which rad: thermo, black ice or swiftech?

[orthomofo]

building wc system, will likely mount in on the cosmos s 1100 by cooler master chasis.

read the sticky on monthly round up wc components, but i didn't get a good sense of how to stratify value differences among the rad list. i want to go with 120mm x 3 rad with either 3/8" or 1/2" tubing. my nb on the asus striker 2 extreme fits for 3/8", so was thinking about sticking with 3/8" all a round.

originally i was pricing out heater cores and trany coolers but the wifey is pushing for aesthetics.

I guess it is worth noting that i would like low maintenance, LOW NOISE setup, so will likely go with low cfm/ low flow fans x3. maybe an internal 120mm x 2 in addition to the external 120mm x 3 totalling 5 x 120mm rad with fans.

my goal for the system is to cool the cpu, NB, gtx 280HC x3, maybe ram cooling. Once i figure out how, oc'n everything. that being said...

right now 3 rads debating over:

- HW Labs Black Ice Xtreme III Triple 120mm Radiator - Black = ~$65

- ThermoChill PA120.3 3x120mm = ~$135 (crazy - twice the price)

- Swiftech MCR320-QP Quiet Power 3X120mm = ~$50

which would you go with?
any experience with??
satisfied vs dissatisfied???
notable problems with any of the above????
does anyone know why there is such a huge price difference in rads?
where to find honest reviews and test results?

 

[inkfx]

I've been extremely happy with my MCR320. It's cooled my quad at 3.7Ghz and my x1900XTX at a mild overclock just fine. For the price I paid, it couldn't get better. The ThermoChill rads will definitely perform better, though. Is it worth the price difference? That's up to you.

What do you plan on having in the loop?

 

[Spawn-Inc]

the thermochill is the best since it can pretty much do what the other ones can do but with low cfm fans, also has a nifty bleed screw at the opposite side of the barbs. but its draw back is price.

as far as i am concerned all black ice rads are crap. i would go with the swiftech rad and did. i have 6 high speed yates on there with wicked temps. on my oc'd q6600 3.5GHz. i idle at 27-29 and load at 37-39C.

 

[voigts]

The Black Ice GTX Radiators perform better than the Thermochill rads when using 1/2" Tubing, but only slightly

Black Ice
Thermochill
Using your hand to cool the CPU
Swiftech

Complete misinformation. 1/2" tubing has nothing whatsoever to do with anything.

The Black ice rads need more CFMs to perform well, but at higher cfms, they do perform well. The Thermochill rads are the best of the best at low speed fan/cfm performance with the lowest pressure drop. The MCR320 performs well at low cfms also, but is a bit more restrictive and doesn't perform quite as well as the thermochill. However, the MCR rads are good rads and the price premium for a Thermochill is nowhere near the performance difference. I bought 2 MCR320 rads for $100 shipped. If you want to go with lower cfm fans, the MCR320 is your most economical/ best performing option.

 

[corruption]

Voigts i was stating the tests were done with 1/2" tubing, not that if you use 1/2" tubing you'll have better temperatures =)

Tubing size has negligible effects on temperatures. I'll post a link to the thread where Cathar posted his results when using different tubing sizes as soon as I find it. Link

O.P. - I went with the BIP3 rather than the BIX3 because I wanted to use lower cfm fans. I'm happy with the BIP3 and I'm sure that you'd be happy with the BIX3. It works well cooling my q6600 and 8800gt with my fans at 7v, the BIX3 would most likely give you a degree or 2 lower temps.

Edit: Misread your post Oooze.....I thought you were saying that tubing size made a large temperature difference....no more late nights for me...

 

[baditude_df]

Complete misinformation. 1/2" tubing has nothing whatsoever to do with anything.

