First build in 20 years

[SonicRising]

Okay, this GPU war is starting to frustrate the crap outta me. I have spent most of my weekend looking at 670 vs 680, 680SLI vs 690, 690 vs crossfire 7970's and looked at benchmark after benchmark and some sites saying the 7970 is the most powerful card after benchmark testing, and other sites saying the 680 is the most powerful card after benchmark testing UGGHH

So then the light came on, Just pick one dummy, it doesn't freaking matter. That's basically what its all boiled down too. Do I run FRAPS ??, No, do I really care about 132fps vs 129fps in B3? No, I'm pretty sure your eye cant even see the difference anyway. Both the 670, the 680 and the 7970 are bad *** cards and run fantastic. The 690 however is did decide to bench as a choice simply because I think I would get better performance running 680's SLI for around the same price (still wanna research that a little more, I did see a benchmark of 3x670sli vs one 690 and the 670's won, but the guy said running 3x670's would cost the same as one 690, but I cant find a 670 for 3rd the price of a 690 anywhere so I don't know what that was all about).

I also saw a couple of benchmarks comparing crossfire 7970's vs 680 SLI and there doesn't seem to be that much difference in the grand scheme of things, AMD runs some games better, and Nvidia runs others better, So it boils down to picking a brand, and I've always been partial to Nvidia.

I would like to run SLI cards, so now I think I'm going to go with 2x670's. If I can fit them both in the case with that huge *** Noctua cooling unit, I may need to go liquid cooling but we'll see.

Some may say, why not go with 2x680's, well it comes down to cost vs performance times 2. And I don't see the 670 outperforming the 680's by enough to justify the extra cost, especially buying 2 of them.

I will be getting the FTW editions for the better cooling aspects of the cards vs the SC models.

So thanks very much for everyones input on this build, I am excited to get started.

Cheers

 

[ssjwizard]

Gratz, glad you came to a decision! I'm certain you wont be disappointed.

 

[Knufire]

The EVGA FTWs are actually GTX680 PCBs with a GTX670 chip on them as well.

 

[Conumdrum]

If you get xx 670's and want to possibly watercool them down the road, make sure you can watercool them with a full cover block. If it's a non-reference 670, the block might not fit. Then you'll have to use the GPU chip only waterblock and air cooling on the Vrams/Vregs. It'll work, but not as pretty. GPU only blocks can be used on later blocks most likely, that's what we have seen over the years.

Use EK configurator for EK blocks and you'll just have to be careful on other block brands.

Is your mobo a double distance slot for PCIe? If not I'll assure you using air cooling your top card is gonna get warm, 10-15C above the bottom card due to the card intake being starved by the second card, it's less than 1/2" space, more like almost 1/4".

Thats why SLI users submit to the expensive but fun watercooling hobby if they can. And ATI/AMD is in the same boat when it comes to space between cards.

Just some thoughts.

 

[Knufire]

EVGA GTX670 FTWs fit reference 680 blocks, since they're the same PCB.

 

[SonicRising]

If you get xx 670's and want to possibly watercool them down the road, make sure you can watercool them with a full cover block. If it's a non-reference 670, the block might not fit. Then you'll have to use the GPU chip only waterblock and air cooling on the Vrams/Vregs. It'll work, but not as pretty. GPU only blocks can be used on later blocks most likely, that's what we have seen over the years.

Use EK configurator for EK blocks and you'll just have to be careful on other block brands.

Is your mobo a double distance slot for PCIe? If not I'll assure you using air cooling your top card is gonna get warm, 10-15C above the bottom card due to the card intake being starved by the second card, it's less than 1/2" space, more like almost 1/4".


Thats why SLI users submit to the expensive but fun watercooling hobby if they can. And ATI/AMD is in the same boat when it comes to space between cards.

Just some thoughts.

Thanks for the heads up on that, I have the ASUS P9X79 Pro MB, it has 3 way SLI/Crossfire support so the slots seem spaced far enough apart, but not entirely sure because I haven't seen the cards in there yet. My Antec Case also has 2 x 120mm intake fans, and 1 x 200mm top and 1 x 120 mm rear exhaust fans, so hopefully that will keep the air flowing sufficiently enough to not cause a problem with over heating the top GPU. I will keep and eye on the temps while running games to be sure.

