HTPC build, overkill for my needs?

[Sprucemoose]

I am looking into building an HTPC to replace my current WDTV Live (custom WDLXTV firmware). The WDTV is a good movie streamer, but it has slow navigation, and I'm a little fed up with creating moviesheets manually. I also have some annoying audio/video sync problems I can't get rid of. I want to keep my media files on my QNAP NAS.

I've been looking at different media players, but they all seem to come with a non-customizable interface, plugins and apps I don't want etc, other limitations etc. Now, I realise that building an HTPC is somewhat different than building the regular gaming PC when you're just mixing all the fastest components on the market. Fast components generate heat (bad) and empty the wallet (bad) without adding any performance.

So my needs are this:
-Fluent playback of full HD 1080p with DTS/AC3 sound
-Fluent and fast navigation
-Customizable navigation layout
-Ability to power on HTPC by remote control
-Internal remote (IR?) sensor
-Deathly quiet
-Boot directly to media player
-3D BluRay ISO (nice if possible, but not crucial)

What I don't need.
-Gaming, music, any other computer related tasks

Now, I haven't decided on an OS/software, but I'm a little tempted by running XBMC. XBMC Live or the soon to be released XBMCbuntu will probably be what I am looking for.

What I also haven't decided on, however, is whether to go with an Intel or an AMD CPU, or if I need a discrete GPU. I have been looking at both the AMD A-3500 and the Intel i3 2120T. The i3 has a TDP of 35W and the A-3500 65W. But then again, there is a question about driver support and which chip has the better graphics for movie playback.

So far, my best idea for a complete build will be:
ASUS F1A75I-Deluxe m-ITX motherboard
AMD A-3500 CPU
4GB of cheapest RAM
OCZ Agility 3 60GB SSD
Streacom FC8 fanless chassis
Streacom IR sensor (internal)

Is this overkill for my needs? Am I better off choosing a motherboard with intergrated CPU/GPU (ie. ASUS E45M1-I with the AMD E-450 CPU)? That would require at least a chassis fan to cool the heatsink, and I'm not too keen on adding any noise sources.

Does anybody have any other (and preferrably cheaper) solutions that would satisfy my needs? I'd be greatful for any tips.

 

[juane414]

Everything that I've read about the AMD APUs says that they are fine for 1080p and blu-ray playback, including 3D blu-ray. I'm not sure how much heat they generate. A low profile discrete gpu with a passive cooler would be pretty cool and quiet too, but it would take up a little more space. The system you have listed there should be enough to do what you want.

 

[mjw21a]

Personally I'd go with an AMD A6-3500. The extra cores definitely make things that little bit snappier if you're running Windows. Likewise, you're always better off having more power on hand than you need than getting somethign and finding you need more. Fit a decent tower cooler in there with a quiet fan and set the CPU fan control to a quiet profile in the BIOS and it'll be nice and quiet. The amount of the airflow through the cooler won't matter too much as you're never ever going to max out 3 cores on a HTPC. However it IS nice for the machine to be able to easily handle a few processes at once. More on that where I've spoken about OS's lower down.

Personally I've found that you can achieve a silent computer no worries while using more powerful components. Just stick with low RPM fans like the Scythe SlipStream 120mm 500rpm Fan. They're also reasonably inexpensive fans so you can't really go wrong. Don't worry about chip TDP, just use quiet, quality cooling. Stick with integrated on chip graphics, be it Intel or AMD, it doesn't matter. AMD has the edge in graphics performance though.

Likewise, why limit yourself with a smaller case when you can simply go with something that will handle a full ATX mainboard yet still have the same dimensions as a home theatre reciever? The Silverstone Grandia GD06 case is excellent in that regard: http://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=293&area=en

Likewise, stick with either Linux or Windows 7 for the OS as Windows XP really doesn't make use of additional cores and sucks at multitasking. I've used XBMC on Windows 7, Windows XP, Mac OSX Lion + Linux Mint and I can tell you that Windows XP will give you quite a poor experience, often having to wait for the media library to update before you can navigate. It just can't handle doing more than 2 tasks at a time even though my HTPC is quad core. With every other OS on the other hand things run great.

The power supply also is very important as it can be hard to find a silent power supply. I've found the Silverstone Strider series to be excellent in that regard, likewise you can look at any number of fanless units out there although many of those suffer coil whine. Personally I'm running a Silverstone Strider Essential 500W in my HTPC.

If you want to go with something much better and extremely efficient then take a look at the Kingwin Lazer Platinum. Will cut power costs and is extremely quiet, fanless to untill it reaches a certain temp: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817121080&Tpk=kingwin lazer platinum

As for a remote control, you really can't go past one of the Logitech Harmony remotes, brilliant all in one remotes.

