FREEZER extension WHAT!?!!!

[doyousmoke]

You do realize that if you dont want your water sub ambient, then you are talking about gaining 2-5c over a non chilled good loop right? Because thats all the water is over ambient in a good loop.

i find that really hard to believe... so youre saying i gain 2-5c if my loop is flowing between 69-71f over a loop that runs 80 or 90f??? i know when my loop is room temp on my H100, i get 55c on max load... when it runs for an hour on max load, the loop and radiator heat up and the processor heats to 65c. that's not even overclocked. so if i overclock, i bet the difference between a cool loop and fully warmed loop is even greater than what i see now, which is already twice what you claim

 

[m0r7if3r]

You really don't understand dT do you?

 

[doyousmoke]

You really don't understand dT do you?

dT? i must be missing something. do tell... or better, shoot me a link

 

[m0r7if3r]

http://www.overclockers.com/guide-deltat-water-cooling/

Basically the idea is that the more rad you have, the better blocks you have, the more flow you have, etc, the closer your water temp gets to ambient. Because you are running the H100, your water temp probably sucks pretty hard right now (compared to a custom loop where an acceptable dT starts at 10C and only goes down from there), so just the switch to a real loop would give you an immediate drop in temps, not all watercooling is equal.

 

[doyousmoke]

http://www.overclockers.com/guide-deltat-water-cooling/

Basically the idea is that the more rad you have, the better blocks you have, the more flow you have, etc, the closer your water temp gets to ambient. Because you are running the H100, your water temp probably sucks pretty hard right now (compared to a custom loop where an acceptable dT starts at 10C and only goes down from there), so just the switch to a real loop would give you an immediate drop in temps, not all watercooling is equal.

this is all from that link you posted

DT is the foundation of your water cooling loop. The better your DT, the cooler your chips are. In water cooling, DT is simply the difference between the ambient air temperature and the water temperature on the outgoing side of the radiator. Room temperature vs. water temperature: that’s it. You can’t remove all the heat – no system is 100% efficient, nor can you go below ambient room temperature.

A CPU loop needs a good DT. Under 10°C is just fine, getting closer to 5°C is very nice and important if you want big overclocks. Getting under 5°C is just overdoing it, unless you’re very extreme, need it for benching or just want a challenge. On an average CPU loop shoot for under 10°C and adjust your overclocks to be fine under the temperatures suggested by the CPU and GPU manufacturers.

THIS JUST SAID THAT DT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN AMBIENT AIR TEMP AND THE WATER TEMP... THEN IT SAYS A SMALLER DIFFERENCE IS BETTER. so this mean they're talking about the water being warmer than ambient... I SAID I WANT MY LOOP TO BE 1 OR 2 DEGREES FARENHEIT WARMER THAN AMBIENT, WHICH FROM THIS ARTICLE, SAYS SHOULD BE OVER DOING IT UNLESS IM "VERY EXTREME". someone has to have a link that can clear this up for me..

i read something that said DT = final temp - starting temp

physics link, anything that has a clear answer and has a formula

H100 sucks,, it's just a temporary solution til i build my loop

 

[doyousmoke]

You do realize that if you dont want your water sub ambient, then you are talking about gaining 2-5c over a non chilled good loop right? Because thats all the water is over ambient in a good loop.

this just super confuses me

 

[evangs]

all you need is a good custom loop with plenty of rad. your solutions is just awful for what you want to accomplish. I find it ironic that you come here for advice and then disregard all the valuable information you are given. You come off as an arrogant jerk.

 

[Supertrucker]

A mid range custom water loop has water that is around 10 degrees c over ambient. A single swiftech 120.1 rad with 1 gentle typhoon ap-15 fan will hold water at 10 degrees c above ambient while having 125 watts of heat pumped into it. That ten degrees is the delta between water and air, which is almost always the temp being discussed if you hear someone talking about deltaT, in regards to water cooling. Double the rad and fan, reduce that number in half, so a 120.2 with two ap-15s will hold about a 5c delta over ambient. A 120.4 will be roughly 2.5c deltaT. a 120.8 will be roughly 1.25 and so on and so on. This makes it pretty easy to figure out about where diminishing returns make it impractical to add more radiator.

Modern intel processors when overclocked run some 40 degrees c over the temp of the water, and that is with a good block and a good pump. This is because of a high specific heat. Simply put, the amount of heat they throw out in relation to the size of the core. My 6950/70s put out about double the heat of my sandybridge, but video cards have a lower specific heat, due to a larger core that is easier to get the heat out of, meaning they are much easier to cool. So even though my video cards pump out double the heat of my processor, running in the same loop as my processor they load at about 38c while my cpu gets up to about 60c.

So, with a good loop, under full load, your water wont be but about 5c over the temp of the air going into the rad, which, with proper airflow, is air from your room, i.e. ambient temp.