Thanks again

 

[SonicRising]

The EVGA FTWs are actually GTX680 PCBs with a GTX670 chip on them as well.

Which is all good, but does the FTW version not have a larger cooling fan then the SC model??, that's what I was going for more then anything with that choice.

 

[Knufire]

Straight cooling power, the Gigabyte Windforce/ASUS DCII are better choices. You go EVGA because they have the best customer support.

 

[ivanlabrie]

EVGA gtx670 ftw is a great choice, great performance and customer support.
But with current drivers 7970's outperform it by quite a bit.
It's your choice in the end, but remember that most reviews use different drivers, and I've seen many with old AMD drivers which had much less performance.
Gigabyte has good customer support too, but not at EVGA's level, but anyways, I'd grab a 7970 Windforce, but that's just me.

 

[SonicRising]

EVGA gtx670 ftw is a great choice, great performance and customer support.
But with current drivers 7970's outperform it by quite a bit.
It's your choice in the end, but remember that most reviews use different drivers, and I've seen many with old AMD drivers which had much less performance.
Gigabyte has good customer support too, but not at EVGA's level, but anyways, I'd grab a 7970 Windforce, but that's just me.

It seems to me that because AMD and Nvidia are the 2 biggest competitors in the GPU market that they would and should regularly study each others product to ensure that the competition does not have a direct advantage. That is why both products are so similar in performance. Much like any other products on the market, you get what you pay for and most time it comes down to brand preference. I fully believe what you say to be true, but it may only be true as of right now. Next week Nvidia could pump out a driver that makes its card out perform AMD. Its the age old battle for supremacy and we as consumers have to ride the wave and hope for the best most of the time.

I do have a preference to Nvidia but I am in no way an nvidia fan any more then I am an AMD fan, I am just looking for the best product for my money, and it this case it seems to come down to just making a choice.

Having said all that, I will admit that even though I have been looking at benchmarks, I have been looking at it from a Nvidia vs AMD point of view instead of an AMD vs Nvidia perspective and a lot of times searching things online in this way tends to show results that may sometimes be biased as to sway people into one direction over another. (I am fully convinced the internet is corrupt with en-genius marketing schemes ) So in due diligence I will give AMD it's fair chance and search benchmarks again and this time include latest drivers in my search.

Thanks again for the input.

 

[Knufire]

It's pretty much like this, NVIDIA technically has the faster product out, but AMD just keeps cutting their prices so they're the better buy.

Take a look at both the flagship cards, for example, the GTX680 vs the Radeon 7970. Both perform similar, but the GTX runs cooler and consumes less power. However, you can get the 7970 at the same price of the GTX670, which is a step down from the GTX680.

GTX680 --> Not worth money
GTX670 vs 7970 --> 7970 wins
GTX660Ti vs 7950 --> Close, but 7950 wins
7870 vs GTX660 vs 7850 --> All are good at their respective prices.

Note that some games are hugely biased towards one side or another as well. BF3 is HUGELY NVIDIA biased, while Dirt 3 is very AMD biased. You also want to consider what games you play the most.

Finally, if you do any sort of media editing, you want to research if your software supports CUDA acceleration (NVIDIA) or OpenGL/OpenCL acceleration (supports both, but AMD tends to perform better).

 

[SonicRising]

It's pretty much like this, NVIDIA technically has the faster product out, but AMD just keeps cutting their prices so their the better buy.

Take a look at both the flagship cards, for example, the GTX680 vs the Radeon 7970. Both perform similar, but the GTX runs cooler and consumes less power. However, you can get the 7970 at the same price of the GTX670, which is a step down from the GTX680.

GTX680 --> Not worth money
GTX670 vs 7970 --> 7970 wins
GTX660Ti vs 7950 --> Close, but 7950 wins
7870 vs GTX660 vs 7850 --> All are good at their respective prices.

Note that some games are hugely biased towards one side or another as well. BF3 is HUGELY NVIDIA biased, while Dirt 3 is very AMD biased. You also want to consider what games you play the most.

