Intel X6 i5-9600KF based system (5.00Ghz project)

[storm-chaser]

And don't worry about the present cable management, I will get everything routed correctly and tuck everything away as much as possible.

 

[storm-chaser]

Updates on cable management... Windows 10 installed and doing some overclocking right now... starting off with baby steps as this is the first time I've OCd on the Z390 platform.







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The lower hard drive cage can be removed, and I am eventually going to do that when I upgrade the case fans.

I personally really like the case, it's quiet, sleek, low profile, just big enough for all the required hardware and a total sleeper. Plus, with the sides on, there is a high probability it's much more quiet than your PC ever will be.

New cases IMO, look like alien creations, they've deviated too far from normal form. In both design, weight and size. Besides, I had specific requirements for this build and I am VERY glad I went with a sound dampening design by Cooler Master.

As I calculated, The MSI Core Frozr is about 2mm below the case height limit. Any higher and the side wouldn't latch shut.

Therefore, most 140mm coolers would not work due to height limitations imposed by my case. So the cooler was also a good call, not only does it look good, but it appears to perform very well, very quiet so far.

I used Arctic Silver 5 thermal paste.

First Overclock







I use open shell to bring back the old windows start menu... I also run with the quick launch toolbar activated as well, could never do without it.





5.0GHz NO PROBLEM



It's like an adrenaline rush every time you raise the mulitiplier.... This thing is FAST!

Here are my results from userbenchmark.com, as you can see we are in the top 99% percentile across the board.

 

[EarthDog]

Nice!

So...what are load temps (in celsius, lol) when running stress tests at 5.1 ghz 1.33V? Any avx offset? Massive voltage jump from 5-5.1 ghz, yikes!

 

[trents]

I would do some additional stress testing with other products besides CPU-z. It's stress testing tool is not particularly robust. I also see where you've done some benching with AIDA 64. Can you pass at least an hour of OCCT or Realbench? And what about temps? Don't see any screenies of temp monitoring.

 

[storm-chaser]

I would do some additional stress testing with other products besides CPU-z. It's stress testing tool is not particularly robust. I also see where you've done some benching with AIDA 64. Can you pass at least an hour of OCCT or Realbench? And what about temps? Don't see any screenies of temp monitoring.

I want to be clear that none of these high clocks have been proven yet, from a reliability standpoint. I simply wanted to find the processors upper limit or max clock. That being said, I found the max clock @ 5.3GHz



And yes, my requirement for stability is a 30 minute torture test. I will try different tests though so we have all our bases covered.

@EarthDog

By no means is the voltage dialed in, I was just getting baseline results here. I will be creating an all out overclock profile and then one for daily driver mode. I think that will be around 4.8GHz...

In adjusting the turbo settings I've got two cores that spool up to 5.3GHz and the rest remain at 4.8GHz

So this appears to be stable @ 70 - 80 * C

 

[storm-chaser]

In setting a more aggressive timing curve on the CPU fan I helped eliminate those pesky spikes in temperature and at this point I am 100% satisfied the rig is stable @ 5.0GHz

BF4 = 1 hour on these settings... flawless
AIDA64 Torture Test = 26 minutes




(and temps are holding at 70-75*C)

 

[trents]

In my experience the AIDA64 stress test needs to be run for several hours to demonstrate true stability. It takes longer for that one than some of the other tools we have traditionally used. But really, the only thing that matters is is it is stable when you use it how you use it. I would only add that rigs that are only marginally stable tend to become more unstable over time.

 

[EarthDog]

Looking good so far!

Run default stress configuration (leave stress memory disabled) and see what happens. You can also leave fpu as the only item checked and see how it responds (it will get warmer...). I typically leave the ram unchecked/alone unless I'm actually testing the ram.

As far as the 4.8/5ghz conundrum, maybe consider an avx offset as well. Run 5ghz but 4.8 for avx (what really heats up the cpu).

