New To Over Clocking, but not to computers

[TransformedBG]

So over the years i have built many a desktop computers, ive been around since the days of using jumper pins to set the CPU clock speed and voltage. So i know a little about over clocking but not through the bios.

Right now My computer is as follows:
Case: Thermaltake Spedo Advance Package
Motherboard: Asus Crosshair III Formula
Processor: AMD Phenom II X4 965 Black Edition Deneb 3.4GHz (140W)
CPU Cooler: Corsair H50
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 1600 DDR3 16Gb (4x4Gb)
Hard Drive 1: Corisr Force 3 SSD 120Gb
Hard Drive 2: Maxtor Green 1Tb
Video Card 1: Diamond Radeon HD 5870 1GB GDR5 850MHz
Video Card 2: Diamond Radeon HD 5870 1GB GDR5 850MHz

Currently I have everything in the bios Set to [Auto] and havent started with any of the overclocking. I have been reading through Dolks Guide to the Phenom II Just trying to get a basic understanding of what i should be doing. So i started out by taking a few Screen Shots of how things are running now just to get a base line:

After looking at that I was going through my product summery such as ram and discovered that my Ram Timings should be:
Timing 9-9-9-24
Cas Latency 9
Voltage 1.5V

Current Bios Verion i have is Version 2003 dated 10/21/11 (any update needed?)

But right now Im not showing anywhere near that. So i was thinking that would be the best place to start. I just wanted to make sure that im reading everything right and i want to understand what im doing rather than just plugging in numbers and hoping its right.

Ultimate goal is to try and get to about the 3.8-4.0 MHz range (stable) Just looking for helpful advice.

 

[dostov]

Yep, you can begin by setting your memory timings first. Go in BIOS and enter 9-9-9-24 (CL-tRCD-tRP-tRAS) and make sure your voltage is also set properly. Reboot and test for stability.

 

[TransformedBG]

I was using Tomshardware memory posting to identify what im changing so i could understand a little better
Okay looking at the timing ins BIOS:
DRAM 1st Information: 11-11-11-28-6-39-12-5
TCL [Auto] -> Should change to 9? (range 3-17) this should be CAS Latency?
TRCD [Auto] -> Should change to 9? (range 2-10) Row address to column address?
TRP [Auto] -> Should change to 9? (range 5-12) Row Precharge time?
TRAS [Auto] -> Should change to 24? (range 15-29) Row Active time?

Everything else do not change?

and then on
Dram 2nd Information: 9-10-6-4-4-160-160
i dont need to do anything?

out side that menu i am seeing
DRAM Voltage [Auto]
Current Voltage: 1.197v 1.111V (Fluctuating) 1.812V 1.204V

So my voltage should be 1.5? when i go to change it it has like 1.501 1.511 etc should i just start on the lowest?

 

[TransformedBG]

A side not i see Dram Command rate [Auto] -> Can be changed to 1T or 2T

and i see on my timings 9-9-9-24-2N (what is the 2N?)

Never mind figured that out lol.. sorry...

Plugged in the timing and im showing:
CL -9
tRCD 9
tRP 9
tRAS 24
tRC 39
CR 2

So looks like everything is running smooth. is there any other way to check ram stability?

 

[RGone]

When you say ram stability it is misleading in my mind or I begin to think about the wrong thing. You can check ram with Memtest86+ and it can hint at too tight timings or too fast by reporting an error. But that error could be a sign of bad ram which is what I see Memtest86+ most often used to help diagnose defective ram.

You can run Prime95 in blend mode which in effect is pushing the cpu and ram to see if the Prime95 Algorithm fails. Doing so can show up as no failure and mean the ram and the cpu clock are both generally stable.
RGone...

 

[trents]

My advice to you is to start out with the ram running at 1333 mhz instead of 1600 mhz since the Deneb CPU you are using it with has an integrated memory controller (IMC) rated only for 1333 mhz. Get your overclock dialed in first with the ram at 1333 and then go back and try it at 1600 mhz. Denebs will often run ram at 1600 mhz if the timings are relaxed beyond the ram manufacturer’s recommendations for the timings at that frequency. Later generations of AMD CPUs had stouter IMCs than the Denebs and could handle the 1600 mhz much easier.

 

[Tech Tweaker]

Are the temperatures you are showing at load or when the PC is idle?

 

[TransformedBG]

My advice to you is to start out with the ram running at 1333 mhz instead of 1600 mhz since the Deneb CPU you are using it with has an integrated memory controller (IMC) rated only for 1333 mhz. Get your overclock dialed in first with the ram at 1333 and then go back and try it at 1600 mhz. Denebs will often run ram at 1600 mhz if the timings are relaxed beyond the ram manufacturer’s recommendations for the timings at that frequency. Later generations of AMD CPUs had stouter IMCs than the Denebs and could handle the 1600 mhz much easier.

So what your saying if i understand this right, i can select 1333MHz and my computer will clock it to 1600 regardless?

Are the temperatures you are showing at load or when the PC is idle?

They were actually sitting after i had been playing W.O.W. for a couple hours. lol the only one that scares me is my mother board temp... for some reason i dont think thats right...

 

[Johan45]

So what your saying if i understand this right, i can select 1333MHz and my computer will clock it to 1600 regardless?

No what he is saying is start out your OC at1333. If you raise the FSB frequency at all it will increase your ram speed as well. It will be easier to oc this way. You won't have to consider your ram as the source of instability.

