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can I sue?

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Softgod

Disabled
Joined
Oct 11, 2002
First there is this artical:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/3104281.stm


Now lets say that I have an FTP, I do not now but I am going to set one up so I can get to my legally owned software from anywhere, like Paint Shop Pro or Photoshop.

Now, if I find someone breaking into my FTP and I do not give them the right to get in or I do not give out the info for people to steal the stuff can I sue them for breaking into my computer?
 
Softgod said:
Now lets say that I have an FTP, I do not now but I am going to set one up so I can get to my legally owned software from anywhere, like Paint Shop Pro or Photoshop.

Now, if I find someone breaking into my FTP and I do not give them the right to get in or I do not give out the info for people to steal the stuff can I sue them for breaking into my computer?

Possibly, but you might have to show you put this in an FTP server with some security. If you put a password on accessing it you would have a strong case for being able to sue these groups for hacking.
 
That is really what they are, a bunch of hackers. I have a hardware firewall built into my Linksys router and I also run Norton Internet Security and I get people all the time that are getting past the hardware firewall and the Norton tells me there IP address and where they are located. Should I be turning these over to the ISPs that they are on? Norton gives me that info too.
 
Softgod said:
That is really what they are, a bunch of hackers. I have a hardware firewall built into my Linksys router and I also run Norton Internet Security and I get people all the time that are getting past the hardware firewall and the Norton tells me there IP address and where they are located. Should I be turning these over to the ISPs that they are on? Norton gives me that info too.

What harm will come to you if you do? These malicious people are obviously violating their EULA by attempting to break into your computer, so by all means report the little *******s. It's always amusing getting someone shut off from their ISP a majority of the time if you were indeed shut off for hacking the chances another high speed isp will allow you internet service is slim to none.
 
I am not sure how to do it. I guess that I should call the ISP and see what I should do. I get them all the time and Norton pops up and says that it stopped them and it gives there info and where they are from. You guys should install this software and see what is coming your way. I get guys from all over the world.
 
sounds like you need to adjust the settings on your router. Do you have the Allow WAN requests turned off. This will ignore requests from just about everyone outside your network.

Upgrade to the latest firmware too.

T
 
You'd also have to prove that they caused you damage.

If someone broke into your FTP site and stole copies of software that you didn't make, essentially they haven't done any harm to you.

If however, they broke in and stole your visa number, then yes, sue away.
 
Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer and this isn't to be taken and/or assumed as any advice from one. Only a lawyer can give proper legal advice and information.

Be warned, there is something called entrapment defense laws. It has been used many times in hackers defenses. Do not think you can attract hackers in and sue them like some vigilanty/police detective, even the police CAN NOT get around the entrapment laws. Basically if you intentionally allow and encourage them to enter and you sue them for that they can pled not guilty and say entrapment. That is why you need to have a warning displayed to every user loging in to your system that it isn't for unauthorized users and other stuff, check a lawyer and/or server admin for the exact message you need. Also don't enable things just to make the system more crackable.

I am writing this in red so you read it. I am very serious, do not think you can let them hack you, then you sue them for damages.
 
bulk88 said:
Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer and this isn't to be taken and/or assumed as any advice from one. Only a lawyer can give proper legal advice and information.

Be warned, there is something called entrapment defense laws. It has been used many times in hackers defenses. Do not think you can attract hackers in and sue them like some vigilanty/police detective, even the police CAN NOT get around the entrapment laws. Basically if you intentionally allow and encourage them to enter and you sue them for that they can pled not guilty and say entrapment. That is why you need to have a warning displayed to every user loging in to your system that it isn't for unauthorized users and other stuff, check a lawyer and/or server admin for the exact message you need. Also don't enable things just to make the system more crackable.

I am writing this in red so you read it. I am very serious, do not think you can let them hack you, then you sue them for damages.

Bulk,
I had read an article on jujst that fact. they are startng to say the honeypots on networks are entrapment. If you are going to run a honeypot it should be for learning purposes only.

If you are putting up an FTP site it should be as strong as possible. If someone puts up an FTP site just to hope that they get hacked and they can sue for money are just as bad as the people that hop on busses when they see an accident so they can sue the city.
 
I suggest putting up the warnings etc. So, in the event that they do something harmful, you can get around the entrapment bs. There are a lot of jerks that cause damage, but many of them do it just for the experience, and information they collect on security, etc.
 
I am not a lawyer, just interested in the laws that effect me. Even a lawyer probably couldn't tell you with certainty what the outcome would be, due to the complexity of law. So, take this post with a grain of salt. Also, the comments I make in the following post are in reference to the USA. I do not know enough about other countries laws to make any comments.

Chances are that most of those intrusions that Norton is detecting are nothing but scans. There are many people who will scan other computers for open ports. Some do it for fun, some for malicious purposes. Scanning is technically illegal, but little would come of it if you reported it. A customer means money to an isp. If they haven't done anything damaging it's unlikely that they would drop him/her.

As for entrapment and honeypots, there really is no such thing as civil entrapment. Entrapment is a term used for criminal cases, and it only applies to agents of the government. A citizen working on his or her own can "entrap" you and the government can still use any evidence from this against you in a criminal case. Now, reports may have been using the term entrapment, but I think that it is an incorrect and misleading use of the term. Even given that, just having a honeypot is not "entrapment" per se. You would have to entice, force, or otherwise get them to do something they did not have the intent to do. The only way I could see this happening is if you sent an email that said, "Come to my honeypot and see if you can hack it." In this case, you made an invitation. Thus, when somebody comes and does just what you invited them to do, no law (criminal or civil) has been broken. If no law is broken then there can be no entrapment. Now, if you sent that email about somebody else's server, then you would be responsible. However, even with you being responsible, that wouldn't necessarily negate the hackers responsibility. That being said, judges in civil cases have great lattitude. They might decide to infer (or if there is evidence) that your intent in setting up this server was to attract these types of people and that you did not take the proper security measures, they may throw it out.

As for the idea of suing the music industry for hacking into your computer, don't count on it. First, you would have to show sufficient damages. If they just scanned, then there is nothing to sue about. You could try to get the police to go after them on criminal charges, yeah right. Another thing to consider is that when there is not specific case law to support either way, often judges will look to what is happening on Capitol Hill. Currently there is a bill in Congress that will specifically allow the entertainment industry to do just this. Not only that, but if this bill is passed, it will remove any liability they might have for deleting the wrong files, damages they may cause to the system, etc.... Essentially, this bill will allow them to use hacking, virii, trojans, and whatever else they can think of to get into your computer. It is fairly broad in its scope (it is not specific at all about what technologies it will allow content copyright holders to use), and if it does pass it may be reigned in on appeal because of this. However, the fact that this bill is in Congress would likely mean that an attempt by you to sue would go down in flames (especially if you were serving up copyrighted materials).
 
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