In desperate need of 4 GB GPU

[ninjacore]

"wise geek ones"???

Judging by the pics/info from this review (http://www.motormice.com/reviews/SZ77R5/settingup.htm), I don't think the Strix or MSI would fit without modification. The reference 680 in that review is ~4.4" and the MSI and Asus 970s are 5.5".

Length-wise, it looks like you're working with about 10-10.5". The Gigabyte G1 is ~12.25", so I think that one is out.

I think that your best bet, given your case, is going to be one of the EVGA cards. They come in at <10" in length and <4.5" in height, fitting perfectly in your case. FTW would be my pick, but several forum members have had luck with the other models in the lineup as well (ATMinside has the ACX 2.0 SC, for example, and recommends it)..

I honestly don't think the MSI or Asus are going to fit. They both seem too tall. Remember, that even if you can barely squeeze the card in, you have also be able to plug in the power connectors which come out the top.

I would switch gears and focus on the EVGA cards.

 

[Ivy]

Of course, hard to squeeze but remember that the card doesnt need to be exactly vertical for the first few mm, and it doesnt need be be vertical for the bracket to put it in, i guess im gonna try because i do need every bit of cooling and the GTX 970 is already to much heat for my linkings. Although the 7870 was not lesser heat...and somehow it worked for me.

I was really hoping for a good and affordable 960 GTX with 4 GB but Nvidia apparently was to cheap and is trying to beat some low end gamers at the AMD section using this card, so that option is simply out and the GTX 970 is with bigger cooling issues (comparable to 7870), so it needs some good sink.

Btw: EVGA doesnt offer zero fan mode at below 60 C... somehow it could be useful because in Idle it may work to stay below 60. No matter what i do... EVGA is more noisy under any conditions but more or less same cooling.

 

[ninjacore]

970 runs extremely cool. You're not going to find a card better than it in that department (especially in this performance bracket).

I also don't think there's a ton of difference heat-wise between the MSI, Asus, and EVGA cards.

I don't understand what you're saying about the card being vertical or whatever when you install it. Judging by that review, I wouldn't think the Asus or MSI would fit, but it's your case, so you know best.

 

[Ivy]

EVGA would be around 20 USD cheaper, noise is higher, in that term MSI clearly supreme. Now we only talk about if it can fit and i guess i may be able to do the trick...

The cooling difference between the best and worst performer is 23 C, Inno3D I Chill vs. stock cooler. The stock cooler is limiting at 81 C. This is a huge difference when i have to expect the temp to be at least 10 Chigher, sometimes up to 20C (worst case, above 30 C ambient).

 

[ninjacore]

We're not talking about either of those lol

Of course the "reference" version is warmer than the best cooler version.

Choice is yours.

 

[Ivy]

Very difficult one...

Category 1: No fit such as Gigabyte G1, Inno3D iChill, Asus Strix
Category 2: May fit with squeezing. MSI Gaming
Category 3: Easy to make it fit but worse cooling, either noise or temperature. EVGA, Palit. Palit run silent but high temperature.

 

[ninjacore]

(Just pulling numbers from various reviews - averaged if differences seen):

Card|Temp(c)|Noise(dB)
Strix|71|37
MSI Gaming|63|39
ACX2 SC|73|39
FTW|66|43

Those are the cards which could fit in your case. Going off these numbers, the MSI card definitely looks the best, but I don't think it's worth the risk over either of the EVGAs, both of which you know will fit.

I would make sure you can do free returns if you go with the MSI. Good luck!

 

[Ivy]

The FTW is the only one below 70 C which is my requirement, it may surely fit but as a trade off clearly higher noise. Fact is, MSI may suit best if it fits, second in line would be the rather noisy FTW.

I dont care looks... it could look like a dirty slime but if it runs better i would buy it...
Same for HIFI, in term the sound makes me cry... i dont care look. I only care the look of my TV screen and game graphics.
I buy the MSI because it truly performs good at temperature and noise...and it got a powerful power phase design, nothing else.

For a PC the stuff that counts is in my sig. Quality at first and generally not oversized with high efficiency. I like SFF, guess the only challenge i enjoy in term of lifestyle. Next SFF will surely become supreme, but current one i have to mod in many spots. Will have more experience in future... useful for better SFF.

 

[ninjacore]

Why 70? Just an arbitrary number? These cards are fine well beyond that.

You seem pretty set on the MSI, so I'd go for it, that way you're not second-guessing yourself later

Let us know how it works out.

 

[Ivy]

Under extreme conditions i do expect the card to run up to 20 C above test value and i need it almost failproof and no less. My record ambient temp was 34 C (a few days and not every year but still possible)...and my SFF will always add some more heat, technical limitation. But i try to overcome such limitations in future by added fans and micro WC for CPU.

So 70+20 = 90 C, this is the limit guess, it wont stay stable much above. My 7870 DCII (although V.1 not V.2) was about same values on test sites, guess around 65 C. But it is easely able to reach 85 C under full load... below 30 C ambient, and 5 C headroom for 30 C+ ambient. I had to mod case else it will even hit the 100 C point and badaboom... because just to less airflow moved and heat pulled into a closed case is high. So i was opening the GPU entry which was dropping temperature by 20 C already... but still higher than a open case, maybe 10 C, but even more when ambient is 30 C or so.

There is 2 ways for super hot GPUs: 1. Huge tower with countless vents, or 2. Open bench table (maybe use a huge external ambient vent headed toward bench when 30 C ambient).
The other way is SFF with GPUs of average heat and it needs high cooling experience, a partially open case for self sustainable GPU support and great coolers, else a good machine is just a dream. I am working on good SFF solutions, a bench table with double GPU will be done too sometimes in future, just for experience matters. No interest into boring and standartized tower stuff... thats for those who dont want to understand more and just failproof easy stuff, i guess.

