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Please help building my new PC

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creativus

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Aug 12, 2017
I need to build a new pc but seeing that the GPUs are overpriced a lot, I want to build a new PC with my old GPU, which is a GTX 750 Ti that I use overclocked getting the performance of a GTX 660. I want to find the cheapest CPU and motherboard deal that won't be an overkill for that GPU but won't limit performance as well and won't have compatibility problems with Windows 10.

After searching through system requirements of some games on Steam listing GTX 660 as a requirement, I found the most powerful CPU listed with that GPU and searched for some CPUs roughly that strong. One of the deals I found is for a GIGABYTE GA-H77-DS3H and an Intel Xeon E3-1230, and another is an MSI H81M-P33 and an Intel Core i5-4590, but I don't know if I can overclock my GTX 750 Ti with those motherboards, I think I can't overclock those CPUs at least.

Those are used parts but come with a return warranty and free shipping.

I see game-debate.com suggests an i5-3470, which is said to be 9-15% less powerful than the CPUs I've mentioned, for a GTX 660.

Do you have any tips ? Are there any good deals around that level of performance ?
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
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What is your current system?

What is your budget? You just need a cpu/mobo/ram only right? You have a decent power supply and case?

Those are fairly old cpus....I would get something notably newer if your budget allows.

You can overclock your video card on any motherboard. The mobo is irrelevant for a video card...you use software in windows to do it.
 
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creativus

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Aug 12, 2017
- - - Auto-Merged Double Post - - -

What is your current system?

What is your budget? You just need a cpu/mobo/ram only right? You have a decent power supply and case?

Those are fairly old cpus....I would get something notably newer if your budget allows.

You can overclock your video card on any motherboard. The mobo is irrelevant for a video card...you use software in windows to do it.

Yes, I need a cpu/mobo/ram only. I have enough of a budget to get better but I think it won't bring better gaming performance with my GTX 750 Ti. I also checked Ryzen R3 1200 but it's said to be 9% worse than Intel Xeon E3-1230 and 4% worse than Intel Core i5-4590 and it costs quite more than them, even if I get it used.

Do I need 2 or 4 sticks of RAM compared to 1 to get better performance with those systems Intel systems ? Does RAM speed matter ?
 

Janus67

Benching Team Leader
Joined
May 29, 2005
Do you never plan to buy a newer card at some point? I agree with ED, that it seems odd to buy a CPU and motherboard that are pushing 7+ years old. If you can afford something from a newer generation (say the 8700k or newer for Intel) it would last a heck of a lot longer.
 
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creativus

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Aug 12, 2017
Do you never plan to buy a newer card at some point? I agree with ED, that it seems odd to buy a CPU and motherboard that are pushing 7+ years old. If you can afford something from a newer generation (say the 8700k or newer for Intel) it would last a heck of a lot longer.

I will buy a GPU when the prices normalise or when I'm not enjoying gaming with my GTX 750 Ti anymore but I will probably keep playing Rocket League for a decade and maybe more for example, which works well with that GPU.

I guess one of those systems might work with a better GPU as well, I see that Steam VR lists GTX 970 together with i5-4590 as its requirement, so I guess a GPU with roughly the performance of a GTX 970 would work with those systems.

I don't know about what would last how long though. I think my oldest computer kept working for almost 2 decades without needing a new part.
 

EarthDog

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- - - Auto-Merged Double Post - - -



Yes, I need a cpu/mobo/ram only. I have enough of a budget to get better but I think it won't bring better gaming performance with my GTX 750 Ti. I also checked Ryzen R3 1200 but it's said to be 9% worse than Intel Xeon E3-1230 and 4% worse than Intel Core i5-4590 and it costs quite more than them, even if I get it used.

Do I need 2 or 4 sticks of RAM compared to 1 to get better performance with those systems Intel systems ? Does RAM speed matter ?
Then get the best you can/want to afford.

Again, what system are you coming from?

As was said these systems are several years old you're wanting to buy now. I would look for something like Janus said in Intel 8 series or AMD 2000 series or newer if possible.