You simply cannot get a processor anywhere near ambient temp without running water cold enough to require insulation due to condensation.

 

[doyousmoke]

all you need is a good custom loop with plenty of rad. your solutions is just awful for what you want to accomplish. I find it ironic that you come here for advice and then disregard all the valuable information you are given. You come off as an arrogant jerk.

i get all the goodies behind the advice when i question it. look bud, im Memesana's cousin. arrogance runs in the blood. dont be mad. i want to know why stuff wont work as well as why stuff will work. if something seems logical to me or illogical, im gonna throw it out there... and i havent even built my loop, let alone started investing in the other stuff. there's no disregard here. it's all in black and white, so i can look back

A mid range custom water loop has water that is around 10 degrees c over ambient. A single swiftech 120.1 rad with 1 gentle typhoon ap-15 fan will hold water at 10 degrees c above ambient while having 125 watts of heat pumped into it. That ten degrees is the delta between water and air, which is almost always the temp being discussed if you hear someone talking about deltaT, in regards to water cooling. Double the rad and fan, reduce that number in half, so a 120.2 with two ap-15s will hold about a 5c delta over ambient. A 120.4 will be roughly 2.5c deltaT. a 120.8 will be roughly 1.25 and so on and so on. This makes it pretty easy to figure out about where diminishing returns make it impractical to add more radiator.

Modern intel processors when overclocked run some 40 degrees c over the temp of the water, and that is with a good block and a good pump. This is because of a high specific heat. Simply put, the amount of heat they throw out in relation to the size of the core. My 6950/70s put out about double the heat of my sandybridge, but video cards have a lower specific heat, due to a larger core that is easier to get the heat out of, meaning they are much easier to cool. So even though my video cards pump out double the heat of my processor, running in the same loop as my processor they load at about 38c while my cpu gets up to about 60c.

So, with a good loop, under full load, your water wont be but about 5c over the temp of the air going into the rad, which, with proper airflow, is air from your room, i.e. ambient temp.

You simply cannot get a processor anywhere near ambient temp without running water cold enough to require insulation due to condensation.

^^^this is really good stuff

 

[doyousmoke]

so i think i got it! i did a tiny bit of math and it seems to add up give or take

*nothing overclocked and assuming water sitting in a room would be the same temp as the room(if that's off by a signifigant amout, let me know)*

my loop starts at 72' F which is 22' C... that keeps my processor around 56' C at max load (about a 34' C difference). when my loop heats up, my best guess is it gets around 85' F which is 29' C... that keeps my processor around 65' C at max load (about 36' C difference)

again, this is all really rough, but it seems to be adding up

so nothing overclocked now and i dont have my gpu's in my loop (obviously since i have an h100 right now)

when i do have everything overclocked and revved up, it's going to be putting around 1300-1500 watts into my loop... again, i'd love a formula, but thinking about it the best i can, i'd need like 40-80 fans on a MASSIVE radiator to keep the water 1-2' C above ambient

10' C delta when ambient is 70' F gives me water at around 31' C... which should mean around 71' C at full load

1' C delta when ambient is 70' F gives me water at around 22' C... which should mean around 62' C at full load

so i guess now my question is, do you really think i can get the water temps i want using radiators and fans with 1300-1500 watts being pumped into my loop??? seems like a little much looking at the 125watt example

i've just honestly thought to this point that something special would be required to keep the water in my loop from getting hot

 

[Supertrucker]

If i were trying to cool that much, i would be looking at either a pair of phobya 120.9s or a small pickup radiator with a window box fan modded to it. I would also be looking for a way to route airflow so that heat got dumped outside, because that much power being dumped into the loop, its going to feel not much different than one of those little space heaters you can buy.

Also, 1 degree of water temp is almost exactly 1 degree of core temp. So dropping your water from 10c deltaT to 5c, is only going to drop your core temps about 5 degrees, which is only needed if you want that very last mhz of overclock, and requires constant tuning due to the variation in ambient temp on any given day.

For reference, my loop, which is about half the power of your proposed loop, is cooled by 120.4 and 140.2 of rad with 4 800rpm 120s and 2 1000rpm 140s. Its quiet, quiet enough that i can hear the psu fan spin up when i pull hard enough for it to hit 1400rpm. So a pair of phobyas if you want to keep it looking clean, or that truck rad with a box fan with duct tape shroud if you just want effective, would be a great place to start.

 

[doyousmoke]

^^^^nice

 

[doyousmoke]

im talking about systems with a very large amount of heat output 1200+watts(not a measurement of heat), even though this applies to smaller systems too

ok, so....