 

[ATMINSIDE]

Better solution:
Get a case with proper airflow and space for a GPU, then stop having to worry so much.

 

[ninjacore]

+1 ITX builds are awesome, but Shuttle boxes are just not the way to go.

Also keep in mind, though, that in those reviews, those were the max temperature values, but the fans weren't at 100%. Had the temps gone up (as they will in your case - pun not intended ), the fan speeds would have gone up with them. If a 7870 survived your environment, so will any of the 970s. Power consumption on both is within 20w.

Where do you live, by the way? Yoda's hut on Dagobah?


EDIT:

Also, just looked at the title of this thread. The 970 is no longer a 4GB card :

http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php/754863-False-Specs-on-GTX-970

 

[EarthDog]

Ambient temps and temps of your hardware are really 1:1. So if that test was done at 20c. And your worst is 34c. Then at worst that same system would be 14c warmer.

970 is still 4gb. It just happens that the last 500mb are a lot slower, lol. So if you use more than 3.5gb, then you could see some slow downs. That said, the results we see in testing, particularly at 4k where 3.5gb can be used, is what it is.

 

[Ivy]

I guess because the cheap Nvidia company is either using to less bus or a half sustainable software in order to pass those lack of bus tricks...
But in real world terms i dont expect my games to use more than 3.5 GB so i guess i may be fine. Still a weird thing... need infos.

Where do you live, by the way? Yoda's hut on Dagobah?

Almost,... i live on the top of a house right below the roof, naked and with a lot of computers and teapots... all im gonna tell.

 

[EarthDog]

Or not. Read his link to see why it was done that way. Preferably the Anand article.

 

[Ivy]

Im gonna read the horror story as soon as i had my tea... else i may cry for water.

 

[Ivy]

Well, some feedback regarding my 970 gotten, may be useful for some and simply because could be interesting how it works on my mini PC (the possibly smallest gaming capable SFF).

MSI Gaming 970

The Pros:
Impressive ALU cooler, better than most of the competitor cards and at size that still is able to fit inside most PCs, the Gigabyte G1 or Inno3D I Chill is more huge and just marginally better cooling. On top of that the noise is extremely low, even at max speed of the fan. When in Idle the card is running with zero fan speed even inside the Shuttle, so absolutely no noise when browsing or desktop actions outside game, even when watching movies the card is with zero noise. The cooler is only running when inside demanding games, and at some games that are very low load the fan wont spin at all (most old school games from GOG for example). Even EVE-Online is running without active fans when at the station and at 60 FPS, its totaly crazy how well and noise free the card is able to handle absolutely any task.

A good bonus from the zero fan speed mode is that the fans will live much longer, because when a PC is maybe half of the time in idle mode, the fan will be used just half of the lifetime and it may double the possible lifetime. Lifetime of fans can indeed be a issue, because one of the fans of my 7870 stopped spinning and still less than 3 years of age. I didnt even notice it, i just always had a high temperature and it became a real issue. But i didnt notice it until i was removing the card... crazy. So i really value it when a fan can go to zero in Idle, can truly expand lifetime and fan security.

The clock is not on the weak side too: The core can be used at 1500+ boost clocks without issue, when i tested it, it was able to keep it up constantly above 1400 and hitting 1500 in many occasions and it seemed perfectly stable. But somehow i had a reset by using AB, have to figure out issue but the core can run really high clocks thats certain. I would say a truly impressive card, the best card i ever had in many terms.

The Cons:
MSI didnt use a backplate on this version, so the cooling may be reduced at some PCB spots and memory could act less stable. I think it could be that my memory is running to hot that i am unable to go past the 7500 MHz line without artifacts but could be just a bad chip that is screwing up. Still a good clock, way better than stock.

MSI was releasing another version with full copper cooler that is top of the line and a soon to be released version is with backplate included. Still lacking the ultimate in spec: A version with copper AND backplate. So i guess MSI is simply throwing around with many different versions and they can afford it because no true competition. Apart from MSI no one seems to be using a copper cooler and because even the standart cooler is one of the best ever seen they can afford it not to use backplate even but still stay competitive because of lower core temps.

Finally the sad tear is, that there could be even better MSI cards but hard to get them and if someone want a copper version with backplate i guess they need to mod it themself... But it truly would be unbeatable at cooling to cm3 ratio (card can be fit inside a Shuttle) and taking noise into account (with zero noise mode too... not much cards got it).

There could be older versions of this card with faulty coolers but my card and the cooler is running great so far, so it seems the issue has been fixed.

Possible 3.5 GB issue but so far it looks like it wont truly be a matter on almost any terms. Still under investigation.

 

[EarthDog]

Thanks for sharing ivy...

On a side note, a backplate does nothing to cool anything unless there is thermal tape between it and whatever it's cooling. Which typically there are memory ICs underneath. It's main purpose in that case is for rigidity and aesthetics.

 

[Ivy]

Hmm, i was seeing many pictures of MSI cards with backplate that had thermal tape on it, of course it need contact with something else. But i am not sure what else could be cooled down better, still somehow a bonus i guess. Question is if my memory is just bad chip or maybe cooling to low? Sometimes there are chips on the backside too but 970 probably not.

Looking at this picture there seems to be some chips at the backside, memory? If so the cooling may be a issue, i dunno, guess i have to run firestrike and checking memory temps.

 

[EarthDog]

The only way to confirm if it's the memory temps.or not is to cool them off.