As far as the RAM question, yes you want two sticks to put in dual channel for best performance.

What resolution do you game at? 1080p I assume? If so, that is a CPU-dependent res and you want the best you can/want to afford. Then, when you get a GPU the CPU won't be holding you back again (as all those you listed previously will at 1080p).
 
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creativus

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Aug 12, 2017
Then get the best you can/want to afford.

Again, what system are you coming from?

As was said these systems are several years old you're wanting to buy now. I would look for something like Janus said in Intel 8 series or AMD 2000 series or newer if possible.

As far as the RAM question, yes you want two sticks to put in dual channel for best performance.

What resolution do you game at? 1080p I assume? If so, that is a CPU-dependent res and you want the best you can/want to afford. Then, when you get a GPU the CPU won't be holding you back again (as all those you listed previously will at 1080p).

Yes, I game at 1080p. My current CPU is a Xeon E5450 working on a Gigabyte GA-P43-ES3G motherboard, it used to work with 2 brands of 8GB RAM and a CPU overclock but I guess 1 or 2 of those sticks have a problem so it's now working with 4GB of RAM and it also doesn't let a CPU overclock anymore. I will be using it in another room connected to a TV with a cheap GPU such as a GT 220. My new internet connection comes with access to a smart TV application but my smart TV doesn't have that application so I will use that PC to access that on its website instead on a TV.

I also checked the new CPU prices thinking what I'd buy if I would also get a new GPU and Ryzen 5 3500 and Ryzen 5 3600 seemed like fine deals but it would probably be too much for my GTX 750 Ti for too long.

GPU prices depend on the demand from cryptocurrency miners and I guess there is no foreseeable reason for that demand to go down, and I don't want to be paying a few times the normal price at least while I can still enjoy gaming with my GTX 750 Ti.
 

EarthDog

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if I would also get a new GPU and Ryzen 5 3500 and Ryzen 5 3600 seemed like fine deals but it would probably be too much for my GTX 750 Ti for too long.
I don't even know what this means...'too much for the CPU'. You're making stuff up. ;)

Get the best CPU you can... the GPU will come in time (when you need it and prices go down). :)
 
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creativus

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Aug 12, 2017
I don't even know what this means...'too much for the CPU'. You're making stuff up. ;)

Get the best CPU you can... the GPU will come in time (when you need it and prices go down). :)

GPU bottleneck in every application... GPU is not powerful enough while only a fraction of the CPU is needed or used... It may go that way for years if I buy a better CPU.
 

trents

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2008
The thing is though, you'll pay as much or more for older used stuff than you will for newer technology that may give better performance. When stuff gets so old it also gets scarce and that drives prices up.
 
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creativus

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The thing is though, you'll pay as much or more for older used stuff than you will for newer technology that may give better performance. When stuff gets so old it also gets scarce and that drives prices up.

Intel Core i5-4590 and MSI H81M-P33 cost 92.31 USD, Intel Xeon E3-1230 and GIGABYTE GA-H77-DS3H cost 92.07 USD, on the other hand among the new parts AMD Ryzen 3 1200 and Elsa EA B350M-A cost 124.76 USD but they will also need 2x4GB DDR4 RAM instead of 4x2GB DDR3 RAM which costs 20.15 USD higher even when DDR3 is bought new and a case with a USB 3.0 port would suit them better, which I don't have while I have an extra USB 2.0 case. Prices are converted to USD from another currency.

Performance wise, according to game-debate.com AMD Ryzen 3 1200 is 4% worse than i5-4590 and 9% worse than Intel Xeon E3 1230 although I just realized that pc-builds.com compares AMD Ryzen 3 1200 more favourably, it shows 106.18 FPS for AMD Ryzen 3 1200 and 91.22 and 85.37 FPS for Intel Core i5-4590 and Intel Xeon E3-1230 respectively at 1080p, but I think that wouldn't mean better performance with a GTX 750 Ti even when it's overclocked because those older CPUs would already be too good for that GPU.

userbenchmark.com rates Ryzen 3 1200 63% for gaming while it rates Core i5-4590 at 73% and Xeon E3-1230 at 70% for gaming.

