FBI wants a backdoor for all IOS devices ???

[Kenrou]

This is the speculation part I am talking about.

As far as this degrading into that W10 thread, LOL, so far, I don't see any barbs being tossed back and forth. So long as it stays that way, I think we will be ok. Forums are all about sharing thoughts and opinions. Its when there are personal attacks things go down hill.

No speculation here, they want a backdoor for their use. We can safely assume this isn't the only iPhone/iPad they are going to use it on, this is a government were talking about.

Edit : so much happens in the US it's easy to put them on the spot every time, I have to assume any closet minded government would try to do the same

 

[RollingThunder]

The government has been waiting for the proper time to test proprietary encryption in the courts
and it's my opinion that the FBI has been chosen to be that plaintiff in the courts.

Regardless of the laws, government agencies are still not sharing ALL intelligence among themselves.
Much of this has to do with big egos and big mouths with top security clearances. Our NSA probably has
the capability and perhaps HAS already cracked the Apple encryption but it may be more feasible and
more logical to make the FBI the plaintiffs in a formal legal action.

 

[Alaric]

My concern is not whether or not to trust the US government (I don't. No way , no how). Once a court ordered backdoor is in place , and it becomes law , the EULA nobody reads becomes consent , neatly sidestepping the 4th and 5th Amendments. At some point , someone will decide we're better off , safer , etc., if we can do away with the cost and bother of trials. The US government has never had power it didn't exercise right up to the point that it isn't enough and they want more. I'm with Apple on this.

 

[RollingThunder]

My concern is not whether or not to trust the US government (I don't. No way , no how). Once a court ordered backdoor is in place , and it becomes law , the EULA nobody reads becomes consent , neatly sidestepping the 4th and 5th Amendments. At some point , someone will decide we're better off , safer , etc., if we can do away with the cost and bother of trials. The US government has never had power it didn't exercise right up to the point that it isn't enough and they want more. I'm with Apple on this.

The proverbial "Camel's nose under the tent."

 

[BobbyBubblehead]

If said phone is in the fbi possession then I'm sure they're already in it.

Even the fbi can Google the words "cold boot attack"

Just saying to speed up speculation

 

[JrClocker]

There is an old saying..."give him a cookie, and then he'll want a glass of milk".

I'm with Apple on this one.

Where could this lead? 3 words: The Chinese Internet.

The government was able to strong-arm the telecommunication companies as the government helped to fund the build-out of our telecommunications system. As long as the government did not help fund the development of the iPhone or any technology in it, then Apple will win their case.

In the USA (the best country in the world in my opinion), we still have the fundamental inalienable rights as defined by our Declaration of Independence, and made law by our Constitution and Bill of Rights. Occasionally, we stumble from these documents (like the Japanese Internment camps in World War II), but we always seem to eventually get it right.

 

[BobbyBubblehead]

^^^probably want to take a step back and view the implications globally.

Russia and China will come knocking on apples door with fbi like demands sooner or later.

Right now Chinese consumer confidence is getting a boost out of this story. Which I'm sure apple is delighted about no end.

It's a bit Lord of the rings really... One backdoor to rule them all!

I'm sure the fbi have been shoved forward with this particular case quite strategically

 

[Kenrou]

We're halfway to the Chinese Internet as it is, we're slowly being pushed to upgrade to a OS that records everything you do/type/watch and sends the info back to MS to then be shared with the government at a moments notice. As Bobby said, take a step back and view the implications globally.

In my point of view, if this was confined to the US probably nobody would make much of a fuss, but W10 is global. You're spying on other countries companies/governments/homes. And of course everyone is going to install it, everyone that wants to game on a desktop has to install Windows, other OS are crap for it, everyone wants MS Office, everyone wants Windows for their company, most never heard of IOS, Linux, UNIX and others, I have a cousin that thought iPhones had Windows on it (almost slapped him).

(End of rant)

Getting back on point, the FBI wants a backdoor to a iPhone correct ? Says nothing on the court bill that they have to destroy it after using it in that particular iPhone. Assume they will use it on others afterwards therefore effectively ****ting on your "constitutional rights" same as W10 is doing at the moment. Maybe of course just a case of the government browbeating a major company that got too uppity ? Or both. Let's see how it goes in the next couple weeks

 

[knoober]

Says nothing on the court bill that they have to destroy it after using it in that particular iPhone.

There isnt anything that says that Apple cant rewrite their source code and close the door for nextgen either. Then fthe public would be forced to be vulnerable to the backdoor or buy the nextgen. How Apple plays this is going to really affect my opinions of their company (but not my purchase of their products -- too expensive for my wallet)

Seems like freedom is starting to come at a monetary cost isnt it ?

 

[Kenrou]

You really think they are going to let Apple get away with rewriting the code straight after ? Or have you any idea just how hard it is to do something like that, put away years of work and start from scratch ? This isn't simply a case a plugging a backdoor sadly, this is a multi billion dollar company which has this code in every device they sell.