* a good loop has temp varience of 1-3' C throughout the whole loop AND at its warmest is between 5-10' C above ambient. a great loop at its warmest is between 2-5' C above ambient. we know our components run WAY hotter than 10' C above ambient.... so let's say i have 120.8 and 140.4 blowing a ton of warm air into the room. unless you're really lucky and it's a dry 65' F year around where youre at, it's not always the best idea to open a window(thinking in terms of summer now).

seems like no matter what, after the heat is removed from the loop, the heat is dealt with using an AC unit to cool the house.

central air uses WHO-KNOWS-how-much enery depending on the size of the house or apt. so rather than trying to keep the air in the room cool by cooling the whole house, why not just do something like this

window ac unit leads into a box vai large hosing, and out the other end of the box(of course the hosing is not connected inside the box)... the hosing eventually leads back to the intake of the ac unit(as long as that air is still cooler than the air outside) or just back outside. i can have my loop run into the box, have a fanless radiator in the box, and have my loop run back out of the box. this does this same thing for pretty cheap and keeps heat, mostly, from being introduced to your room. the ac unit can be as big or small as you need

i dont mean to walk in circles here,,,,,, but why does this not only seem practical, but nessecary

please dont say "hook the ac to your case"... unless im wrong here too. A: watercooling is way more efficient at cooling your components..........B: if the ac is in your case, when you turn the ac off, and warm air moves back into your case over the cool parts, youre going to end up with condensation

just so you guys know... when i say box, i mean mini fridge

 

[Supertrucker]

The window ac unit would work fine for that. Nobody ever said dont use an ac unit. Its the freezer that was a problem. AC unit is designed for a constant load, and a good one will handle the heat you want to deal with, its the freezer that wouldnt have. If you were going to run a window ac unit, you wouldnt even really need to route it through the rads, simply have it in the same general area as the rads, and on a cool day, you wont need the ac on, on a warm day you will, and you will never have to deal with condensation because you arent forcing air cooler than the rooms average temp through the radiators.

 

[doyousmoke]

nice. i think im gonna go with the ac and box idea... air-tight fridge for a box and if i get condesation, it's going to be on the radiator, or the tubing very close to the radiator. i'll have 10 feet of tubing between the box and my system. and i'll monitor the temp of my loop just after the ac/radiator combo to make sure it never hits ambient. i really want this to look sexy too!! and a big plus is i spend less on radiators and fans... cause i wont need fans and i'll only need one radiator

it's gonna be fun trying to figure out what AC unit supports idle temps on low and full load temps on high... adjustable AC fan speed and adjustable AC temp should make it pretty easy once i know the perfect AC unit to buy

im sure i could also buy some sort of switch controlled by temperature to throw in the outlet the AC and mini fridge are plugged into. i could put the sensor after the AC/radiator combo... might not need to figure much out at all if i get one of these

this is an awesome thread.. if there's more info and better links, please post

just read the whole thread before you rip this idea.... we're talking lots of heat

 

[Supertrucker]

Remember also that pulling that much power for a pc and that much power for an ac unit, you are going to want them on separate breakers in the house, at least here in the states. 15 amp breakers are common, thats only 1650w of power, and a computer consuming 1300 even with a platinum psu will pull ~1430 from the wall outlet. And that one breaker is usually wired to several plugs.

 

[Conumdrum]

Yep, what was that forum, two years ago. Guy had the breaker popping, put a 50 amp in and almost burnt the house down. So be careful with your wires. Most 115V circuits hare rated at 20A and the breaker can be 15 A.

One bedroom, usually 2-3 are on one breaker. Not a problem, a TV, few clocks, Stereo etc. But not a power hungry PC and a wall AC.

Ohh, in my garage the prev owner put a meduim window AC in the grage. If I run it and try to open the garage, poof goes the breaker.

 

[doyousmoke]

^^^ those above are good stuff... no need to have the fridge plugged in actually. i'm about to be moving in a month, so i dont know what the layout of my new place will be, but im sure i can manage the power issue

 

[wagex]

he also isnt cooling the whole thing with it hes just running a bit of copper line through and still having a radiator before so its not gonna be dumping much heat in there really.

edit: i didnt even notice there were 5 other pages lol i missed out on alot of info in the other 4 whoops

 

[doyousmoke]

Cooling Output: 5000 BTU
Room Size: 100-300 sq. ft.
Features: 2-Way Air Directional Control, Removable Filter, Mechanical Rotary Control
Includes: Mounting Hardware
Number of Cooling Speeds: 3
Number of Fan Speeds: 3
Amps Required: 0. amps <<-----is somthing wrong here???????
Volts Required: 115.0 V
$149.09

Frigidaire 5000 BTU Mini Window Air Conditioner - White (paint it black, throw some led's on it, glitter, whatever floats your boat)

and i plan on having the radiator inside the mini fridge now. where before, when i didnt understand delta temp in relation to the rooms temp etc, i wanted the radiator before the fridge. now i would rather the ac do all the work