Jab-Tech's poor customer service....

I ordered about $210 worth of water-cooling equiptment from Jab-tech within a span of about 10 days. One of the blocks I ordered came witha big scratch where the block makes contact with the GPU. No biggie, I'll just lap it and it will be all better! Unfortunately, the same GPU block came with a missing part. Needless to say, I contacted Jab-tech in regards to this. I was quite surprised at their customer services' reply.I have only done two RMA's in my life, and Newegg credited my account with the shipping fees, while cooler-guys.com sent a prepaid call tag---so neither RMA needed shipping to be done by me.I enquired about Jab-techs RMA procedures, and was really surprised to see that the person made a comment that I interpreted as "Good for them now take your business elsewhere. Has anyone else had a rude response from these guys before? I was quite surprised, since I had no problem paying for the shipping back to them,but would avoid it it they were willing to pay.Anyway, below is the e-mail reply from the customer service department. Let me know if I came acroos in a way that would make someone feel like they need to be this rude.

HeatM1ser2k4 said:

From: Shawn
To: RMA - Jab-tech
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 3:40 PM
Subject: Re: Question about an RMA... (Order #23208)

I am quite surprised to hear such a condescending and ignorant comment from a vendor which survives based on incoming sales.I even mentioned my loyalty to you by stating that I would be more than happy to re-purchase the item from you, and not anyone else.I was simply stating my only experiences with the two RMA's that I have had to complete, and was not expecting such an unprofessional response. I'll complete my form and incur the shipping costs back, but your less than professional comments has definately shown me you only respond with a professional attitude to incoming sales, but not to sales dollars lost. I ordered from your company based on "word-of-mouth" advertising, so it seems appropriate that I share my negative experience via word-of -mouth.

Thank you kindly for your reply,
Shawn Butkus
RMA - Jab-tech <[email protected]> wrote:

If other companies pay to have you send back stuff good for them, that is not industry standard..

An abject perspective is if you buy something from BestBuy and later return it do they give you money for gas ?

----- Original Message -----
From: Shawn
To: RMA - Jab-tech.com
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: Question about an RMA... (Order #23208)

Please reply to my last message as soon as possible,as I am going to decide who to make my purchase from, and then order it before the end of the day so I dont have to wait too much longer to setup my water-cooled solution.

"RMA - Jab-tech.com" <[email protected]> wrote:

I will send you an RMA form today.

----- Original Message -----
From: Shawn
To: RMA - Jab-tech
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 11:03 PM
Subject: Re: Question about an RMA... (Order #23208)

OK,
Whats the next step?

RMA - Jab-tech <[email protected]> wrote:

I believe our policy is pretty much industry standard, you pay all return shipping costs and we will issue either refund back to card or company credit..



----- Original Message -----
From: Shawn
To: RMA - Jab-tech.com
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 2:51 PM
Subject: Re: Question about an RMA... (Order #23208)

Well, I have heard good things about your company, and thats why I decided to order from you.I intend to purchase the same GPU block or at least another one, and would like to make the purchase through you.So, do you issue a call tag, or does your return policy differ from the other vendors I am used to making my purchases from? Also, if the GPU block I buy is more expensive, can you just apply a credit and I can pay the difference?

Thank you kindly,

"RMA - Jab-tech.com" <[email protected]> wrote:

We only offer exchanged for same product or refund.

----- Original Message -----
From: Shawn
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 2:26 AM
Subject: Question about an RMA... (Order #23208)

I just started to setup my water cooling solution, and when I opened the box to the MCW55 I saw that the bottom of the GPU cooler had several scrape marks on it.This should not be this way.Also, one piece was missing from the bag of general accessories.I would like to return this, and I am willing to buy another GPU cooler--just not that manufacturer anymore.What can you do for me?


Shawn "HeatM1ser"

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Please let me know if I said anything in that e-mail that was offensive. Sometimes I dont realize it, but can say things that arent very tactful---but this time I thought that I promised my loyalty to their company and said very nice things about them in my replies, until I recieved the highlighted response

http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,70179-0.html?tw=wn_index_30

i think you took his comments a little too serious. i am confused as to the order of events, though. it seems like things were going fine. he said he would send the RMA, and then you asked for a quick reply (this is where i get lost), and then he replied about paying for shipping. am i following correctly? has anything been omitted?

I agree with Zip22 about the order of events, around the 12th to 13th, seems as though something is missing.