But seriously, don't limit what you can do with the machine by using smaller cases etc. Just go standard. There's a larger selection of quiet components available to you then, and you can cool the system better while running faster hardware at the same time. Likewise, there's less of a price premium on regular sized components. You don't have to compromise then and you can have the best of both worlds

 

[azuza001]

This may help you a bit. I use a Phenom 9550 Quad Core at 2.3 Ghz, 3 gigs ram, and a Radeon 2400 Pro for my HTPC. It's an old gateway, it came with it's own Windows Media Center remote.

I can watch TV (has it's own TV card in it), record 1080P, watch 1080P while recording 1080P, watch a blu ray, whatever I want with no stuttering issues or anything like that.

Finally, the machine is off, I just grab the remote and hit the power button on it and the PC powers on from its Hibernate state. If a program I want to record comes on the PC wakes itself up, records the show, then go's back to hibernate mode. It's the nicest HTPC I've ever owned and it works great.

So what I'm saying is you don't need a lot of hardware to pull off what your looking to do. The most important point will be the software that you use, find a single program that will do everything you want and you should be happy.

 

[mjw21a]

This may help you a bit. I use a Phenom 9550 Quad Core at 2.3 Ghz, 3 gigs ram, and a Radeon 2400 Pro for my HTPC. It's an old gateway, it came with it's own Windows Media Center remote.

I can watch TV (has it's own TV card in it), record 1080P, watch 1080P while recording 1080P, watch a blu ray, whatever I want with no stuttering issues or anything like that.

Finally, the machine is off, I just grab the remote and hit the power button on it and the PC powers on from its Hibernate state. If a program I want to record comes on the PC wakes itself up, records the show, then go's back to hibernate mode. It's the nicest HTPC I've ever owned and it works great.

So what I'm saying is you don't need a lot of hardware to pull off what your looking to do. The most important point will be the software that you use, find a single program that will do everything you want and you should be happy.

Spot on, more cores are nice though. The speed of those cores don't much matter though.

XBMC + Plugins does all I need and its easy to set up/configure compared to other products out there. It's of no use for recording movies etc however I don't need that feature.

 

[juane414]

A quad core or tri core APU might not be a bad idea, but you certainly don't need to get an expensive graphics card.

 

[Cigarsmoker]

IMO an AMD APU or Sandy Bridge CPU with HD3000 is more than sufficient for HTPC. No need for a GPU. No GPU means one less component, allow you to use a smaller PSU, use less fans because the system produces less heat and therefore have a quiet computer overall.

 

[mjw21a]

IMO an AMD APU or Sandy Bridge CPU with HD3000 is more than sufficient for HTPC. No need for a GPU. No GPU means one less component, allow you to use a smaller PSU, use less fans because the system produces less heat and therefore have a quiet computer overall.

Even integrated graphics with an Athlon II would be enough, probably cheaper to buy although power useage would be better with an APU. The Kingwin power supply I linked will also have a big impact on overall power useage.

IMO an AMD APU or Sandy Bridge CPU with HD3000 is more than sufficient for HTPC. No need for a GPU. No GPU means one less component, allow you to use a smaller PSU, use less fans because the system produces less heat and therefore have a quiet computer overall.

I've generally found 1x 120mm 500RPM intake, 1x 120mm 500RPM exhaust and 1x 120mm 500-1000RPM PWM CPU fan on the heatsink is sufficient to keep a HTPC nice and cool and is inaudible. You just don't need more fans than this. It's not a gaming rig after all. The hard drives make more noise than anything else, so get rubber grommits to try and isolate HDD seek/access noise IF you do end up adding internal storage.

 

[Cigarsmoker]

I agree MJ. I'm partial to 800 rpm Scythe FDB fans. Inaudible to my ears. I generally load up my HTPCs with a lot of HDDs so a fan blowing over the HDDs is critical.

 

[mjw21a]

I agree MJ. I'm partial to 800 rpm Scythe FDB fans. Inaudible to my ears. I generally load up my HTPCs with a lot of HDDs so a fan blowing over the HDDs is critical.

Yup, between these two fans from Scythe I don't need anything else for HTPC cooling:

500RPM - http://www.umart.com.au/pro/products_listnew.phtml?id=10&id2=227&bid=2&sid=73406
1200RPM - http://www.umart.com.au/pro/products_listnew.phtml?id=10&id2=227&bid=2&sid=73401

It's ok to have more intake fans than exits, or even no exit fan. Positive pressure in a case helps avoid dust being sucked into the case.

I use the 1900RPM Scythe fans in my main/signature rig.

 

[Sprucemoose]

Thanks for your replies, allthough I'm still a little confused. It seems to me that some of you argue towards a bigger solution with 120mm fans, possibility of discrete GPU or full-size PSUs. Now, one of my main concerns in this whole project is both the opinion of the wife , the space we have available where I'm going to put the HTPC and noise.