I'm interested to see what closing the side of the case does to these temps.

Oh, one more thing, 1.38V for 5 ghz? That seems like a lot for the clocks and lighter stre ss test.

 

[storm-chaser]

@EarthDog
I'm parsing through your last post with my replies which will be posted below in bold... Your original questions will be italicized and green for contrast. It's not perfect but you get the idea....


Looking good so far!
Thank you, the Z390 experience has been great... at least as much fun as LGA 775, and I'm only getting started! It's nice to be on the cutting edge of technology again!







Run default stress configuration (leave stress memory disabled) and see what happens. You can also leave fpu as the only item checked and see how it responds (it will get warmer...). I typically leave the ram unchecked/alone unless I'm actually testing the ram.

I really need to get a temp gun (laser), so I can pin point exact temps on my ram / heatsink or chipset during a given torture test The 5.25" card reader / fan controller has two temperature leads, so perhaps I can stick one to the RAM and another on the base of the CPU. YTBD. I have noticed that the motherboard is incredible in terms of thermal management. You can check the plotted temps in my torture test above, mainboard temps never crested the 100*F (sorry I'm mixing F with C and vice versa)






As far as the 4.8/5ghz conundrum, maybe consider an avx offset as well. Run 5ghz but 4.8 for avx (what really heats up the cpu).

Please tell me about AVX... What exactly is this, an instruction set? That really makes the processors blood boil?
In reference to the 4.8GHz mark, this is not just an arbitrary number. I actually faced this same conundrum with my hyper 212 cooled FX X4 chip in a sealed up case - a situation in which the variables were not much different then they are right now.... Point being, anything above 4.850Ghz and you start losing the battle with thermal margins with air cooling. So I need to err on the side of caution here, be conservative and try to find that sweet spot on my new intel chip just like I did with the FX. And again, when the new fans arrive I will really work on making that happen. For now it's just experimentation.





I'm interested to see what closing the side of the case does to these temps.

Oh you and I both know what's going to happen lol. As soon as I close up the case will turn into a sauna almost instantaneously. But making this work as it stands MUST be done to carry through with my original vision for this build. We must stabilize and find reliability with the side covers on.
I've spent the last few minutes tweaking my fan controller for that very scenario. Within a 35*C spread the fan will ramp from 55% to 100%, so it's very aggressive and hopefully that will be enough. I think I can almost get away with stock voltage @ 4.8GHz... or a voltage of 1.25, something like that... again, waiting on the new fans to arrive before I really dig into it.





Oh, one more thing, 1.38V for 5 ghz? That seems like a lot for the clocks and lighter stress test.

BIOS vcore is set to "override" and 1.362 v, but under load we sometimes do see upwards of 1.38v in CPUz as you pointed out. It's okay because temps are holding, but yes I would like to dial that back a couple notches if possible. It's definitely on my radar. I've been reading some reviews on the 9600KF and it appears as though some overclockers have found it requires slightly more voltage than a 9900K or a 8086K when you start approaching the 5GHz zone. So apparently this is consistent behavior, which is a good thing I suppose


Now on to something that may be just a little more interactive than merely reading about and responding to my build log here...

My original motherboard for this project was the MSI Tomahawk Z390, but it was placed on the back burner after finding out the VRM section is not very stout, so I ordered up the 13 VRM beast of a board known as the MSI MAG Z390 ACE, thus keeping my "numbers matching" MSI themed build alive and well. Seriously, this board ROCKS!. Highly recommended.

That leaves me with a brand new, unopened tomahawk Z390.. and I cant return it! I figure I might as well build another rig with it, seeing as I have another spare Cooler Master Sileo 500 case laying around. My plan is to make some demon tweaks on my current 9600KF system, including a more robust power supply and perhaps 4800MHz memory (Newegg has some b-die G.Skill that's rated for 4800 for $400) Im also going to contact member DR4G00N from TPU to see if he can hook me up with some exotic black hole memory kit that can pull insane CL timings at insane frequencies…

And keep in mind, this is just idea, I might not follow through, but I wanted to get some feedback from you guys before I proceed, or at least fill you in on my intentions.

