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Fake OEM 9800gt?

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renegade44

Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2002
Location
Phoenix AZ
I recently bought a 9800GT for 59.95 from a reputable E-bay Computer recycler (568/99.6%). He had sold about 40. My guess is that someone pulled them from a large lot of new computers and replaced them with a lot cheaper video cards. Why not? A 40 seat call center certainly doesn't need computers with 9800GT's, right? So I don't think the e-bay vendor is at fault here

Here is where it gets interesting. The video bios is 62.92.43.00.01 and when I google that it shows up as a 9600 GSO BIOS, SANDRA say the video BIOS is dated saturday august 5 2000 and the manufacturer on GPU-Z says Sapphire/PCPartners which I found interesting since Sapphire only makes ATI. The markings on back of the card are G92-270 and 9800GT. I can overclock the card to 700/1000 (stock 650/900) and it scores about 12000 on 3dmark06 Which is probably about right for my setup

here are some possibilities.

1. It's a 9800gt and someone just got lazy/cheap with the bios

2. Its a 9600 GSO with a bios hacked to make it look like a 9800gt

GPU-Z validation

http://www.techpowerup.com/gpuz/au28d/

It's not too late for me to send the card back but for the price i paid, my belief that it's not the ebay vendors fault and it works fine so I doubt i would do that. Especially since its replacing a 6800

I would like to know if there is a way to figure out if this is a real 9800gt though. Any ideas?
 

mattspalace

I been Dolk'ed Senior
Joined
Jan 14, 2003
Location
Stuttgart, Germany
any part number stickers or anything on the back of the card itself? Other than that, you can take off the HSF as ratbuddy mentioned, which is actually pretty easy. If you have some good thermal grease, you can strip off the old stuff, apply the new, and probably lower your temps by 5-10c over their stock thermal grease.
 
OP
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renegade44

Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2002
Location
Phoenix AZ
any part number stickers or anything on the back of the card itself? Other than that, you can take off the HSF as ratbuddy mentioned, which is actually pretty easy. If you have some good thermal grease, you can strip off the old stuff, apply the new, and probably lower your temps by 5-10c over their stock thermal grease.

I might do that in the future however changing the PN on the chip isn't hard.

it would be nice to know if the chip information comes from the BIOS or the chip in rivatuner/GPU-Z etc. etc

I know you can't do this with a CPU. AMD and Intel put the information inside the chip so it can be identified
 

mattspalace

I been Dolk'ed Senior
Joined
Jan 14, 2003
Location
Stuttgart, Germany
Can you post a GPU-Z screenshot - actually changing the core info on the GPU itself is basically impossible without some serious effort and a lot of time.
 

MadMan007

Magical Leopluridon Senior
Joined
Nov 28, 2001
Location
in a magical field
I might do that in the future however changing the PN on the chip isn't hard.

it would be nice to know if the chip information comes from the BIOS or the chip in rivatuner/GPU-Z etc. etc

I know you can't do this with a CPU. AMD and Intel put the information inside the chip so it can be identified

Changing the part number on the GPU isn't hard? I know it's not laser-etched like a CPU heatspreader but removing and then reprinting the printing on a flipchip die without signs of tampering can't be easy. This is really what you should do at this point since the software identifiers can be tricked. If you're not satisifed by the printing on the GPU die there's not really much else to do anyway.

Maybe some pictures of the whole PCB with the heatsink removed would help too though and at that point you can check the printing on the GPU.
 
OP
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renegade44

Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2002
Location
Phoenix AZ
Can you post a GPU-Z screenshot - actually changing the core info on the GPU itself is basically impossible without some serious effort and a lot of time.

GPU-Z now has a function where the GPU-Z information is uploaded to the GPU-Z website. No screen shot necessary so long as you are willing to click the link

http://www.techpowerup.com/gpuz/au28d/

But I think what you are saying that nvidia puts microcode on the chip like AMD and Intel so that a BIOS hack won't work in faking the chip PN via software

I kind of believe that especially since this type of technology is something nvidia (and ATI)should have implemented long ago.

Now my question is what should I do about the bios? Anyone have a recommendation on a BIOS to flash to? I'm thinking about Zotac since PCpartners owns Zotac and I wouldn't be surprised if they made the card
 
OP
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renegade44

Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2002
Location
Phoenix AZ
Changing the part number on the GPU isn't hard? I know it's not laser-etched like a CPU heatspreader but removing and then reprinting the printing on a flipchip die without signs of tampering can't be easy. This is really what you should do at this point since the software identifiers can be tricked. If you're not satisifed by the printing on the GPU die there's not really much else to do anyway.

Maybe some pictures of the whole PCB with the heatsink removed would help too though and at that point you can check the printing on the GPU.