I'm having a hard time comparing performances, different websites show different comparisons, though I don't think that would be relevant for a GTX 750 Ti.
 

EarthDog

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I would stop looking at those websites for comparison...especially userbenchmark. Look at legitimate reviews (places like here, techpowerup, etc). ;)

GPU bottleneck in every application... GPU is not powerful enough while only a fraction of the CPU is needed or used... It may go that way for years if I buy a better CPU
A cpu can still bottleneck your system, bud. And while the parts you're looking for are an upgrade, again, you're not moving far up the chain. When upgrading, your gpu doesn't matter much in this context. Get the best cpu you can/want to afford. There's absolutely no way I'd upgrade to the parts you listed for the reasons you mentioned...doesnt make sense.

If you can/want to afford better, you should get it....this is why I asked for a budget for the three components you need. We'll get you the best we can for the money using a strong knowledge base to get there.

Edit: what happens in a year or two when you get a gpu and you're stuck with a quad core cpu from 7 years ago? You'll have to buy again as the system puts a glass ceiling over the card. Buy once! Get the best you can/want to afford.

So...again... max budget, plz?
 

Zerileous

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2002
It sounds like you want or need to build a new PC so your old PC can be turned into a sort of HTPC or something to run a streaming app. And also concern that your memory is not working well.

Other than the 4gb of memory, does the current PC satisfy your current needs? Maybe we should switch gears and evaluate if that could easily be remedied (could be a motherboard problem or a memory problem, trying each stick independently in each memory slot should clear up what the problem is). If you're perfectly comfortable gaming on your current system and you really just need a fresh 8GB kit of memory and to re-paste the CPU and blow dust out of the cooler to get another year out of it, then that's a better idea than trying to build a system out of old hardware to run your old GPU on.

What are the system requirements of the smart TV application? It may be that a box like this https://www.amazon.com/Celeron-Proc...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=7W884K7BG0DZQBD6GX0Y (please note I am not recommending this product specifically, just pointing out a classification of product that might be applicable) could suit your needs. If you can press your main rig back into service easily, how much is it worth to be able to use the app?

I agree with ED and others you don't want to build another older 4c system. If you really do I suppose we can help with that, but as ED suggested you'll need to look up specific controlled benchmarks. The mass comparison sites just average data from a bunch of users in uncontrolled settings. User A didn't install the memory in dual channel mode, user B's CPU is thermal throttling, user C is overclocked on water, user D didn't enable XMP, etc. Instead look at benchmarks for Rocket League if that's really all you want to play. See what it can do with a GPU that is around the (normal) price range you would use, and see what CPU will support that. Or see what performance you want (1080p 60FPS, 120fps, etc) just pick a goal and see what it will take to reach that goal, then save up for it while waiting for prices to normalize.

As was already said, what you want to avoid is putting this together, then getting a new ish GPU, then finding you're CPU limited and having to upgrade everything else again. But on the other hand, if you really only want to play one game, at one level of detail, one resolution and one min framerate and don't have any desire to improve upon that or play other things etc, you should be able to find some hardware reviews and see exactly what you need / don't need to meet that goal. If you're not that certain of what you want to use the system for, then take others' advice and buy the best you can now.
 
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creativus

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Aug 12, 2017
It sounds like you want or need to build a new PC so your old PC can be turned into a sort of HTPC or something to run a streaming app. And also concern that your memory is not working well.

Other than the 4gb of memory, does the current PC satisfy your current needs? Maybe we should switch gears and evaluate if that could easily be remedied (could be a motherboard problem or a memory problem, trying each stick independently in each memory slot should clear up what the problem is). If you're perfectly comfortable gaming on your current system and you really just need a fresh 8GB kit of memory and to re-paste the CPU and blow dust out of the cooler to get another year out of it, then that's a better idea than trying to build a system out of old hardware to run your old GPU on.