The Black ice rads need more CFMs to perform well, but at higher cfms, they do perform well. The Thermochill rads are the best of the best at low speed fan/cfm performance with the lowest pressure drop. The MCR320 performs well at low cfms also, but is a bit more restrictive and doesn't perform quite as well as the thermochill. However, the MCR rads are good rads and the price premium for a Thermochill is nowhere near the performance difference. I bought 2 MCR320 rads for $100 shipped. If you want to go with lower cfm fans, the MCR320 is your most economical/ best performing option.

Yes, I agree voights. And it would be nice if there weren't so many declaritive statements from people who clearly haven't tested things for them selves and documented it for us to see. Oooze, if you're going to make a statement like that you should reword it a little and say, I read an article or a review and this is what it said. Or at lease link to the source of the information you are posting. Then people won't jump all over you.
That being said, I think that the price to performance of the BlackIce rads pretty much matches. I have one and it performs alright. I can't wait to try a swiftech, thermochill or even one of those new feser's and see if what I've been missing will lower my temps even further and be worth the extra money.

 

[voigts]

Voigts i was stating the tests were done with 1/2" tubing, not that if you use 1/2" tubing you'll have better temperatures =)

My fault. I thought that was exactly what you were saying.

You are right in that most watercooling stuff, namely in Europe, is still 1/4". But given the performance hit vs using at least 3/8", even the European watercooling companies are offering it much more now. I am using 7/16"ID and apart from the hastle of getting it onto and off of 1/2" barbs, it routs well and isn't bulky.

I'll quote here (from XS)- "Testing has shown that with 70cfm fans moving at 1200rpm at less, the PA120.3 with 3 of such will match or beat the GTX480 with 4 of such. Move above 70cfm fans and the GTX will begin to pull ahead. Move below 70cfm, and the PA's lead grows"

That was done with a GTX480 vs the Thermochill PA120.3. So even though the rad is using 4x120mm fans, the Thermochill with 3x120mm fans out performs is at lower cfms.

However, another interesting quote, this time from Martinm210 on XS- "The PA120.2 is running a c/w value of about .0475, and the MCR is running about a c/w value of .05

So for a 200watt heat load the PA120.2 would produce a water temperature of about 9.5 degrees and the MCR220 about 10.0 degrees.

The MCR is a good radiator, not quite up to double thickness performances, but closer than you might think with low speed fans." This is with Nexus fans at 1000RM and 1.5GPM

I think he is working on doing some more recent testing on the MCR320 which i am looking forward at seeing. But what I read to date suggests that the MCR rads run very close to the PA rads in performance at lower cfms at just over 1/3 the cost. This is not to mention that the PA rads are much harder to come by as far as being in stock goes.

All three of the rads are good rads, but it you want the best low noise/price ratio, the MCR rads are at the top. If however you don't mind medium speed or greater, the GTX will perform as well as anything else. There is very little difference in performance between rads as cfms go over about the 80cfm mark.

 

[voigts]

My fault. I thought that was exactly what you were saying.

You are right in that most watercooling stuff, namely in Europe, is still 1/4". But given the performance hit vs using at least 3/8", even the European watercooling companies are offering it much more now. I am using 7/16"ID and apart from the hastle of getting it onto and off of 1/2" barbs, it routs well and isn't bulky.

I'll quote here (from XS)- "Testing has shown that with 70cfm fans moving at 1200rpm at less, the PA120.3 with 3 of such will match or beat the GTX480 with 4 of such. Move above 70cfm fans and the GTX will begin to pull ahead. Move below 70cfm, and the PA's lead grows"

That was done with a GTX480 vs the Thermochill PA120.3. So even though the rad is using 4x120mm fans, the Thermochill with 3x120mm fans out performs is at lower cfms.

However, another interesting quote, this time from Martinm210 on XS- "The PA120.2 is running a c/w value of about .0475, and the MCR is running about a c/w value of .05

So for a 200watt heat load the PA120.2 would produce a water temperature of about 9.5 degrees and the MCR220 about 10.0 degrees.