HeatM1ser2k4 said:

RMA - Jab-tech <[email protected]> wrote:

If other companies pay to have you send back stuff good for them, that is not industry standard..

An abject perspective is if you buy something from BestBuy and later return it do they give you money for gas ?

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I don't see how this fact, comment and analogy warrants your final response of;

HeatM1ser2k4 said:

From: Shawn
To: RMA - Jab-tech
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 3:40 PM
Subject: Re: Question about an RMA... (Order #23208)

I am quite surprised to hear such a condescending and ignorant comment from a vendor which survives based on incoming sales.I even mentioned my loyalty to you by stating that I would be more than happy to re-purchase the item from you, and not anyone else.I was simply stating my only experiences with the two RMA's that I have had to complete, and was not expecting such an unprofessional response. I'll complete my form and incur the shipping costs back, but your less than professional comments has definately shown me you only respond with a professional attitude to incoming sales, but not to sales dollars lost. I ordered from your company based on "word-of-mouth" advertising, so it seems appropriate that I share my negative experience via word-of -mouth.

Thank you kindly for your reply,
Shawn Butkus

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That response seemed quite harsh from what I read leading up to it.


It is true that as an industry, computer parts vendors do not pay return shipping. Once in a blue moon a company will pay return shipping but this is rather rare and should be regarded as an exception. Also, you cannot really compare these smaller companies to Newegg as they are in completely different leagues when it comes to working capital, profit and such which gives them much less flexibility.

No surprise really. Whoever runs that company wouldn't know good customer service if I put it in a steel canister and beat him repeatedly about the head with it. Leave them a bad review on resellerratings.com and file a report with the BBB.

Eventually all of this will catch up with him and maybe he won't be such a smarmy little punk or he'll go out of business.

wow from the two current posts regarding Jab-tech, their responses do not appear to fall in the category of "professional". Yeah, customers can get mad from time and talk alot of #$%* but the customer service/rma reps have to stay professional. Hmm, i always like jab-tech for their selection and always thought their service was decent, but i never had to return anything.

i see no reason to give them a negative review and especially not file with the BBB. what would he file? "he told me he wouldn't pay for me to ship a product back"?

like i said before, it really seems like we're missing a couple emails. was there one in there where you pryed further and asked for him to pay? thats really what it seems like.

Shawn, We happily offered you a no quibble return, exchange or refund. You did have the block for 14 days prior to contacting us, if it was missing parts and/or damaged contacting us within a day or so would have been much better, alot of things can happen to a water block in two weeks (now three weeks)

Here are the rest of the emails for those who want them: Read from bottom up:

Newegg processes hundreds of RMA's daily and they have a far better automated RMA system, that system didn't come cheap but probably saves them hundreds of man hours.. We get an average of 10 - 12 returns a week, we try not to make it hard for anyone to return products and accept products back that have been abused and misused. We do appreciate people vesting loyalty in us but we operate at the lower end of the pricing spectrum so somethings have to give... The product you purchased was sold to you at our exact cost so by selling it to you we made $0, now its being returned we are actually loosing money on it as we have to refund you and cannot any longer sell the product.

So really there is no 'good' resolution for either of us but we have tried to make the entire process as friendly and painless as possible.

If you contacted Swiftech who (if your accusations of manufacturing errors are correct) should be responsible for replacing the block and its quite likely they will send a call tag. However they will replace the block with a new one not refund you any money.

The item in question weighs 10oz and can be sent back via First class mail for about $2.50.
----- Original Message -----
From: Shawn
To: RMA - Jab-tech
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 3:59 PM
Subject: Re: Question about an RMA... (Order #23208)


r a store with the intentions of making a purchase and investing your hard-earned money at that store, do you want to heat "Good for them" as a response toa very valid question? If someone said that to me, I would make sure not to spend my money there, and to be as tenacious as I could with sharing my experiences so that I may protect other consumers from the same treatment I endured. I am grossly offended that I vested my loyalty to RMA an item and make any related purchases from your company in the future, only to be told "Good for them" when I ask a question about your RMA process, and share my only two RMA experiences in the past with you. I am so unfamiliar with RMA processes that I had no clue that I needed to fill a form out to complete an RMA with you because I never had to do that with Newegg or Cooolerguys.com ( they either did it for me, or I filled out online info).

Anyway, I hope that this has been an acceptable resolution for at least one of us.