They were actually sitting after i had been playing W.O.W. for a couple hours. lol the only one that scares me is my mother board temp... for some reason i dont think thats right...

You really should post your temps with P95 running in the background. P95 will load your system to 100% and give uas a very good idea of your current temps uinder load and how much headroom you have available for additional heat caused by raising volts and frequencies.

 

[TransformedBG]

You really should post your temps with P95 running in the background. P95 will load your system to 100% and give uas a very good idea of your current temps uinder load and how much headroom you have available for additional heat caused by raising volts and frequencies.

That i can do.. Im going to make sure the system is clean and free of any dust fist then im going to start overclocking.


Now I know that if i go lower on the mem fre and bring up the front side bus speed that mem timing will go up. I was playing around with front side buss and i have gone up to a 270 FSB speed that was stable so far. But then i started thinking do i need to do FSB first? cause i know i need to do CPU and HTT as well.

 

[RGone]

TransformedBG
Dolk's Guide to the Phenom II << Link Is Below.
http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=596023

That guide will give you more or should help with a more clear understanding of how the busses work on Phenom2 cpus.

Bioses change the naming conventions even between boards of the same manufacturer and certainly between manufacturers.

CPU Multiplier is often called CPU Ratio
FSB is really NO more. For AMD Phenom2 it is HT Frequency in most bioses
CPU_NB Frequency is just that. It is changed as the HT Frequency changes.
HT Link Frequency is changed as you change the HT Frequency.
Ram Speed changes as you change the HT Frequency.
Plus of course the Cpu Speed changes as you change the HT Frequency since the Cpu Speed is derived from multipling the CPU Ration times the HT Frequency.

But then i started thinking do i need to do FSB first? cause i know i need to do CPU and HTT as well.

So it is not a situation of do one and then either or of the other buss adjustments really as there are four speed changes happening as you raise the HT Frequency. (what we used to call the FSB)

In reality the Tutorial link above is very good. Except that he too clings to the older FSB terminology. The main thing to remember is that a true FSB is not used on later AMD cpus. It is more accurately called the HT Frequency as I am now understanding. There are plenty of g00gle hits on AMD buss terminology.
RGone...

 

[trents]

So what your saying if i understand this right, i can select 1333MHz and my computer will clock it to 1600 regardless?

No. If you select manually select 1333 as your ram speed in bios it will stay that way unless you overclock with the FSB. If you just use the core speed multiplier to overclock it will not change. The RAM frequency, the CPUNB frequency and the HT Link frequency all rise with the FSB frequency if you overclock with that method. The FSB (aka, HT Reference) is the master frequency bus of the system and those other frequencies are tuned to it.

 

[Johan45]

TransformedBG
In reality the Tutorial link above is very good. Except that he too clings to the older FSB terminology. The main thing to remember is that a true FSB is not used on later AMD cpus. It is more accurately called the HT Frequency as I am now understanding. There are plenty of g00gle hits on AMD buss terminology.
RGone...

. The FSB (aka, HT Reference) is the master frequency bus of the system and those other frequencies are tuned to it.

I have just found it easier to call it the FSB anymore. I have said the HT ref clock in some posts and people just don't know what I mean. Besides FSB is easier to type.

 

[RGone]

I have just found it easier to call it the FSB anymore. I have said the HT ref clock in some posts and people just don't know what I mean. Besides FSB is easier to type.

I suspect so if you have fanger issues. Hehehe.
Bobert...ster.

 

[Johan45]

I suspect so if you have fanger issues. Hehehe.
Bobert...ster.

Aw man now you're jumping threads. I son't see haw this is even relevant!

 

[TransformedBG]

Since someone asked...

Ive been running Prime95 for a good 30 mins now and thought i would post my results

(temp in the room is actually about 78°F)

 

[trents]

Turn off core unlocker, dude. Having it on interferes with core temp readout. You don't think your cores are running at "0" celcius do you, as HWMonitor shows in your pic? You don't have any cores to unlock anyway in that 965 Deneb. Don't confuse core unlocking with having an unlocked CPU. The Black editions have unlocked core speed multipliers and that is very different than unlocking hidden physical cores.

 

[Zebodog]

My advice to you is to start out with the ram running at 1333 mhz instead of 1600 mhz since the Deneb CPU you are using it with has an integrated memory controller (IMC) rated only for 1333 mhz. Get your overclock dialed in first with the ram at 1333 and then go back and try it at 1600 mhz. Denebs will often run ram at 1600 mhz if the timings are relaxed beyond the ram manufacturer’s recommendations for the timings at that frequency. Later generations of AMD CPUs had stouter IMCs than the Denebs and could handle the 1600 mhz much easier.

To play devils advocate, loosen the timings too much and you could have a real world, worse performing system at 1600 mhz than at 1333 mhz.

I agree with your overall strategy: get your overclock worked out and stable first and then worry about getting the memory to 1600 mhz. If your overclocking using the HT Frequency, you may get your RAM overclock anyway!

 

[TransformedBG]

Turn off core unlocker, dude. Having it on interferes with core temp readout. You don't think your cores are running at "0" celcius do you, as HWMonitor shows in your pic? You don't have any cores to unlock anyway in that 965 Deneb. Don't confuse core unlocking with having an unlocked CPU. The Black editions have unlocked core speed multipliers and that is very different than unlocking hidden physical cores.

Crap i forgot i even did that...

 

[TransformedBG]

Okay so now that the are locked again... Ran for about an hour.

looks like i maxed at about 54°C :=/ not sure that leaves me much to play with.