So the working theory here is that I would swap out my 4000Mhz DDR4 16GB G.skill kit and use it with the new MSI Tomahawk build instead, and while I am in there, I might as well move the 650W Antec NeoPower Blue PSU to the tomahawk system as well. It's old (matter of fact I think your recommendation at one point was to get rid of it due to age), but it still makes rock solid power and voltages are still spot on plus is pretty much silent, so that's a plus. For the sake of refinement, I'm seriously considering a better video card for my 9600KF system. Without a doubt, I feel I have enough confidence I can get this system to the overall performance ranking crown (100th percentile) at userbenchmark.com .... all I need is a better GPU Remember, there is only ONE computer separating me from that #1 postilion. So that goal is well within reach.

And to think, there were actually members at TPU who emphatically stated that I was not interested in performance for this build. LOL

Matter of fact, take a good look at the userbenchmark.com results again... my 9600KF rig is actually (technically) winning in three out of the four hardware benches. It literally smokes ALL the competition in the benchmark categories of CPU, RAM performance and SSD throughput. Ergo, my computer is theoretically operating at a level of performance that that is unmatched or unrivaled by any other system with similar hardware specs in the userbenchmark.com database. And believe me folks... this is not just a weekend bench competition between a few friends, no, with userbenchmark.com you are talking hundreds upon hundreds of submissions for the 9600KF alone. And frankly, that was my focus and my intent from day one. CPU Performance FIRST (I value per core performance over core count), GPU performance secondary.


So earthdog, what do you say, shall we bury the hatchet and build the tomahawk system? I thought this was apropos...

I was thinking of something along the lines of me building the actual machine at my place with input and advice from the community here. I thought it would be cool to ship the PC around to various members, after it's built, to see who can reach the highest clocks and who can come out on top in terms of benchmarking. It's obviously not going to break any records, but we can still have a competitive shootout of sorts.... I'm just brainstorming here, the shipping costs would be killer, but still, sounds like a good idea to me. And make for an interesting competition of sorts. Who knows, just an idea that popped into my head so I thought I'd pass it along.

Gotta use this tomahawk for somethin', might as well have the community benefit from this as well. So, lets build a system. I think most of us are hardware hoarders so there should be no shortage of components to build this out to our desired specs.

 

[EarthDog]

Maybe it's just me, but the color highlights(instead of using quotes)/bold/font size changes make your post difficult to read...


So here is a wall of text.

I really need to get a temp gun (laser), so I can pin point exact temps on my ram / heatsink or chipset during a given torture test The 5.25" card reader / fan controller has two temperature leads, so perhaps I can stick one to the RAM and another on the base of the CPU. YTBD. I have noticed that the motherboard is incredible in terms of thermal management. You can check the plotted temps in my torture test above, mainboard temps never crested the 100*F (sorry I'm mixing F with C and vice versa)

I don't see a point in a temp gun... the chipset doesn't get in the way of anything and RAM doesn't really need cooling. Knowing the temperature of the fins on a heatsink doesn't really tell you much at all. I'd save your money, time, and effort on that. Also note, the chipset temps may be found in your BIOS/MSI Command Center or Hwmonitor. Check there...

Please tell me about AVX... What exactly is this, an instruction set? That really makes the processors blood boil?
In reference to the 4.8GHz mark, this is not just an arbitrary number. I actually faced this same conundrum with my hyper 212 cooled FX X4 chip in a sealed up case - a situation in which the variables were not much different then they are right now.... Point being, anything above 4.850Ghz and you start losing the battle with thermal margins with air cooling. So I need to err on the side of caution here, be conservative and try to find that sweet spot on my new intel chip just like I did with the FX. And again, when the new fans arrive I will really work on making that happen. For now it's just experimentation.

