haha my thinking could be way off here. but in my mind its seems like this can't work, or it won't be that easy to do. I am trying to visualize how the pci cards and everything would be setting if the MOBO was reversible.

 

[OutS|der]

k so this means the pci slots will be in the front?
thats just gonna make any case plain ugly
why not just make the cases backwards so the slots r still at the back and the case window would b on the left instead of the right as it is now

 

[fallguy]

AMD is looking good right about now for me.

 

[Silent Buddha]

What can I say? Intel is paving the way!
BTX form factor - better cooling for the Presshot and 1 kilo heatsinks!
DDR2 - adopting new technology but of course the customers have to pay the price

 

[MoreGooder]

Outsider,

Sorry to not be more clear. I'm not suggesting that the motherboard tray be flipped in the direction you are thinking. Flip it in the other plane. In other words, imagine yourself grabbing your motherboard on the PCI slot opening edge, and twisting your wrist 180 degrees. THAT is the direction I'm referring to. The direction you are thinking would be like grabbing the motherboard along the top or bottom edge and flipping it 180 degrees, thus putting the PCI slots on the front of the case. That would be really ugly, no doubt.

 

[MoreGooder]

I heard back from Ahanix marketing department already!

They replied that the idea I have presented is a good one and it will be brought up in their meetings.

Please email Ahanix marketing department and support this idea with your comments! Email to: [email protected]

 

[MoreGooder]

Maximus....

I'm suggesting that the motherboard "tray" be connected to the back plane of the case. Thus, if you rotate the tray+back plane unit your concern would be eliminated. I believe there's a high end ATX case that has a combo tray+back plane design. The entire system slides out of the back of the case. Only difference between that design and the design I'm suggesting is that the case chassis be designed such that this unit could be flipped 180 degrees and reinserted into the back of the case. Thus, the mobo tray would be on the right side instead of the left side as the current BTX spec dictates.

Make sense now?

 

[OutS|der]

ah ok so the pci slots will b at the back like now it'll just change how the case is made
ah ok i kinda understand now well i just hope this new form will allow wayyyyyyy better cooling and cleaner wireing cause otherwise its a total waste of money
kinda ****es me off to know i just spend over $4000 on a new pc and the only way to upgrade to any of the new formats will be to get rid of it and buy brand new again
i always understood my stuff would need to be replaced in time but i was always able to console myself by saying all i need to upgrade would be mobo, processor and ram but now i'm afraid i can't i just hope my watercooling parts can be brought over to the new BTX otherwise it was all a waste
and to anyone who suggests i can still upgrade with ATX, ya i can but really whats the point if its gonna be outdated and replaced

 

[MoreGooder]

Outsider,

Yup, I feel your pain. This whole transition to BTX means a major investment for everyone. Believe me, I'm going to try to squeeze every ounce of life I can out of my current rig. That means eventually buying faster DDR1 memory so I can overclock my 2.4C. And hopefully, video card manufactures we provide their newest designs in both an AGP 8X form as well as the new PCI Express.

Better yet, perhaps some really smart people at Asus will conclude that they could get a large share of the market by offering "transition" motherboard designs. These would be motheboards that would have PCI Express slots and PCI slots, as well as an AGP 8X slot, but in an ATX format. I would definitely purchase one of those! It would go a long way towards easing the pain of this transition to BTX. Perhaps I'll send Asus an email too!

 

[Contra]

i cut off my big toe already just thinking about it

 

[Maximus_OC]

ok so you are suggesting that the motherboard be able to switch sides and then be rotated so that the slots stay in the same locatation. only upside down. I see now. That would mean the whole back panel of the case would have to be able to be able to be changed as well correct? because all the slots and MOBO connectors would be upside down. is my thinking right on this? i don't know why I am having so much trouble visualizing this.

BTW outsider wow that is alot on a computer!! haha my first computer back in the early 90's was only like 3,500 bucks.

 

[MoreGooder]

Maximus, you got it now. The back plane would be connected to the motheboard tray, thus PCI slot openings would still be in the correct position for PCI cards installed in the mobo's slots.