The possibility of a low-powered m-ITX HTPC is really appealing to me, and escpecially the possibility of a fanless setup. I really want this to be as compact as possible. I also must point out that the box I'm going to build will strictly be used for managing/streaming movies over the home network...nothing else. There is no need for TV tuners, complex computing task or anything else for that matter.

In my first post, I forgot to mention what PSU I had in mind on this idea of mine. I was thinking about going for one of those PicoPSUs in the range of 120-150W with an external powerbrick. Would that be such a bad idea with the above setup?

 

[mjw21a]

I'd still stick with a standard mATX mainboard plus an AMD APU. Go with a platinum rated power supply to get your power useage right down. The power supplies available for ITX systems meet 80+ Bronze requirements at best. You can go with less efficient components and still get similar power use from the wall provided you use a top quality power supply. The Kingwin Lazer Platinum is perfect for your needs and most likely would run fanless the entire time. It's fan only spins up once it hits 60C.

I believe XBMC on Windows 7 would fill your needs perfectly. It's purely for view material, it has no recording functionality.

If size it what you're after try taking a look at the Silverstone ML03 - http://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=283&area=en

This will take a mATX mainboard, and standard ATX power supply no worries.Get a Scythe Big Shuriken CPU Cooler as it's really low profile and will fit the case no worries. You don't actually need any additional fans, although if you place one blowing towards the CPU cooler you'll probably find the CPU cooler fan will never ramp up and it'll be quieter than just running the CPU cooler on its own.

There is no real need to go with extremely low powered ITX designs when your requirements always have the possibility of changing down the track. Expansion is a definite plus. If you never need it then you haven't lost out as the cost will be about the same. If you find you do need to add capability down the track you'll find that taking this route is a definite blessing. Likewise its great to have that extra performance on hand should your requirements change, things will also appear snappier in general use. Better than having to spend the money all over again if you want to do more with the system.

Typically with a media centre you start off just wanting to do one thing, however as you get to know the system you find there are other things that you would like to do/try. Go with the upgradeable option.

I know the low powered ITX systems hold a lot of appeal, and I seriously considered going down that path myself. In the end I realized That its much better using standard quiet components. You get the advantage of lower pricing over all and expandability.

I personally wouldn't bother with a discrete GPU. Integrated with AMD is more than enough. The APU I mentioned in my first post has more than enough for any HTPC, should you require more though you will have space to add a discrete GPU if you want it.

Here's what I seriously recommend you look at:

CPU & DVD burner - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103951
CPU Cooler - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835185174R
RAM - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820139046
Mainboard - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157277
Case - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811163174
SSD - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233223
Power Supply - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817121080

This will be a good fast computer, room for 2x hard drives if you ever do need it, a few expansion slots. Parts are easily replaced down the track as they're standard. Power useage will be nice and low due to the use of an APU and extremely efficient 80+ Platinum rated power supply. Just so you understand what I mean, a lower end 80+ or 80+ Bronze power supply will draw more power from the wall than the one listed. Platinum is the highest efficiency rating available.

Ratings from most efficient to least efficient are as follows:

80+ Platinum
80+ Gold
80+ Silver
80+ Bronze
80+

Then you've got a whole range of other power supplies on the market which can't even hit 80b& ac/dc conversion efficiency. 80+ Platinum power supplies are rated at over 90% efficiency and produce less heat, thereby requiring less cooling. The one I've listed actually tuns fanless most of the time. Likewise a quality power supply output's good clean power extending the life of the equipment its powering. Cheaper power supplies can have large variations in the power being supplied which damage your equipment over time. Typically a smaller power supply has to sacrifice something for the size.

I'd not be surprised to see the above configuration meet a very similar power draw from the wall to a, E-350 or atom based solution, primarily due to the power supply. The above configuration will also be inaudible. Yes, the power supply is rated at over 500 watt's, however with this configuration you'll never even hit a quarter of that and the fan in the unit will never actually spin up. In the end, you've only got 1x fan in this configuration.

I hope I've been of some use explaining what I mean.

 

[notarat]

I am looking into building an HTPC to replace my current WDTV Live (custom WDLXTV firmware). The WDTV is a good movie streamer, but it has slow navigation, and I'm a little fed up with creating moviesheets manually. I also have some annoying audio/video sync problems I can't get rid of. I want to keep my media files on my QNAP NAS.

I've been looking at different media players, but they all seem to come with a non-customizable interface, plugins and apps I don't want etc, other limitations etc. Now, I realise that building an HTPC is somewhat different than building the regular gaming PC when you're just mixing all the fastest components on the market. Fast components generate heat (bad) and empty the wallet (bad) without adding any performance.