One of the thing i discovered was a rumor (have to call it that since I don't remember where i found it last night) that nvidia was remarking 8800gt for their partners so they could become 98000GT's

if there is microcode in an nvidia chip it would be hard to fool GPU-Z
 
OP
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renegade44

Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2002
Location
Phoenix AZ
any part number stickers or anything on the back of the card itself? Other than that, you can take off the HSF as ratbuddy mentioned, which is actually pretty easy. If you have some good thermal grease, you can strip off the old stuff, apply the new, and probably lower your temps by 5-10c over their stock thermal grease.

PN is 188-06N40-011AC

If you google it you don't get anything but dead links. Interestingy the dead links preface indicate that PN was on a BFG card.

there is BIOS PN but when I googled it abasolutely nothing came up.

92-250 was also on the back. I know 92-250-a2 indicates 55nm and GPU-Z says rev A2

I made a point of googling all the information on the back of thwe card before putting it in my computer

Eventually I will remove the heatsink especially since the idle temp is 66C which is a little high. Since the option of return is still available i would like to the honorable thing and not remove the heatsink yet
 

MadMan007

Magical Leopluridon Senior
Joined
Nov 28, 2001
Location
in a magical field
Well yeah they may have been 'remarking' them but that's because they were literally the same chip. It wouldn't really be fraudulent just annoying for NV to do it imo, unlike someone trying to be shady by changing the writing from 'as manufactured' on the chip.

I get what you're saying about not 'modifying' it (it's a bit of a stretch when just remounting the heatsink but I get you there) but if it's specifically to make sure you weren't sold a fake or modified card I see no problem with it.
 

freeagent

Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2004
Location
Winnipeg!
Here is where it gets interesting. The video bios is 62.92.43.00.01 and when I google that it shows up as a 9600 GSO BIOS, SANDRA say the video BIOS is dated saturday august 5 2000 and the manufacturer on GPU-Z says Sapphire/PCPartners which I found interesting since Sapphire only makes ATI.

PC Partner owns Sapphire, and Zotac, so there is the Nvidia connection :thup:

http://www.pcpartner.com/news_detail.php?belongsID=0&newsID=20070411185537-134307

http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=1044
 

Zap

Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2002
Now my question is what should I do about the bios? Anyone have a recommendation on a BIOS to flash to? I'm thinking about Zotac since PCpartners owns Zotac and I wouldn't be surprised if they made the card

If it works like it should, then don't flash the BIOS. The BIOS number 62.92.43.00.01 doesn't mean much to end users. If 112 shaders are detected and Nvidia drivers say it is a 9800 GT and it performs like one, then it is indeed a 9800 GT.

PN is 188-06N40-011AC

If you google it you don't get anything but dead links. Interestingy the dead links preface indicate that PN was on a BFG card.

Nope, BFG part number for a 9800 GT would be something like:

BFGE98512GTE
BFG = BFG
E = e-tail (versus retail)
98 = 9800
512 = 512MB video RAM
GT = GT (part of 9800 GT)
E = PCI Express

If some site is saying that "188-06N40-011AC" is a BFG part number, they are wrong. In fact, you can go to http://www.bfgtech.com/ and look up part numbers yourself. :thup:
 
OP
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renegade44

Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2002
Location
Phoenix AZ
If it works like it should, then don't flash the BIOS. The BIOS number 62.92.43.00.01 doesn't mean much to end users. If 112 shaders are detected and Nvidia drivers say it is a 9800 GT and it performs like one, then it is indeed a 9800 GT.



Nope, BFG part number for a 9800 GT would be something like:

BFGE98512GTE
BFG = BFG
E = e-tail (versus retail)
98 = 9800
512 = 512MB video RAM
GT = GT (part of 9800 GT)
E = PCI Express

If some site is saying that "188-06N40-011AC" is a BFG part number, they are wrong. In fact, you can go to http://www.bfgtech.com/ and look up part numbers yourself. :thup:

When you google the PN you get

nVidia GeForce 9800GT "OverClocked" 512MB PCI-E Card - eBay (item ...This 9800 GT OverClocked Card from BFG Technologies Model Number: 188-06N40-011AC was pulled from a working PC and tested for functionality. ...
cgi.express.ebay.com/nVidia-GeForce-9800GT-OverClocked-512MB-PCI-E-Card_...