The MCR is a good radiator, not quite up to double thickness performances, but closer than you might think with low speed fans." This is with Nexus fans at 1000RM and 1.5GPM

I think he is working on doing some more recent testing on the MCR320 which i am looking forward at seeing. But what I read to date suggests that the MCR rads run very close to the PA rads in performance at lower cfms at just over 1/3 the cost. This is not to mention that the PA rads are much harder to come by as far as being in stock goes.

All three of the rads are good rads, but it you want the best low noise/price ratio, the MCR rads are at the top. If however you don't mind medium speed or greater, the GTX will perform as well as anything else. There is very little difference in performance between rads as cfms go over about the 80cfm mark.

EDIT- Martinm210's MCR320 testing results are up: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=192987

 

[Rickpatbrown]

Did you just quote yourself Voigts?

 

[Nebulous]

I personally like the BIX as I've had several and they've performed quite well. A set of panaflo fans in push/pull config and this combo did extremely well.

 

[Anubis_386]

I've just ordered me a Thermochill rad .. I thought I'd buy English

 

[baditude_df]

Sorry that i don't have any evidence, the vast majority of what i have learnt in watercooling has been from Ira-K and Kennymester on OCN, they are amazing watercoolers, so i kinda take what they tell me ^^

Do you have any links to their stuff? It's always good to share.

 

[baditude_df]

I personally like the BIX as I've had several and they've performed quite well. A set of panaflo fans in push/pull config and this combo did extremely well.

My first Rad(which is the Rad I am currently using) is a BIX2. I'd be lying if I said it was crap. The bottom line is, I get good temps, so it's definitely working well. Could I get better temps and lower noise with another, more expensive Rad? Probably, and I fully plan to test it out as soon as I decide on a new one. I currently have 4 YL meds on the BIX2

 

[voigts]

Did you just quote yourself Voigts?

Don't ask me how I managed that.

The BIX rads aren't junk or anything, nor is that what I'm trying to suggest, but if you are going to spend the money on a new rad, you may as well get your money's worth, especially when the prices are comparable between the two.

 

[Ninth]

Let's simplify this down, as that It's late, I'm tired, and was about to make this same thread, but would rather just make this one answer the question I think was stemming from both me and OP.

I'm getting the read that at low cfm's the order of performance is something like
120.3
BIX
MCR

But that on High CFM's, there is almost no negligable difference.

Is that correct?

Long and short, I'm not getting the 120.3. That thing is FAR too expensive for anything I would want, and I would rather have a slightly nosier case (which can be delt with) rather than being out another 60$ (which is harder to deal with as a student)

So under budget, it's between the MCR, BIX, and the unmentioned BIP (which seems to be between the two in pricing)


tl;dr, you can start here.

So correct my statement if I'm wrong, but all of the above would function about the same using, for example, yl high speeds?

 

[repilce]

The Black Ice GTX Radiators perform better than the Thermochill rads when using 1/2" Tubing, but only slightly

Black Ice
Thermochill
Using your hand to cool the CPU
Swiftech

Voigts i was stating the tests were done with 1/2" tubing, not that if you use 1/2" tubing you'll have better temperatures =)

Not to nit-pick but where's the word test(s) anywhere in that first quote?


Ninth:

I think it's
120.3
MCR
BIX

In terms of low cfm.

 

[Ninth]

AND I WAS CORRECT ABOUT HIGH CFM?

Wow. There are times when caps lock just makes things seem... see, I just can't ever see screaming in a conversation about fan speeds. ><

also, thanks.

 

[gsrcrxsi]

love my MCR320. thinking about getting some higher CFM fans though. might get some better temps than the 1200 rpm scithe s-flex's i have now

 

[Fx-53]

I had an Fx running on a BIPIII for over a year. Saw ambient temperature with 3 medium speed "best-buy" fans on it. Dunno how it stacks up next to the newer high-end rigs, but I would not call them crap.

 

[voigts]

Ninth:

I think it's
120.3
MCR
BIX

In terms of low cfm.

Correct. At higher cfms, the BIXIII is going to perform better than the other two due to its higher FPI count.