What is the best DUAL Mobo for OC'ing?

[SickBoy]

No thermistors here:


I get the same stuff from my Durons as SickBoy does.

Really... so I'm not alone.... I'm wondering if AMD's implementation of the on-die thermal diode is broken in the Morgans... because if it's true that regular TBirds will produce a 0 C signal.... then if the Duron didn't have the diode it should act the same. Hmmm.....

sb

 

[donny_paycheck]

I thought the same thing. I think AMD just screwed up the Morgan diodes because, OR, their logic is different from the Palominos so they can't be measured right with a 760MPX chipset. They're not officially supported for SMP use so AMD wouldn't care if the 760MPX read their temps incorrectly or not.

I wonder, does anybody with a KT333/400 board and a Morgan gets screwy temps too?

 

[shoarthing]

[from the Iwill MPX2 review at www.burningissues.net]

- no MSI goes over 150MHZ FSB

- no other MPX mobo gets anywhere near the Iwill's 'clockability

 

[cmcquistion]

The reviews I've read were on a pre-release board, or a version not available for sale. They acknowledged in the reviews that the board had stability problems. The actual boards released DO NOT have multiplier control, only FSB.

I bought one of those and it was an absolute piece of junk. I had to mod the northbridge, just to get it to run at all, and then, it was only stable for about 30 minutes at a time.

I read about 3 or 4 different reviews on that board. All of the reviewers acknowledged some problems. I think Iwill hoped to get people excited about that board (like me), but if you check around, you'll find that most everyone who has used it has had problems. What's more, Iwill's Tech Support is nonexistant, so the best you can hope for is help from user forums.

 

[shoarthing]

The burningissues review was on three [3] rev 1.3 boards purchased in the normal way.

The original question was not: 'What's the best dual mobo for newbies to overclock'

 

[cmcquistion]

Well, I'm still skeptical. I read burningissues' first review of that board, apparently. They now have a newer review and they have some high praises for the MPX2. "Lo, one good review does not a good motherboard make..."

I've been burned by the MPX2 already and I suggest that a person considering purchasing this board get some more first hand knowledge from people who have actually owned it.



Go to this link http://support.iwill.net/cgi-bin/eb...&Idle=10&Sort=0&Order=Descend&Page=0&Session=
Type in "mpx2" in the search field and "Motherboard problem discuss" in the category field. Read up on some of the problems people have had, then decide if you want to chance it...


P.S. I kinda resent your implication that I'm a newbie. I'm a computer systems administrator. I've been building computers and overclocking for years. I have worked with dozens of different motherboards over the years, so it's not like I just don't know what I'm doing. The MPX2 was a piece of junk. I wasn't the only one having problems with it, and the retailer I sent it back to acknowledged that they had a lot of returns on that board, and other Iwill boards. They told me they were going to stop stocking Iwill entirely because they had a greater than 50% return rate.

 

[shoarthing]

1: I co-wrote the burningissues review - there is & was only one review & we took the trouble to purchase 3 boards for testing - these were not pre-release & not fiddled with by Iwill in any underhand way.

2:

I bought one of those and it was an absolute piece of junk. I had to mod the northbridge, just to get it to run at all, and then, it was only stable for about 30 minutes at a time.

- experienced users know full well that most reported failure to get a specific mobo to run at all is simple PEBCAK; there is the odd dud mobo model; but these soon get known [Iwill's first crack at a DDR PIII dual being a classic dud].

The MPX2 has a comparatively decent northbridge heatsink - there's no need to touch it unless you're doing some serious 'clocking. It is a highly unlikely source of failure of a board to run at all.

I have first-hand knowledge of several MPX2's & they are straightforward & exceptionally stable - & a reliable correspondent has claimed to have run one at 185MHz FSB [briefly at 204, god wot] - details somewhere or other in the procooling forums.

 

[SickBoy]

shoarthing I've seen you over at the 2CPU forums and I trust your judgement but it seems odd to me that you seem to be the only one singing the praises of the MPX2 that I have seen.