Good day to you,
Shawn Butkus

RMA - Jab-tech <[email protected]> wrote:
I am at a loss what is condescending and ignorant about my reply, let alone unprofessional.. It was a real human reply to a question and if you take it out of the context by which it was meant I do apologize.

I should probably setup canned responses to questions but I feel that everyone should be able to get human responses rather than actual automated responses.
----- Original Message -----
From: Shawn
To: RMA - Jab-tech
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 3:40 PM
Subject: Re: Question about an RMA... (Order #23208)


I am quite surprised to hear such a condescending and ignorant comment from a vendor which survives based on incoming sales.I even mentioned my loyalty to you by stating that I would be more than happy to re-purchase the item from you, and not anyone else.I was simply stating my only experiences with the two RMA's that I have had to complete, and was not expecting such an unprofessional response. I'll complete my form and incur the shipping costs back, but your less than professional comments has definately shown me you only respond with a professional attitude to incoming sales, but not to sales dollars lost. I ordered from your company based on "word-of-mouth" advertising, so it seems appropriate that I share my negative experience via w-ord-of -mouth.

Thank you kindly for your reply,
Shawn Butkus

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jabtek said:

Shawn, We happily offered you a no quibble return, exchange or refund.

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I have no doubt about that, some people you just cannot appease no matter what you do. Jab-Tech despite this thread, scores high marks here.

PS, HeatM1ser2k4 If your wondering why the classified section disappeared, read post #1 and post #2 in this thread. Your SAP.com e-mail is not cutting the mustard so to speak.

jabtek said:

I should probably setup canned responses to questions but I feel that everyone should be able to get human responses rather than actual automated responses.

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i can appreciate that. anytime i've tried RMAing something to someone, i get the canned responses, and usually end up on the phone trying to get something done.

jabtek said:

Now uphold your part of the bargain, you have to eat your entire computer peice by peice (yours words not ours).

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made my day

Sam, I appreciate your comments, I would never request you put your neck on the chopping block for me or anything I do.. You have the best reputation and its not worth risking that for me.

Since the MCW55 was released we have sold approx 100 units and had zero returns (that I can remember) In the 3 weeks prior to the MCW60 coming available we sold 15 or so MCW55, of that 15 units 5 were returned.. 4 people came right out and stated they wanted company credit as they wanted the newer block.. Shawns was apparently defective.. All 5 people received RMAs the same day they requested without hassle or problem..

Well this whole claim appears to be a case of lies and a fraudulent rma.


so this block is scratched and missing parts?

well what about this thread? no mention of damage there
http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=442696

HeatM1ser2k4 said:

So, what your saying is I bought the wrong GPU block for a system using 1/2" ID tubing? This GPU block will not be as efficient with cooling because it restricts the flow more, and perhaps even have a negative impact on the entire loop I am guessing.Please offer suggestions on what I should do. I can still return the block, or, if it will not cause loss of efficiency I can keep it.I thought there was a problem when the tubing fit in the input/output holes very snuggly all by itself.

Looks like I'm in a bit of a pickle

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sadly this happens all the time, and the HONEST people who provide us with the best deals they can and have an HONEST business have to pay for others mistakes.

I want to thank you for posting in this thread, jabtek. I have never bought anything from your store before, but with looking here to see your response to this gripe about your companies service from this individual and also looking at resellerratings.com and seeing that you do respond to people's complaints, you have been added to my short list of vendors I will look to in the future for parts and equipment. I'm also glad that you let us hear " the rest of the story" as Paul Harvey used to say when I was a kid.

Silversinksam said:

I have no doubt about that, some people you just cannot appease no matter what you do. Jab-Tech despite this thread, scores high marks here.

PS, HeatM1ser2k4 If your wondering why the classified section disappeared, read post #1 and post #2 in this thread. Your SAP.com e-mail is not cutting the mustard so to speak.

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I apologize...I was just following instructions from one of your admins...see below please:
*EDIT*
what do you suggest I do now? I already gave all of my personal information,per his request!

rhino56 said:

Well this whole claim appears to be a case of lies and a fraudulent rma.


so this block is scratched and missing parts?

well what about this thread? no mention of damage there
http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=442696



sadly this happens all the time, and the HONEST people who provide us with the best deals they can and have an HONEST business have to pay for others mistakes.