AVX - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Vector_Extensions

Oh you and I both know what's going to happen lol. As soon as I close up the case will turn into a sauna almost instantaneously. But making this work as it stands MUST be done to carry through with my original vision for this build. We must stabilize and find reliability with the side covers on.
I've spent the last few minutes tweaking my fan controller for that very scenario. Within a 35*C spread the fan will ramp from 55% to 100%, so it's very aggressive and hopefully that will be enough. I think I can almost get away with stock voltage @ 4.8GHz... or a voltage of 1.25, something like that... again, waiting on the new fans to arrive before I really dig into it.

Oh we all did... glad to see you changed your tune about that old chassis.

BIOS vcore is set to "override" and 1.362 v, but under load we sometimes do see upwards of 1.38v in CPUz as you pointed out. It's okay because temps are holding, but yes I would like to dial that back a couple notches if possible. It's definitely on my radar. I've been reading some reviews on the 9600KF and it appears as though some overclockers have found it requires slightly more voltage than a 9900K or a 8086K when you start approaching the 5GHz zone. So apparently this is consistent behavior, which is a good thing I suppose

I'm surprised that CPU needs that much voltage for the type of stress test you are running (weaker using the system ram test with it). I'm surprised that cooler is hanging in so far... but then again, your stress test is short and on the weaker side of things.

My plan is to make some demon tweaks on my current 9600KF system, including a more robust power supply and perhaps 4800MHz memory (Newegg has some b-die G.Skill that's rated for 4800 for $400) Im also going to contact member DR4G00N from TPU to see if he can hook me up with some exotic black hole memory kit that can pull insane CL timings at insane frequencies…

That system, even highly overclocked, isn't going to pull more than 350-400W (and this is while stress testing both CPU and GPU at the same time - gaming loads around 300W). So, a quality 650W PSU is fine. As far as the memory... your choice, but I don't see a point in it unless you are benchmarking for Hwbot. If this is for fun and for the sake of tweaking, go for it... but faster memory really yields very little performance improvements (see links from TPU from weeks ago). Even with your story/goal, I would take that money and get a 8c/8t CPU so that PC will last longer. It will show its age in a short couple of years due to core/thread count. 4/8 or 6/6 would be considered a MINIMUM today...

I feel I have enough confidence I can get this system to the overall performance ranking crown (100th percentile) at userbenchmark.com .... all I need is a better GPU Remember, there is only ONE computer separating me from that #1 postilion. So that goal is well within reach.

Userbench is kind of a joke, bud (others talked about that at TPU as well). But if that is your goal... go for it!

And to think, there were actually members at TPU who emphatically stated that I was not interested in performance for this build. LOL

You missed their point if that is what you believe they were talking about. All that was said is your choices were curious for the goal you had in mind. The old style poor airflow case, the way too expensive heatsink (better performing for less), all could have went towards something better like a 8c/8t CPU or better GPU. Although you jumped forward in time pretty far (your core count stayed the same though, lol) cores and threads will rule sooner than later. That is all they/we were saying (and they are correct). What you prefer is what you prefer...

Edit: I dont want to debate the efficacy of the decision, note, they were simply saying with different choices here and there, an even better rig could have come out on the other side.

 

[storm-chaser]

So check this out earthdog.

I have the system stable with the sides closed. I can take video evidence if you want to confirm this...

I cleaned up all the wiring and tucked it neatly below the end of the video card. Makes a perfect raceway right there for all of the front IO, fan controller and card reader. Now it's out of the way.

And it's stable @ 5.0GHz

Would you believe it?

I removed the lower hard drive cage and routed all wiring for the front I/O tucked and zip tied neatly down by the vertical edge of the motherboard (see pics). That removed any potential restrictions in air flow, giving the front fan a much more direct channel to pull air through the lower portion of the case.