I too have read all the reviews I can find, for every MPX board and have not heard anything outstanding about the MPX2 that would make me desire it over the K7D Master.

sb

 

[cmcquistion]

Just to specify. The motherboard I got was a Rev 1.4. I called a dozen resellers, when I was shopping for this motherboard 2 or 3 months ago. Several resellers, of course, couldn't or wouldn't reveal the Revision of the motherboard they had in stock, but of those that did, ALL had Rev 1.4. That's what I got and that's what others I have spoken with got, also. The only place I have heard of Rev. 1.3 boards is in the reviews. Every review I have read for the Iwill MPX2 has been a Rev 1.3 board.

I'm not saying that Iwill didn't sell Rev 1.3 boards, they certainly did sell some. Today, however, all you can get is Rev. 1.4, which has NO MULTIPLIER SUPPORT, period, bar none, never.

To me, this is the killer of what might be a great motherboard. I don't feel that it's very practical to run over 150-160 FSB on an MPX motherboard. I don't enjoy formatting and reinstalling Windows because I ran the PCI bus too far out of spec and trashed my hard drive.

On my rig, I have dual XP1600's @ 1800 MHz. I have a MSI K7D, so I run them at 12.5*144 or 12*150.

On the MPX2, I couldn't get near this performance, since the default multiplier is 10.5 and the best I could probably squeeze out the FSB is 160.

10.5*160=1680 MHz.

 

[shoarthing]

sickboy - Hi - wouldn't exactly describe my attitude as 'singing its praises' - the MPX2 is the best MPX-chipset 'clockers' board, that's all [which was the question].

Personally recommend the MSI for most users & beginners - it's cheap & well-supported & works well; but for balls-out 'clocking there's no comparison.

This is [or was] a 'clockers forum, so I took the question seriously.

The Asus, tho' in many ways a big disappointment, can be coaxed up to the mid-150's FSB by a skilled owner [jon of these forums being I believe a case in point] - no other MPX-chipset mobo can go over 150 without soldering.

You may recall a bunch of folks were talking sagely about the MP/MPX chipset having a 'ceiling' at 150MHz FSB - the MPX2 proves 'em wrong.

cmquisition - Hi - I have installed W2K, then run it 24/7, at 167MHz FSB on an MPX2. A correspondent claims to have installed then run W2K at 180+MHz FSB.

Agree that removing the MPX's in-BIOS multiplier adjust was mad; doesn't effect the sheer 'clocking ability or the 1MHz step FSB or the ide-range vcore or the VIO adjusts.

In my case, this is in a system with 2x dual-channel 64-bit RAID-hosts & 13x 10k rpm HD's - I wouldn't risk this little lot without having proven this [& other samples] of the board's stability.

The current/upcoming rev is apparently the 1.5 - will be trying a sample of this if there's any major difference to the 1.3: the 1.4 is essentially identical [a few components for the mutiplier-adjust removed].

IMHO key to the MPX2's stability is the use of EPS12V power - the extra 8x/12x pins over the normal ATX/ATX 2.03 makes a heck of a lot of difference when trying to stuff all that Wattage into the board.

 

[SickBoy]

Well, the reason that the 150 MHz FSB limit was discussed was that the K7D was the first board that could consistently reach that with good stepping chips.

as I remember, many got the FSB on the Asus past 150 before the revised K7D master was even available. That one lacks multiplier support though, as does the version of the MPX2 that most consumers have available to them. On an AMD overclocking board, multiplier support is a must. You'd get better overall results on a board with a full complement of o/c tweaks than one that's been neutered on one or more settings.

sb

 

[donny_paycheck]

the MPX2 is the best MPX-chipset 'clockers' board

Manipulating the multipliers is a critical step in overclocking. I would never by a motherboard without multiplier adjustments if I had the chance to buy one with them.

This is [or was] a 'clockers forum, so I took the question seriously.

This is an overclocking forum, which is why I'm emphatic about multiplier adjustments.

A board that can hit high FSB speeds is useless if the multiplier can't be dropped because virtually no chips will go that high with their stock multipliers.

 

[Brad_Collins]

I've got an mpx2, I've installed win2k at over 180, and I've got it to post at 204mhz fsb, with my TBred 2200+ running at 5.0x multi.

My board is a rev1.3, but I've been changing the multipliers on the cpus themselves because my tbreds will not reliably boot at multipliers above 12.5x.

The whole point of overclocking is to give you extra performance, which you will gain most with a higher fsb. I'd prefer 10x200 over 20x100 anyday, as I'm sure most of you would.