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You are very incorrect, sir! My post that time was in regards to a completely different issue.I was not concerned about the scratch ATM, since the scratch wouldnt matter if pieces were missing.So, point taken, but irrelevant to the current situation.The Jab-tech website has drop-down menus for optional parts on most product pages I have seen.I read a review about this block where it said the barb adapters came with the product,and wasnt an additional purchase.Combine that review with the fact that the Jab-tech webpage did not have a drop-down menu with the option to purchase the additional parts, can you see why I thought they came with the product?Probably not, but how can I expect someone to understand when they seem opposed to reading the entire message. The customer is always right they say( my interpretation of that is that the customer is not always right, but should be treated with the same professionalism either way).Wouldnt you be upset if you went into a local retailer, and when you made mention of one of their competitors, you were recieved with "Good for them?" I would.Especially when I spent so much money with them, and have to read an unappreciative comment like that.Up until they made that comment, I feel as though I was very compassionate and understanding.I didnt think I became belligerent until after that comment.

I'll reply to the other posts later, but I am at work now and cannot take the time.

As far as submitting a complaint with the BBB, thats not going to happen.The resellerratings.com suggestion was very good,however. I would still reccomend jab-tech for parts, but will never purchase from them again. The shipping was quick,the purchase was easy, and my only gripe was that I was met with such a poor choice of words. Now, I understand that there are peple that favor certain vendors the way people prefer CPU manufacturers.I hope I havent offended anyone, or caused an admin to get upset because of this, especially if Jab-tech pays for advertising or has an agreement with the OC forums. My intent was to share my negative experience with those who share the same and protect me from making purchases from certain vendors.I could have returned the block, as the e-mail states, but I thought I was very flexible. I kept the block, but would have returned it and re-purchased another one from jab-tech, which can be read in the e-mails.I expressed my loyalty in that e-mail. Am I wrong for sharing this? I thought I was being diplomatic about it by posting the e-mail, rather than just hear-say.I'll reply to the other answers when I have the time, and appreciate all the feedback.There was correspondence after that e-mail, and I felt like the resonse after that was very professional.You cant undo things that have been done already, so the follow-up after the fact becomes irrelevent to me, despite a better effort by their customer service department.The damage was done already IMHO. On a different note, I will be submitting an excellent review in favor of the manufacturer, Swiftech shortly.Please take the time to read it when I have time to post it.

OK, have a moment to address more replies:

jabtek said:

Shawn, We happily offered you a no quibble return, exchange or refund. You did have the block for 14 days prior to contacting us, if it was missing parts and/or damaged contacting us within a day or so would have been much better, alot of things can happen to a water block in two weeks (now three weeks)

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Very true, and I posted the e-mails up until the comment that I did not appreciate to be fair an diplomatic about things.People can read that you had no problems accepting an RMA in the e-mail I posted.BTW, I did not know any parts were missing for two weeks because I did not have the pump to assemble the loop with.When I recieved the shipment, everything seemed to be in tact, but I didnt inspect part-for-part, just for damage. Didnt care about the scratch because it could be lapped out, but mentioned it because it was rather deep, and gave extra justification for my return(since its advertised how well the lapping job is from the manufacturer).

Other replies will come when I have more time.I appreciate all of the feedback, regardless of each individuals position on the matter, and definately intend to grant the same respect to each member who took the time to read and reply to me.

NoodleHead said:

wow from the two current posts regarding Jab-tech, their responses do not appear to fall in the category of "professional". Yeah, customers can get mad from time and talk alot of #$%* but the customer service/rma reps have to stay professional. Hmm, i always like jab-tech for their selection and always thought their service was decent, but i never had to return anything.

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Kilyin said:

No surprise really. Whoever runs that company wouldn't know good customer service if I put it in a steel canister and beat him repeatedly about the head with it. Leave them a bad review on resellerratings.com and file a report with the BBB.

Eventually all of this will catch up with him and maybe he won't be such a smarmy little punk or he'll go out of business.

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Thank you both for your support in this matter.The resellerratings idea is a good one, but I think contacting the BBB is a little over the top.It was only the comment that offended me. Besides the comment, I would highly reccommend them as a vendor,and already had just days before this correspondence.I like to give credit where its due, but wont hesitate to also share my bad experiences. If I onlty share the good experiences, then I am not being completely honest. I feel the need to look out for the consumer, and not the company. We, as consumers, need to stick together to rotect each other.So, even though I learned a lesson from this,and refuse to purchase from Jab-tech again( or at least until I am able to read many positive posts about them from this point on.So, this whole post was all about protecting other consumers, and not trying to bad-mouth a company without jsutification, which is why a website like www.resellerratings.com is such a valuable resource--it provides customer feedback which influences companies to,hopefully, improve in areas where they lack.

