Memory cooling mods on the TH7-II

[batboy]

I managed to reach 2.66 gig with my system and by cooling the RAM modules have gotten my memory to run at full speed too. For details of my latest overclocking adventures follow this link.

http://forum.oc-forums.com/vb/showthread.php?threadid=72865

TC and I have been discussing this RAM cooling issue. TC raises an interesting question. Is it the cooling of the actual RAM modules that helped me to run the memory bus faster or is it the ICS clock generator chips being cooled that helped?

I found the DRCG chips on my TH7-II and they are both located in between the first RIMM slot and the CPU socket. Right next to that big Swiftech CPU heatsink that probably puts off lots of heat, hmmmm. The 80mm fan I mounted to blow fresh air on the RDRAM also blows directly onto the two clock generator chips, hmmmm.

Now I'm beginning to think maybe cooling both the RAM modules and the DRCG chips might be helpful. I'm going to borrow a buddy's remote temp probe and do a little research to see just how warm those chips and RAM heat spreader actually get.

I'm considering cutting down a little wing finned heatsink to attach to the two clock generators if they prove to get warm. I wonder if it would be worthwhile to pry off the RAM heat spreaders and attach real heatsinks to the memory chips?

I'd like to hear comments or suggestions you might have. Running the RDRAM at full FSB is critical to obtaining the best performance from these Northwood systems. Anyone else have memory or clock generator cooling ideas?

 

[Turbo]

Were interesting discussion here. I just tried to touch my rdram modules. Now from what I understand they only get hot in certain spots right? Please correct me if I'm wrong. Now these babies have been running at 133 Mhz fsb at 4x for 14 hours straight, and they weren't even hot to the touch at least from what I could tell. And I've even spent the last 3 hours benching my system (I just got another couple of harddisks I'm trying out). It might very well be the clock generator chips that suffer the most from heat, but if it is, they're in a terrible spot cooling wise, aren't they

Have any of you guys actually measured the temp of those clock generators under load? I'm not sure how excatly to fit a probe, for a reliable and compareable result. But if there's anything I can do to help or assist the "investigation", please let me know. I'd be happy to help.

 

[LarryJoe]

batboy - can you snap a picture of that fan blowing on the RAM? I would like to see how and where you mounted it. Thanks.

 

[batboy]

All I did was temporarily wire up a 80mm fan to a case support to blow air down on the RAM (I have yet to put the side cover on this computer). This was mainly just for testing purposes. I'll eventually make a blow hole in the side cover and permanently mount a fan if this method proves to be effective. I also have yet to tidy up my power wires and to install my brand new rounded IDE cables.

 

[batboy]

Ok, I finished conducting my temperature experiments and here are the results.

Northwood 2.0a overclocked to 2.5 gig @ 1.75v on a TH7-II using two sticks of 128 meg Samsung RDRAM running at 500 MHz. Ambient temp ranged from 20.2 to 20.4 degrees. I used a Radio Shack digital thermometer with a remote probe duct taped first to the RAM heat spreader and then to one of the ICS clock generator chips (DRCG). All temps were taken after 15 minutes of running the Unreal game demo loop.

RDRAM without the extra 80mm fan: 26.7
RDRAM with the extra 80mm fan on: 23.7

ICS chip without the extra 80mm fan: 26.8
ICS chip with the extra 80mm fan on: 25.2

System temps dropped 2 degrees with the extra fan on.
CPU temps dropped about 0.5 to 1 degree with the fan.

I think there is very good evidence here that a side blow hole fan will provide significant cooling to justify installing it. RDRAM temps dropped 3 degrees, DRCG temps dropped 1.6 degrees (the duct tape covering the chip in order to hold the probe on might of thrown these temps off a bit), system temps dropped 2 degrees and even the CPU temps improve by a 1/2 to 1 degree.

 

[TC]

Hmm, not quite as warm as I would have guessed. At one point I had a pair of 256MB sticks and those were hot to the touch, but the smaller sizes don't produce much heat.

Going by the specs on the clock generators I would suspect the best results would be had from cooling the ones that aren't rated for more than 400MHz - i.e. 100FSB stock speed. My past experience has led me to believe that name brand rimms are actually quite capable of 533 or better. If the drcg's are not producing a clean signal the rimms aren't going to work properly.

Seems to me a lot of mobo manufacturers producing 850 boards with supposedly good overclocking options have overlooked this key component. Batboy has mentioned that there may be a new revision of the TH7II that will incorporate the better quality drcg's rated for 500+. Supposedly the new version is distinguished by having AC2001 audio versus AC97. I have been unable to find anything about this. If anyone has heard more about this please let us know.

 

[zzzz]

I have two Th7-II with AC2001 and the ICS-03 DRCGs. These are ok (rated for 500Mhz) but not the best out there. Some guys have the ICS-13's which are rated for 600 mhz. Does any one know of a place which sells mobos with the ICS-13?

 

[TC]

I have two Th7-II with AC2001 and the ICS-03 DRCGs. These are ok (rated for 500Mhz) but not the best out there. Some guys have the ICS-13's which are rated for 600 mhz. Does any one know of a place which sells mobos with the ICS-13?