And this

Computers & Accessories around Portland, ME - Oodle.comnVidia GeForce 9800 GT OverClocked Video Graphics Card This 9800 GT OverClocked Card from BFG Technologies Model Number:188-06N40-011AC was pulled from a ...
portlandme.oodle.com/sale/computer/-/has_photo_thumbnail/

it appears that someone was selling a BFG card with that number on it. Unfortunately the for slae info is old and when you hit the links nothing comes up. And yes I know that it's entirely possible that with so little info it may not be that it was ever on a bfg card that was for sale but some other meaning that is lost forever
 
OP
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renegade44

Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2002
Location
Phoenix AZ
I did have a conversation with "w1zzard" the author of GPU-Z at the CPU-Z forum. English is not his native language but my take on what he said was that yes you can fool GPU-Z but there would be some real problems since the driver software would have real problems driving the card if it wasn't the correct card.

here is what "wi1zzard" said:

"the device id is stored (read-only) inside the pci config space of the gpu. the gpu fills in the device id based on a hardcoded value inside the silicon and a second value inside the bios. usually only the lowest bits can be changed by the bios while the higher ones are hardcoded.

the gpu name is stored inside gpu-z and selected based on the device id.

while it is realistically possible to manipulate the lower bits of the device id, changing the higher bits is not possible or extremely hard. it would also result in a non working card because the driver looks at the device id to decide how to talk to the device"

So at this point I'm sure i have a real 9800GT
 

virex7

New Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2009
Not a fake -> it's a Zotac OEM NVIDIA GeForce 9800GT with 512Mb GDDR3

Zotac OEM NVIDIA GeForce 9800GT with 512Mb GDDR3:

Photo 1:

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n164/satur9ine/9800GT-01-Zotac.jpg

Photo 2:

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n164/satur9ine/9800GT-02-Zotac.jpg

& Photo 3:

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n164/satur9ine/9800GT-03-Zotac.jpg

I ran the same exact 9800GT video card with GDDR3 through Everest Ultimate 5.02.1760 on August 3rd, 2009 to find its specs after updating the NVIDIA drivers for Windows Vista Ultimate – 64 bit for this 9800GT Video card. I'm sure it's the same exact card the original poster inquired about. I had the same questions that that person did concerning its legitimacy. Not sure if it came out of a Dell or another pre-built desktop PC. New OEM pull or Like new OEM. Most certainly not a fake or fraudulent GeForce NVIDIA 9800GT. Just a Zotac as someone referred to before. OEM system pull. Still a great card in my very humble opinion. I bought this through another seller on eBay out of the northeast. Turn out it’s a legitimate Zotac GeForce NVIDIA 9800GT with 512Mb GDDR3. Forgive the long post. Attempted to shorten it some. Everest Ultimate Edition will give you more info that you probably ever wanted on anything.

--------[ EVEREST Ultimate Edition ]---------------------------------------
Version EVEREST v5.02.1750
Benchmark Module 2.4.258.0
Homepage http://www.lavalys.com/
Report Type Report Wizard
Computer HPM8120NTV-PC
Generator Virex7
Operating System Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate 6.0.6002 (Vista Retail)
Date 2009-08-03
Time 16:40

--------[ Windows Video ]-------------------------------------------------
[ NVIDIA GeForce 9800 GT ]
Video Adapter Properties:
Device Description NVIDIA GeForce 9800 GT
Adapter String GeForce 9800 GT
BIOS String Version 62.92.43.0.15
Chip Type GeForce 9800 GT
DAC Type Integrated RAMDAC
Driver Date 7/13/2009
Driver Version 8.15.11.9038 - nVIDIA ForceWare 190.38
Driver Provider NVIDIA
Memory Size 512 MB
Installed Drivers:
nvd3dumx 8.15.11.9038
nvwgf2umx 8.15.11.9038
nvwgf2umx 8.15.11.9038
nvd3dum 8.15.11.9038 - nVIDIA ForceWare 190.38
nvwgf2um 8.15.11.9038
nvwgf2um 8.15.11.9038
Video Adapter Manufacturer:
Company Name NVIDIA Corporation
Product Information http://www.nvidia.com/page/products.html
Driver Download http://www.nvidia.com/content/drivers/drivers.asp

[ NVIDIA GeForce 9800 GT ]
Video Adapter Properties:
Device Description NVIDIA GeForce 9800 GT
Adapter String GeForce 9800 GT
BIOS String Version 62.92.43.0.15
Chip Type GeForce 9800 GT
DAC Type Integrated RAMDAC
Driver Date 7/13/2009
Driver Version 8.15.11.9038 - nVIDIA ForceWare 190.38
Driver Provider NVIDIA
Memory Size 512 MB
Installed Drivers:
nvd3dumx 8.15.11.9038
nvwgf2umx 8.15.11.9038
nvwgf2umx 8.15.11.9038
nvd3dum 8.15.11.9038 - nVIDIA ForceWare 190.38
nvwgf2um 8.15.11.9038
nvwgf2um 8.15.11.9038
Video Adapter Manufacturer:
Company Name NVIDIA Corporation
Product Information http://www.nvidia.com/page/products.html
Driver Download http://www.nvidia.com/content/drivers/drivers.asp


--------[ PCI / AGP Video ]------------------------------------------------
nVIDIA GeForce 9800 GT Video Adapter
nVIDIA GeForce 9800 GT 3D Accelerator