 

[EarthDog]

Why would they need to reinvent the wheel? Why not a different encryption, since that is what they want around, and push it out to the devices in an update? I don't really know how the iOS works, but encryption is a layer in the software/OS AFAIK?

(for the record, I don't think that is a realistic solution in any form and agree with you K)

 

[Kenrou]

Doesn't a backdoor bypass encryption completely to give you root access ? (my programmer/hacker days died in the 90s...)

 

[EarthDog]

Im not entirely sure. From what (little) I know, they are bypassing the encryption for full access. To my uneducated (on this subject) mind, change the locks on the door (encryption) don't rebuild the house (code/OS) if possible.

 

[saturn]

Nothing new here.


Also I have a friend that works for apple, he is a dev for IOS and he's told me that there was once back doors in IOS but they have been long removed and nothing he knows of is put in place deliberately.

They are getting a court order, according what I heard on NPR, because Apple will not do it, period. I don't recall hearing anything regarding the FBI wanting to know the process/have access to the software. They just want it done.

Did I miss that request by the FBI to 'know how'?

A court order will not fly for this, unless if someone is willing give into it. They will need a warrant for this kind of thing.

If they do this they will have to explain in a courtroom how they came by the information. Illegally. Even the NSA and CIA dont want to do that.

If they legally came into possession of the encrypted device than they can do just about whatever they need to to the encrypted device to decrypt it. It's when they when they come into possession of it illegally that they can't. Keep in mind that the 5th amendment dose not quite apply to computers or phones when there is a warrant to search it.

They can even desolderer the flash chips on a SSD to image etch chip without trim getting in the way if they have a warrant to search the SSD.
If you really what to know what the government can and can't do take a computer forensics course or read up it.

 

[wagex]

Nothing new here.


Also I have a friend that works for apple, he is a dev for IOS and he's told me that there was once back doors in IOS but they have been long removed and nothing he knows of is put in place deliberately.



A court order will not fly for this, unless if someone is willing give into it. They will need a warrant for this kind of thing.



If they legally came into possession of the encrypted device than they can do just about whatever they need to to the encrypted device to decrypt it. It's when they when they come into possession of it illegally that they can't. Keep in mind that the 5th amendment dose not quite apply to computers or phones when there is a warrant to search it.

They can even desolderer the flash chips on a SSD to image etch chip without trim getting in the way if they have a warrant to search the SSD.
If you really what to know what the government can and can't do take a computer forensics course or read up it.

i have a friend that works at apple, they said they use a door stop to keep the back door cracked open while they go outback for a smoke break.

 

[Blaylock]

LMAO. Funny stuff right there. I don't care who you are.

 

[knoober]

Why would they need to reinvent the wheel? Why not a different encryption, since that is what they want around, and push it out to the devices in an update? I don't really know how the iOS works, but encryption is a layer in the software/OS AFAIK?

(for the record, I don't think that is a realistic solution in any form and agree with you K)

You really think they are going to let Apple get away with rewriting the code straight after ? Or have you any idea just how hard it is to do something like that, put away years of work and start from scratch ? This isn't simply a case a plugging a backdoor sadly, this is a multi billion dollar company which has this code in every device they sell.

I dont think they are the boss of Apple and if Apple wanted to "stick it to the man" that is what they could do. Apple is the master of their software and their company, not the FBI/NSA/CIA or anyone else. Then the FBI would need a different court order to have another backdoor built. But now I didnt mean a complete rebuild (even though I kind of implied as much- I just wasnt being carefull with what I said). What I mean is that the order can be nullified. Even if the FBI tries to keep the backdoor open, it can be closed. Perhaps a court order could change that, but I dont think so. Hell if the order is too horrible Apple can disband and for a new company called Red Delicious

Not to mention any of the other legal stuff that Apple's legal team is sure to come up with

If you really what to know what the government can and can't do take a computer forensics course or read up it.

its on my "To-do" list. Still catching up on other stuffs. But I am definately interested in forensics, b ut dont know much more than the name.

 

[Alaric]

And the situation escalates...http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/us...g-case/ar-BBpIbeA?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=mailsignout

 

[JLK03F150]

Here's my understanding of what the FBI wants - and I heard it on Limbaugh, so grain of salt. lol

They want a device that can plug into the lightning port which will turn off the 10 wrong passwords & wipe feature and the time delay after wrong password feature. Then they want to be able to brute-force all the 4 and 6 number passwords. Then the encrypted texts on the phone - in their possession - can be inspected for clues. Of course it's extremely possible that Apple will be unable to even create such a device.

I think the only thing they are after are encrypted texts because this phone is work issued. Probably all the emails (and more) are on his job's Outlook server and already in the FBI's hands. The wireless carrier has also given them all the call logs.

 

[Alaric]

A simple device , that once in their possession , can be reverse engineered and will eventually find its way in to the hands of local police. Easily purchased with all those "anti-terrorism" funds the police get. You know , the funds they buy armored cars and anti tank weapons with. I'm still with Apple on this one. Crack it for the feds if they can , but no way give the FBI the technology. The smart thing would be for employers to have a back door installed before issuing work phones , a universal password for the "fleet" of phones.