Heck I'd like to know where you got yours that have AC2001....I've seen absolutely no mention of it anywhere.

 

[LarryJoe]

TC,

There has yet to be a corrolation. There have been a few posts over at Anands for people looking fo a pattern in hopes of getting the 13 chips. there are 3 possible indicators:

BIOS 37 vs. 38
ICS Chips 1 vs 13
Sound AC97 vs AC2001

you would think that the bios would be the best indicator of newness, however, so far everyone who got the AC2001 sound, also got the 37 BIOS.

Me, I got the 38 BIOS, 13 chips, but AC97 sound. I still can't run my RAM at 533

 

[batboy]

My DRCG have the following printed on them:

ICS 9212DF-03
0136

Supposedly they are rated for 500 MHz and will do 533 with the extra fan blowing on the chips and RAM.

My TH7-II that I got from newegg.com over 2 months ago has the AC97 sound and had the "37" BIOS.

 

[gone_fishin]

TC,

There has yet to be a corrolation. There have been a few posts over at Anands for people looking fo a pattern in hopes of getting the 13 chips. there are 3 possible indicators:

BIOS 37 vs. 38
ICS Chips 1 vs 13
Sound AC97 vs AC2001

you would think that the bios would be the best indicator of newness, however, so far everyone who got the AC2001 sound, also got the 37 BIOS.

Me, I got the 38 BIOS, 13 chips, but AC97 sound. I still can't run my RAM at 533

Mine came with AC2001, 38 bios, and ICS 9212DF-03. I recently got it to post at PC1200.
Read how here:

http://forum.oc-forums.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=73697

 

[LarryJoe]

Sweet. Yet another scenario to throw into the mix. Seems to be luck of the draw.

 

[zzzz]

Heck I'd like to know where you got yours that have AC2001

Got it from newegg..

 

[arch5]

Mine also does not follow the norm from Anand. I got the 37bios, AC 2001, and the 03 ICS. My ICS chips have the same numbers as Batboy's except the last four on mine are 0135, not 0136.

I also had no problem getting to 533Mhz for my 2-256Mb sticks.

I've also been wondering about cooling the ram because mine get quite hot. I've seen a Ram watercooling setup at OCHideout that looks pretty cool.

Arch5

 

[woofer]

My DRCG have the following printed on them:

ICS 9212DF-03
0136

Supposedly they are rated for 500 MHz and will do 533 with the extra fan blowing on the chips and RAM.

Sorry but the "ICS 9212DF-03 " are only rated for 400mhz....

http://www.icst.com/products/pdf/9212-03.pdf

TI CDCFR83 DRCG,s are rated At 533mhz...

http://www-s.ti.com/sc/ds/cdcfr83.pdf


I have some 533mhz DRCG on the way , follow this link and you can obtain some FREE!! samples..

http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/productfolder.jhtml?genericPartNumber=CDCFR83

look on the left hand side and follow the instructions

 

[woofer]

Just decided to take the origional heatspreades off a couple of sticks of ram i have...

HMMM!!! From what i found , i dont think they ( heatspreaders) would really be that effective. The thermal strip between the chips and the heatspreader is VERY thick!!!!cant see how it could conduct heat very well..

Attached are a couple of pics..

Will be machining up some suitable "custom" sinks shortly , will post pics back here when i finish..

 

[woofer]

pic 2

 

[batboy]

Woofer, thanks for straightening me out about my DRCG chips and providing those informative links. Replacing those clock generators look like a bigger task than I'm willing to tackle. Aren't they soldered onto the mobo?

Looks like you beat me to the draw about removing the RDRAM heat spreaders. Did you just drill out the rivets? I figured there could be lots of improvement pulling those off and mounting real heatsinks directly onto the memory chips. I just need to find some that will fit or modify something that will work.

***added*** I like that last pic where it says "warranty void if removed" on the heat spreader.

Here is Thermaltakes RAM cooling kit for SDRAM and DDR memory. You'd think they or someone else would make a cooling kit for our RDRAM soon.

 

[gone_fishin]

Good job on removing the heatspreaders. I wanted to see what they looked like. Did you drill out the rivots to get them off?

If you go water cooling this is what I would get.

https://www.overclockershideout.com...tore_Code=o&Product_Code=RAS&Category_Code=WB

I know it's a bit pricey but if you want to do it right....

And about the DRCG's, if the -03's are only rated at 400mhz why do they run at 533mhz. I can even get them to post at 600mhz but I suspect you need to increase the voltage to the memory up to 2.7volts and that would require water cooling.

 

[woofer]

Good job on removing the heatspreaders. I wanted to see what they looked like. Did you drill out the rivots to get them off?

Yes..the heatspreades are very easy to remove, just use a small drill to remove the cap off the brass rivots..


batboy.....I havnt come across any other passive cooling sinks that are dedicated to RDRAM..

I am going to Mill some on the weekend and see how they go.

If you know someone( a freind?) with a turrent Mill it would be a VERY quick project to make some for yourself.

Just use a strip of 8mm Alloy and Mill a series of vertical fins ...about 6mm deep . Use a 4mm End Mill and space the fins about 2mm apart....should work rather well. Will post some pics here when i finish..