More replies to your responses to come when I have more time.

HeatM1ser2k4 said:

I apologize...I was just following instructions from one of your admins...see below please:
what do you suggest I do now? I already gave all of my personal information,per his request!

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I see he said perhaps we can see what we can do, I do not see that he approved an exception, In fact, we have an exception list and your not on it.

So I suggest call your ISP and get another e-mail, or show me Lutawicasa's reply saying you are good to go, you did not prove anything with the info you provided.

Silversinksam said:

I see he said perhaps we can see what we can do, I do not see that he approved an exception, In fact, we have an exception list and your not on it.

So I suggest call your ISP and get another e-mail, or show me Lutawicasa's reply saying you are good to go, you did not prove anything with the info you provided.

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He did not reply after I sent my personal date (name, address, HOME
phone).I just sent him an e-mail because I fear that I have upset you by making a negative post about Jab-tech, and I certainly dont want to make an admin mad at me.I dont belive AOL allows more than 7 screen names, but I may be wrong since its my parents ISP,and not mine.I'll look further into it when I get home tonight afrom college around 11pm EST. Hopefully you can make an exception so I can view the classifieds, but if not, I can forego access to the classified for a few months until I am able to pay for my own ISP.However, I am hopeful that a quick resolution can be forged to accomodate both parties.

PS: I cannot see the little icons to send PM's to other members,is that as a result of the e-mail problem?

HeatM1ser2k4 said:

PS: I cannot see the little icons to send PM's to other members,is that as a result of the e-mail problem?

Click to expand...

Click on the person that you want to PM's name in the post and their info will open and give you a PM link if they have PM's enabled.

HeatM1ser2k4 said:

Wouldnt you be upset if you went into a local retailer, and when you made mention of one of their competitors, you were recieved with "Good for them?" I would.Especially when I spent so much money with them, and have to read an unappreciative comment like that.Up until they made that comment, I feel as though I was very compassionate and understanding.I didnt think I became belligerent until after that comment.

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I'm curious, what is so offensive, unappreciative and unprofessional about this statement, "Good for them"?

HeatM1ser2k4 said:

Wouldnt you be upset if you went into a local retailer, and when you made mention of one of their competitors, you were recieved with "Good for them?" I would.Especially when I spent so much money with them, and have to read an unappreciative comment like that.Up until they made that comment, I feel as though I was very compassionate and understanding.I didnt think I became belligerent until after that comment.

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that scenario has happened to me MANY times. if you follow any pricematch deals, you get turned down ALL THE TIME with a "good for them". In those cases, the stores would probably still be making money, even if they did pricematch the internet or the other store.

HeatM1ser2k4 said:

From: Shawn
To: RMA - Jab-tech.com
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: Question about an RMA... (Order #23208)

Please reply to my last message as soon as possible,as I am going to decide who to make my purchase from, and then order it before the end of the day so I dont have to wait too much longer to setup my water-cooled solution.

RMA - Jab-tech <[email protected]> wrote:

If other companies pay to have you send back stuff good for them, that is not industry standard..

An abject perspective is if you buy something from BestBuy and later return it do they give you money for gas ?

Click to expand...

that just doesn't make sense.

also, the industry standard is definitely not to pay your return shipping. LARGE companies will often refund you the cost if you bug them but expecting that is silly.

Believe it or not I do not feel comfortable commenting on other companies business habits, when pushed into a corner (like this case I believe) I try to leave it as open ended as possible without directly commenting on the company positively or negatively

If other companies pay to have you send back stuff good for them

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I do not see anything offensive in the comment, if you honestly think I was out to offend you in anyway I already apologized, it is however simply not true..

I rarely write emails with any emotion, I write 100+ emails daily and none have intent to cause offence.

As for customer loyalty, well thats alot to ask anyone to do, my dog is loyal, My wife is loyal (I think) everyone elses pledges of loyalty translate into.

I might buy from you in the future if I cannot find a cheaper price elsewhere

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If anyone finds that offensive please excuse me, I am a cynical old blah blah blah