No doubt the twin Noctua 120mm Chromax NF=12 PWM fans are part of the reason why this was a successful build. And they really accent the red and black / msi theme I was going for. Who says you cant have aesthetics, performance and a quiet running machine all at the same time? <----------------------NOT THIS GUY!

49 minute torture test, rock solid

 

[storm-chaser]

Maybe it's just me, but the color highlights(instead of using quotes)/bold/font size changes make your post difficult to read...

You missed their point if that is what you believe they were talking about. All that was said is your choices were curious for the goal you had in mind. The old style poor airflow case, the way too expensive heatsink (better performing for less), all could have went towards something better like a 8c/8t CPU or better GPU. Although you jumped forward in time pretty far (your core count stayed the same though, lol) cores and threads will rule sooner than later. That is all they/we were saying (and they are correct). What you prefer is what you prefer...

Edit: I dont want to debate the efficacy of the decision, note, they were simply saying with different choices here and there, an even better rig could have come out on the other side.

I can tell you for a fact, a couple people on the very first build thread that got shut down said very clearly that I was not interested in "performance" with this build. That's what I'm referencing. I have no problem with your point, and you make a good one at that.

I guess they didn't think

5,000MHz all core overclock on the CPU
4000MHz on the memory clock and
4900MHz on the north bridge

classifies as "high performance" I don't mind them nit picking my parts and stuff, heck even the constructive criticism is good once in a while. But gosh, to say something like that about the parts I'm using here is just plain wrong. Performance is always a major factor many, if not all of my PC builds. It's been that way since the beginning and that will likely never change, ya know?

Anyway, that's all I wanted to say - now lets get back to business.


I lowered the core voltage to 1.354 (but it still jumps to 1.362 sometimes under load)… so we will see if the system is stable like this.

Once I get the core voltage dialed in 100% I will start working on fine tuning the RAM. Very excited, hoping to hit high 30s in memory latency...



EDIT: No go on the lower vcore. 1.360 is where it has to stay.

Now the fun can begin. Memory overclocking. TPU user fly1ngh1gh is going to help me with the timings. Hoping for high 30 ns latency... Let's see how this goes.

I put a temp sensor at the base of the ram heat sink. So when I start overclocking the RAM and raising voltages I can keep a handle on temps....

Stay tuned, updates to follow.

 

[EarthDog]

What did the temperatures go up to from when the case side was off (same voltage, etc)? I see temps in F....but again, we've ways read things (and chips are rated) in Celsius... not sure why you like to convert.

What are temps, in Celsius, if you run FPU only in aida64? What about small fft in p95?

Have fun tweaking!

 

[storm-chaser]

What did the temperatures go up to from when the case side was off (same voltage, etc)? I see temps in F....but again, we've ways read things (and chips are rated) in Celsius... not sure why you like to convert.

What are temps, in Celsius, if you run FPU only in aida64? What about small fft in p95?

Have fun tweaking!

In terms of processor temps? With the side off believe it or not they were about the same... I wish I had taken a snip of my core temp... matter of fact I haven't rebooted since that torture test so here are the results, regrettably, in *F... but I will convert for you.

Max core temp (from the torture test with both sides on the case) was from core #2 and that reached 88.8 * C...
But during the torture test I did see lower numbers as well, in other words, it shot up to 88*C at some point, but overall the temps were much more reasonable, averaging probably 75-80*C, with a few spikes up to the high 80s. Never stayed there for more than a second or two.



I will try those other tests and report back. I am a little nervous about prime95... Im not gonna lie.

 

[EarthDog]

Of course processor temps!! What else?

I highly doubt they were the same...you other tests were around 70-80C, right? This is 89C...

...which is as hot as you ever want that CPU to go. You are maxed out. It won't run P95 small FFT (using avx) without getting a lot warmer and potentially throttling. With AVX being used in more and more functions, I'd want to see what that looks like so I know if I need to set an AVX offset (which is typical). Spikes are spikes and cannot (well, should not) be dismissed. The reason why you see those spikes is because of the instruction set used during the test. It isn't sitting there doing the same thing all the time.