So my needs are this:
-Fluent playback of full HD 1080p with DTS/AC3 sound
-Fluent and fast navigation
-Customizable navigation layout
-Ability to power on HTPC by remote control
-Internal remote (IR?) sensor
-Deathly quiet
-Boot directly to media player
-3D BluRay ISO (nice if possible, but not crucial)

What I don't need.
-Gaming, music, any other computer related tasks

Now, I haven't decided on an OS/software, but I'm a little tempted by running XBMC. XBMC Live or the soon to be released XBMCbuntu will probably be what I am looking for.

What I also haven't decided on, however, is whether to go with an Intel or an AMD CPU, or if I need a discrete GPU. I have been looking at both the AMD A-3500 and the Intel i3 2120T. The i3 has a TDP of 35W and the A-3500 65W. But then again, there is a question about driver support and which chip has the better graphics for movie playback.

So far, my best idea for a complete build will be:
ASUS F1A75I-Deluxe m-ITX motherboard
AMD A-3500 CPU
4GB of cheapest RAM
OCZ Agility 3 60GB SSD
Streacom FC8 fanless chassis
Streacom IR sensor (internal)

Is this overkill for my needs? Am I better off choosing a motherboard with intergrated CPU/GPU (ie. ASUS E45M1-I with the AMD E-450 CPU)? That would require at least a chassis fan to cool the heatsink, and I'm not too keen on adding any noise sources.

Does anybody have any other (and preferrably cheaper) solutions that would satisfy my needs? I'd be greatful for any tips.

I have several HTPCs (or systems that could qualify as HTPC) but I'm by no means an expert. That said...

Between the two CPUs you listed, the AMD 3500 would be the better choice. The Intel 2120's graphics left a lot to be desired in my case and I had to sell that mobo/cpu and buy a new platform. I then went with the Asus F1A75-I Deluxe and AMD A4-3400 and I'm very happy with it. As far as sound is concerned, an A4-3400 paired with a Scythe Kozuti that's been modded to use a 100x100x10 fan, instead of the OEM 80mm fan, is close enough to silent that you'll not hear it if you're sitting 4ft away. I tried that cooling combo in Truckputer but the SSD blocks part of the heatsink, preventing me from installing the 100mm scythe

If this is HTPC is for "home" use, the Streacom FC8 is a nice case. A little larger than I wanted for my install, but it's stilla very nice case.

Get yourself 8GB of RAM if you go with the AMD platform. You can then dedicate 2GB to the integrated video card and still have 6GB for the system. I picked up 8GB for $50 on the egg and they run specials on them weekly.

I haven't tried setting mine up to power up with a remote control, but that may be a nice feature to add. It's currently set to power up 5 seconds after I turn the ignition (mine is in my truck)

 

[Sprucemoose]

Again, thanks for the input.

@mjw21a: I appreciate what you are saying about building bigger for the possibility of future upgrades and changes. I have, however, only very specific tasks for this box, as it will be a movie streamer only. For everything else computer related, I prefer to lean on my main computer. You do have some good points, and I will seriously consider them before making a decision.

@notarat: You're not the only one I've heard who prefers the AMD A-series over the i3 because of graphics. I will go with your advice on this. AMD it will be.

 

[Howy]

hi sprucemoose
I know the wifes bla bla. In my case it always about kables. your setup is fine.. If you dont want any noise youu cann go for the I3 -2120T and a fanless small factor vfa card supporting dxva. The i3 does not require active cooling if you put a good heatsink on top of it. On http://www.besthtpc.net i have acouple of working working htpc configurations. That are focussed on powerconsumption and quietness. in a nice case. (all what the woman wants).

 

[mjw21a]

True... It's good for people to have a difference view on things. It'd be a boring old world otherwise.

 

[Xenocide]

I use a 4 year old Acer Aspire Revo with the original Intel Atom processor and a Ion chipset, I think I paid 250 for it that long ago. Linux XBMC with 512mb of ram. Menus are quick, plays 1080 perfectly via HDMI.

This all seems like a waste of money to me.

 

[mjw21a]

^^^ Agreed, if you run Linux instead of Windows then even the ultra low power stuff from Intel and AMD absolutely flies.

 

[juane414]

I use a 4 year old Acer Aspire Revo with the original Intel Atom processor and a Ion chipset, I think I paid 250 for it that long ago. Linux XBMC with 512mb of ram. Menus are quick, plays 1080 perfectly via HDMI.

This all seems like a waste of money to me.

Does xbmc for linux support blu-ray playback yet?

 

[mjw21a]

Does xbmc for linux support blu-ray playback yet?

Not sure, I just loaded the newest XBMC Buntu install on my media centre last night. It's lightning fast, even faster than running XBMC on my old Mac Pro. Don't even compare it with XBMC on Windows.

Now if only I can manage to get audio working. Everything else is sweet.

They charge more for BlueRay rentals here in Australia, so I just stick with regular DVD's. I can't tell the difference most of the time anyway.