 

[Maximus_OC]

ok cool now i get it. yea that could be an alternative. WOuldn't be that difficult to include 2 different rear inserts for the 2 different ways the MOBO would sit. Since my computer is a couple years old, I will probably just got all BTX/Pci Express when I get a new comnputer. I will just mod this system I have etc. and wait it out till BTx and Pci express become the standard. But I can understand the people who just dropped big bucks on the 3.0 + pentiums, and the latest AGP cards might be upset about this. I guess it was just hard for me too look at it like that because I am in a good position to be buying a new computer about the time this time becomes the standard.

 

[JTanczos]

I dont get the point of the reversed side for BTX other than a money standpoint. Although with the following explanation it might be clear why such a clean change is made.

If it has to do with the direction the PCI/AGP cards are faced why not move the ATX board half an inch up or down? Video cards and other PCI devices could be produced in reverse so the main chips are facing up using the same pin outs on standard motherboards.

If it has to do with CPU and NB being in line I thought E-ATX did that. I cant see why they would want to put the CPU under the PCI/AGP cards as the heat from the CPU would heat up those. E-ATX also split up the PCI slots. I just dont get why BTX is such a big change from whats already out there other than to get people to buy all new equipment. *sigh*

I currently am running a T-bird 1.1 and it gets very hot so I always had my case open. Couldnt do that with BTX based on where I have it on my floor. Sitting to the left of my desk on the floor with a computer stand to hold a printer/scanner and a small desk fan into my case.

the PSU shouldnt be a problem for very long. I mean how long till someone produces a ATX-BTX with 3 inches of wire converter similar to ATX to AT.
Even if they did change everything over to BTX would that mean that you couldnt use ANY of todays PCI cards in it? They would just be flipped upside down and backwards. And how often do you not buy new ram when buying a new motherboard and processor? You wouldnt want PC2100 working on your brand new Intel 3.4C Processor with 800mhz qdr fsb. (just a comparison) How would watercooling change at all? You are still running hoses in the case to different locations then to a radiator located internally or outside. Phase changers might have problems based on their preset heatsink locations.

Now take it easy on me. I am not an expert at overclocking/coling but I do have a couple certifications in computers. Not meant to insult anyone. Sorry if it hit ya the wrong way.

I was planning on getting the CM stacker anyway. 300mm fan on the side seems like a pretty good deal.

Conclusion. BTX *thumbs down*

Having em make ATX Rev 2.0/ATX2 or ATX-B *thumbs up* Would rather drill a few new holes rather than build a new system.

JT

 

[MoreGooder]

I'm glad to see that this thread came back to life!

I have proposed to Ananix that they build a case that can be simply flipped upside down. Take out the CD rom cages, flip them over (they'd be roughly in the middle as you look at the front of the case), then swap the bottom of the case with the top of the case, flip over, then you have an upside down BTX case with the case window and motherboard back on the same side as ATX. It's been about two weeks since I heard from them, but the comments I received back were very encouraging.

I think BTX might be short lived anyway because the future is multiprocessors becoming the norm. The best way to combat heat is to subdivide the cpu usage among more than one core. The Megaherts war is over. Now, it's about actual performance in applications. We're going to see application benchmarks being used to rate processors which will have more impact on our judgements than the simple clock frequency. Anyone can put a high performance engine in a car, but paired with a bad transmision and you might have a low horsepower result. Of course, two CPU's paired up with one bad "transmision" might be just as bad as one, but I don't think the analogy works here. For this case, it's almost as if you have a separate engine and transmision for both sides of the car, delivering twice the HP, but without having all of the heat coming from one engine. This will be dependent on the software design and how efficiently operating systems divvy up the threads to the processors. It's old technology now. Time to make it happen for the masses.

At E3 this week, Alienware showed the world a special computer sporting two video cards installed in one PCI-Express mobo, with a custom designed board that merges the outputs of the two video cards into one image. Each video card outputs the results for half of the screem and the custom card puts them together. They claim that their solution automatically increases output by 50%. Why it doesn't double it I don't know, but 50% increase without extensive new technology is a winner. So, will we see dual processors and dual video cards? Maybe. One drawback: they had to use an 800 Watt power supply!! EEK! Talk about electric bill!

 

[ponkan pinoy]

I'm guessing the reason they said it's only a 50% increase is because the system to split the feed to the two vid cards, then stitch the stream back together is gonna have some overhead. Though that seems like a pretty high overhead to me....