What are the system requirements of the smart TV application? It may be that a box like this https://www.amazon.com/Celeron-Proc...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=7W884K7BG0DZQBD6GX0Y (please note I am not recommending this product specifically, just pointing out a classification of product that might be applicable) could suit your needs. If you can press your main rig back into service easily, how much is it worth to be able to use the app?

I agree with ED and others you don't want to build another older 4c system. If you really do I suppose we can help with that, but as ED suggested you'll need to look up specific controlled benchmarks. The mass comparison sites just average data from a bunch of users in uncontrolled settings. User A didn't install the memory in dual channel mode, user B's CPU is thermal throttling, user C is overclocked on water, user D didn't enable XMP, etc. Instead look at benchmarks for Rocket League if that's really all you want to play. See what it can do with a GPU that is around the (normal) price range you would use, and see what CPU will support that. Or see what performance you want (1080p 60FPS, 120fps, etc) just pick a goal and see what it will take to reach that goal, then save up for it while waiting for prices to normalize.

As was already said, what you want to avoid is putting this together, then getting a new ish GPU, then finding you're CPU limited and having to upgrade everything else again. But on the other hand, if you really only want to play one game, at one level of detail, one resolution and one min framerate and don't have any desire to improve upon that or play other things etc, you should be able to find some hardware reviews and see exactly what you need / don't need to meet that goal. If you're not that certain of what you want to use the system for, then take others' advice and buy the best you can now.

Thank you for your thorough response. It appears that one stick of my RAM has a problem but I don't know if there might be a problem with the motherboard or the PSU that is causing RAM sticks to go bad because I already changed a RAM stick 1-2 years ago, that time the computer service complained about the electricity quality in the city, said there was nothing I could do about it, and approved my idea of getting new RAM. I'm still testing it, it's a bit weird because when I first ran memtest with all 4 sticks seated it resulted with many errors but each stick and RAM seat passed the test afterwards individually.

I would probably be comfortable enough with this system even if it remains with 4GB of RAM for some time, it runs Rocket League without a problem, but new smart TVs aren't cheap either and we already have 4 TVs in the house so we don't want more and we wanted to make use of our access to that TV application that can also be accessed on a browser. We could also benefit from having another pc ready to surf the web and video call.

According to https://pc-builds.com/calculator/ an RX 560 or 1050 Ti would be a fine match for a Core i5-4590, I think that would be enough for me for many years. I will try to find something more recent though.
 

stompah

Deep Pain Senior Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2001
Don't rule out buying a used prebuilt. Good chance it will cost the same and will be easier to sell when you upgrade.

And buy a UPS
 
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creativus

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Aug 12, 2017
Sounds like you need a UPS to clean up your power, period.

Don't rule out buying a used prebuilt. Good chance it will cost the same and will be easier to sell when you upgrade.

And buy a UPS

I have a UPS, it's not high quality though. I'm using the pc connected to a surge protector power outlet connected to a rather cheap UPS. I tested that RAM stick that seemed to result with problems in usage with memtest whole night and it didn't give a single error. I wonder if it might be my motherboard that's the problem.
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
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Location
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Maybe. Since you started another thread on your troubleshooting, we'll keep this focused on your upgrade. :)
 
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creativus

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Maybe. Since you started another thread on your troubleshooting, we'll keep this focused on your upgrade. :)

I changed my mind somewhat about buying used parts because the approval/return policy about buying from individual sellers and not companies allows for only 2 days before making the decision to return the product, and I will need luck trying a CPU, CPU cooler, RAM, and motherboard together within 2 days and not finding fault during or later.

Looking at new CPUs I see conflicting comparisons, where shall I be looking at for reliable comparisons ?
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
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As mentiomed previously, look at cpu reviews. There's, us, techpowerup, anandtech...all solid. To be quite honest though, you're living in the minutia a bit. Can you please give us a max budget for those three components? We'll get you the best out there for your money. We could have had that hardware list days ago. :)