The mpx2 is much better for that reason, you can just crank up the fsb to whatever the hell you want, in 1mhz increments. In the K7D you only have a couple of steps up to 150mhz fsb before you need to increase the multi. Truely pathetic.

 

[donny_paycheck]

First of all, welcome to the forums. Let me congratulate you for having the patience, knowledge and skill to manipulate the multiplier via the processor bridges. That's something a vast, vast majority of us can't do.

There are a couple of problems with multiplier changes via the processor bridges, however:

• You need to know exactly what multiplier you need before changing them. If you're experimenting and you pick the wrong one, it's time to open the case, pop the HSFs off and perform some more CPU surgery. Want to go back to stock speeds or change the multiplier to experiment? You're in for a job. I know zero people who have pegged the multiplier they want right off the bat and left their chips at that for good.
• Each time you cut and connect bridges (especially cut) you run the risk of destroying your CPU. This became even more of a risk with AMD's switch to the organic PGA package.

With the K7D all you do is enter CMOS and hit a few keys. Bang. Multiplier changed. Think about it: If a single CPU motherboard was sold without integrated multiplier tweaks in BIOS, would it be sold as an "overclocking motherboard"? Of course not.

 

[shoarthing]

Hi - the questioner was thinking of a pair of '1600' CPU's [& indeed of fiddling with the bridges of a pair of 'XP's'] - these have a realistic chance of reaching 167FSB at their stock multiplier [as indeed my 1.2MP's easily do].

Point taken about Iwill's madness in losing the multiplier adjust: be that as it may, if you want 'clocking performance from a dual mobo right now, & have the usual skills of a mildly experienced 'clocker, an MPX2 is the way to go.

 

[SickBoy]

Hi - the questioner was thinking of a pair of '1600' CPU's [& indeed of fiddling with the bridges of a pair of 'XP's'] - these have a realistic chance of reaching 167FSB at their stock multiplier [as indeed my 1.2MP's easily do].

Point taken about Iwill's madness in losing the multiplier adjust: be that as it may, if you want 'clocking performance from a dual mobo right now, & have the usual skills of a mildly experienced 'clocker, an MPX2 is the way to go.

It's hard for me to swallow being forced to do bridge manipulation to use a certain motherboard. Unlocking for multiplier/SMP is one thing.... changing default multipliers is a completely different issue.

This is a real similar issue to when the K7S5A came out - it was spanking all the KT266 and AMD760 boards in memory performance but it didn't have the tweaks that most of us want, so a lot of people wound up toying with bridges. It doesn't take away any from the board's performance or how good of board it is, just that it admittedly was not as overclockable as some of the lower performing boards.

Pretty much all MPX boards are getting very, very similar performance in all aspects - the only features that differentiate the boards are overclocking tweaks and onboard goodies. The K7D still has the most complete package for the overclocker.

sb

 

[cmcquistion]

I saw someone's sig the other day that read:

"Arguing online is like being in the special olympics, even if you win, you're still retarded."

With that in mind, let's stop debating. We've all said the same things, several times. There are obviously two opinions here. One that thinks the MSI K7D Master is the best dual motherboard for overclocking. Another that thinks the Iwill MPX2 is the best dual motherboard for overclocking.

Both sides have good points. Both sides are right. The answer to the question is obviously a matter of opinion. Let's leave our opinions here and let the poster of the thread decide for himself.

We're all winners...

 

[shoarthing]

 

[SickBoy]

That Special Olympics thing is sad, but right.... lol...

I will say one last thing, and then I am done in this thread. I'm hesitant of opinions coming out of someone who sounds like a broken record pimping their own reviews... just doesn't seem right to me.

sb

 

[Flapjack]

As much as I respect shoarthing from my experiences at the 2CPU forums, I must disagree with him here. I've had the joy of playing with both the K7D, and the Iwill.

While the Iwill is not a bad board, it is still not shy of the K7D IMHO.

I would have a hard time buying a board that doesn't have multiplier adjustment.

Now if the Iwill had a PCI divisor higher than 4, it would be a little more respectable. But you'll just never find that sweet spot w/o multiplier adjustment.

Why Iwill took it out is beyond me....