Finally, if you do any sort of media editing, you want to research if your software supports CUDA acceleration (NVIDIA) or OpenGL/OpenCL acceleration (supports both, but AMD tends to perform better).

Now that is a straight forward unbiased piece of info right there, that's what I was looking for at the beginning. I have never played BF3 but I am a huge lover of FPS games online, I notice it is used a lot in benchmark testing and I can see why, I am however a huge Ghost Recon fan and although the PC version of Future Soldier has a few issues right now, I am looking forward to getting into that game online, but if it turns out to be a let down (which it currently seems to be to PC gamers because Ubisoft seemed to be more concerned about console gamers and released a horribly buggy pc version that was not even close to being ready for release) Then BF3 will likely be a big game for me. Also the new Alien Colonial Marines is way up there on my list but that doesn't release until Feb 2013. Other then that most of my gaming is WoW and Diablo 3, WoW not being a game that stresses high end GPU's by any stretch so no worries there. My main concern is that any new games that come out like the graphically intense ones you tend to see on benchmark test, I will have no worries about being able to max the settings and run them with ease. That's really what I want at the end of the day. Oh and I didn't mention that the only PC games I currently play are WOW and Diablo 3, ALL of my other gaming is done on console but the whole reason I am building this PC is because I am making the switch from console to PC for all my gaming. So there is likely going to be a huge library of games added once this build is complete because there are a lot of games I would love to play on PC that were just bad ports on the consoles.

And from your statement, I'm better off with crossfire 7970 then SLI 670's for the same price. I will look into that.

 

[ivanlabrie]

Hope your pc gaming experience is a blast!
Please post some pics when you're done and perhaps some benchmark runs

 

[SonicRising]

Hope your pc gaming experience is a blast!
Please post some pics when you're done and perhaps some benchmark runs

Thanks and I will.

Okay so now I have another question for all you guru's. I was watching Singularity computers on Youtube, you all know what I'm talking about here, and before you start, NO I don't want to build a custom loop cooling system (although it looks super cool...no pun intented )

What I did see in one particular video was the client wanting to liquid cool EVERYTHING!!! I can understand GPU's and CPU but he was even liquid cooling the Ram and the Motherboard chipset..Is this a common thing?? I mean, do I need to be concerned about my ram overheating if I OC it??? Do I need to worry about my MB chipset overheating?? Or is this just someone with more money then brains and just wants bragging rights and a super awesome looking machine.

 

[Soulcatcher668]

It's 99% a 'because I can thing'. Ram cooling especially because it tends to constrict the flow in your loop.

 

[ivanlabrie]

Chipset and vrm cooling is good for x79 motherboards, the higher tdp 3930k and 3960x do heat them up nicely...and can limit overclocking stability.

 

[SonicRising]

Chipset and vrm cooling is good for x79 motherboards, the higher tdp 3930k and 3960x do heat them up nicely...and can limit overclocking stability.

LOL, I'm sorry I asked, so now I gotta look into cooling for that too...Maybe I should just get the guy from Singularity to build me a computer and sell a kidney on e-bay to pay for it.

 

[ivanlabrie]

Na, not really...if you get a good quality board you won't need that unless you plan on going for 5ghz on a 3930k

 

[SonicRising]

Na, not really...if you get a good quality board you won't need that unless you plan on going for 5ghz on a 3930k

Well my Motherboard is the P9x79 pro, but I have been thinking about upgrading that to the Rampage IV Extreme, I haven't yet decided but I need to choose before Thursday which is build day. And my CPU is a 3930K and I was hoping to push it to 4.4 or so, but I haven't even checked to see if that's a number I could stably attain. I haven't OC'd a CPU in a very long time.

 

[eskimochaos]

Well my Motherboard is the P9x79 pro, but I have been thinking about upgrading that to the Rampage IV Extreme, I haven't yet decided but I need to choose before Thursday which is build day. And my CPU is a 3930K and I was hoping to push it to 4.4 or so, but I haven't even checked to see if that's a number I could stably attain. I haven't OC'd a CPU in a very long time.

4.4 with the 3930k is a cakewalk.