--------[ GPU ]-----------------------------------------------------------
[ PCI Express 1.0 x16: Zotac GeForce 9800 GT ]
Graphics Processor Properties:
Video Adapter Zotac GeForce 9800 GT
BIOS Version 62.92.43.00.15
GPU Code Name G92GT
PCI Device 10DE-0614 / 174B-9210 (Rev A2)
Transistors 754 million
Process Technology 65 nm
Die Size 315 mm2
Bus Type PCI Express 1.0 x16 @ x16
Memory Size 512 MB
GPU Clock (Geometric Domain) 602 MHz (original: 600 MHz)
GPU Clock (Shader Domain) 1512 MHz (original: 1500 MHz)
RAMDAC Clock 400 MHz
Pixel Pipelines 16
TMU Per Pipeline 1
Unified Shaders 112 (v4.0)
DirectX Hardware Support DirectX v10
Pixel Fillrate 9632 MPixel/s
Texel Fillrate 33712 MTexel/s
Memory Bus Properties:
Bus Type GDDR3
Bus Width 256-bit
Real Clock 900 MHz (DDR) (original: 900 MHz)
Effective Clock 1800 MHz
Bandwidth 56.3 GB/s
nVIDIA ForceWare Clocks:
2D/3D GPU: 600 MHz, Shader: 1500 MHz, Memory: 900 MHz
Graphics Processor Manufacturer:
Company Name NVIDIA Corporation
Product Information http://www.nvidia.com/page/products.html
Driver Download http://www.nvidia.com/content/drivers/drivers.asp


--------[ OpenGL ]--------------------------------------------------------
OpenGL Properties:
Vendor NVIDIA Corporation
Renderer GeForce 9800 GT/PCI/SSE2
Version 3.1.0
Shading Language Version 1.40 NVIDIA via Cg compiler
OpenGL DLL 6.0.6000.16386(vista_rtm.061101-2205)
Multitexture Texture Units 4
Occlusion Query Counter Bits 32
Sub-Pixel Precision 8-bit
Max Viewport Size 8192 x 8192
Max Cube Map Texture Size 8192 x 8192
Max Rectangle Texture Size 8192 x 8192
Max 3D Texture Size 2048 x 2048 x 2048
Max Anisotropy 16
Max Clipping Planes 6
Max Display-List Nesting Level 64
Max Draw Buffers 8
Max Evaluator Order 8
Max General Register Combiners 8
Max Light Sources 8
Max Pixel Map Table Size 65536
Min / Max Program Texel Offset -8 / 7
Max Texture Array Layers 512
Max Texture LOD Bias 15
Max Vertex Array Range Element Size 1048575
OpenGL Compliancy:
OpenGL 1.1 Yes (100%)
OpenGL 1.2 Yes (100%)
OpenGL 1.3 Yes (100%)
OpenGL 1.4 Yes (100%)
OpenGL 1.5 Yes (100%)
OpenGL 2.0 Yes (100%)
OpenGL 2.1 Yes (100%)
OpenGL 3.0 Yes (100%)
OpenGL 3.1 Yes (100%)
 

Boulard83

Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2009
Nvidia spec :

9800gt
SP : 112
Clock : 600
Memory Clock : 900
Texture Fill Rate (billion/sec) 33.6
Memory Interface Width 256-bit
Memory Bandwidth (GB/sec) 57.6

9600gso 512
SP : 48
Clock : 650
Memory Clock : 900
Texture Fill Rate (billion/sec) : 15.6
Memory Interface Width : 256-bit
Memory Bandwidth (GB/sec) : 57.6

Your Validation:
NVIDIA GeForce 9800 GT
SP : 112
Clock : 650
Memory Clock : 900
Texture Fill Rate (billion/sec) : 41.6
Memory Interface Width : 256 bit
Memory Bandwidth (GB/sec) : 60.8 GB/s

This looks like a 9800GT. 112 SP prove this.
 

Evilsizer

Senior Forum Spammer
Joined
Jun 6, 2002
what makes me scratch my head is when someone works for BFG telling you the PN system. you sit there and tell him he is wrong... i think someone that works for BFG would know better then some ebay scam-tailer...
 

Zap

Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2002
what makes me scratch my head is when someone works for BFG telling you the PN system. you sit there and tell him he is wrong... i think someone that works for BFG would know better then some ebay scam-tailer...

Thanks for the support! :salute:

http://www.google.com/search?q=BFGE98512GTE

If someone passes off a card with a part number of 188-06N40-011AC and claims it is a BFG card, then either they typed in the part number wrong, or they're not looking at a genuine BFG card.

I searched for that part number and got a hit to here, a hit to Ebay and two hits to pages which no longer have that part number. The Ebay seller (probably the same one the OP purchased his from) clearly states that it is a plain OEM card and not a branded card. Nvidia does indeed sell unbranded OEM cards directly to big box customers such as Dell.