 

[storm-chaser]

Of course processor temps!! What else?

I highly doubt they were the same...you other tests were around 70-75C, right? This is 90C...

...which is as hot as you ever want that CPU to go. You are maxed out. It won't run P95 small FFT (using avx) without getting a lot warmer and potentially throttling. With AVX being used in more and more functions, I'd want to see what that looks like so I know if I need to set an AVX offset (which is typical). Spikes are spikes and cannot (well, should not) be dismissed.

Right, but you have to remember, I am never going to put this machine under the stresses that prime95 will put it under. Essentially, if I can run BF4 on ultra and I can pass an hour of AIDA64, that is enough for me to know the system will be stable for my purposes. But I still want to try those to see how it does...

The big difference from before, when the case cover was open, was my PWM profiles for the fans. I kept them lazy, more or less. No need to fine tune them because of the ventilation.

But, with the case closed, I ramped up the profiles very aggressively. Meaning, the fans spool up very quickly to get ahead of the spikes.

Remember, I can always get a pair of 140mm fans for this cooler, so there is a potential for more cooling capability here with the existing hardware, if I need to go there.

 

[EarthDog]

So, because of the case, you had to crank up the fans and make more noise. Gotcha! I bought enough cooling to leave all my fans on low... not a fan of noise, even 3 PC fans, when working with my PC. I can't hear it gaming, but since I work out of my house these days, silience is critical for my sanity.

As I said before, you may not intentionally put it under that much stress, but many things already and more as time goes on, will use those instructions sets. It's best to be prepared for it. Also, its winter so your room ambient may go up a couple of C in the summer (that is with AC).

Your speakers are still all borked and not in teh right spots, btw. If you want surround sound, you need the rear speakers to be behind your seating area, not to the left.

 

[storm-chaser]

wow this forum is dead...

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So, because of the case, you had to crank up the fans and make more noise. Gotcha! I bought enough cooling to leave all my fans on low... not a fan of noise, even 3 PC fans, when working with my PC. I can't hear it gaming, but since I work out of my house these days, silience is critical for my sanity.

As I said before, you may not intentionally put it under that much stress, but many things already and more as time goes on, will use those instructions sets. It's best to be prepared for it. Also, its winter so your room ambient may go up a couple of C in the summer (that is with AC).

Your speakers are still all borked and not in teh right spots, btw. If you want surround sound, you need the rear speakers to be behind your seating area, not to the left.

Still a little shell shocked I was able to do 5.0GHz in a closed, sound dampened case right?

Its "the" not "teh". As I said before, you are welcome to come over and do my interior design work you seem like you've got a natural knack for that

EDIT: The case is actually very quiet, for the most part. You'd likely be surprised, it's nearly silent at most tasks below 75% CPU utilization, which is what I use it for most of the time anyway.

 

[EarthDog]

Still a little shell shocked I was able to do 5.0GHz in a closed, sound dampened case right?

Nope. Not with AIDA!

Its "the" not "teh". As I said before, you are welcome to come over and do my interior design work you seem like you've got a natural knack for that

LOL @ jumping on a typo...

lol, yeah, I'm a bit OCD myself and looking at that picture makes the audiophile in me shudder to hear rear surrounds coming from the front left. I'll leave it alone as I rock back and forth in the fetal position in a corner.

 

[storm-chaser]

Nope. Not with AIDA!

LOL @ jumping on a typo...

lol, yeah, I'm a bit OCD myself and looking at that picture makes the audiophile in me shudder to hear rear surrounds coming from the front left. I'll leave it alone as I rock back and forth in the fetal position in a corner.

I left it like that just for you, earthdog. Of course I switched it back to the right side, I just had to give the dog a bone if you know what I mean