Air Conditioned Liquid Cooled Computer

[ivanlabrie]

I'm speaking not from experience but from collective knowledge, I've seen this done before.
You need to do specific calculations for the peltier to work, it's a really crappy way of cooling processors since it's very ineffective. The hot side will get more hot than the cold side will get cold so to speak.
Also, trying to cool air or something like that is non-sense, just saying.
The ONLY viable way to use a peltier is direct to the cpu's ihs, but for that to work you need a peltier rated at 2x the cpu's tdp or more, AND water cooling to cool the hot side.

 

[DAKz]

The folks over at coolermaster might disagree with you, seems they use the peltier in the v10, Also while I maybe new to these boards I have been messing with computers since 1976, thanks to the military and at a professional level.
I understand all that you say, and I have studied on the drawbacks of peltiers as well as the benefits of them. And to be honest if it was easy then HP would be making them But as I indicated, for the $5 it will cost me, most people I know blow that in a starbucks every day, so its worth the try, if nothing else well worth $5 for the education gained from it.
I still contend that yes if you run it at 12vdc you will have issues not only with cooling but with supplying that much power to the peltier, however, I also believe that a drop in voltage, either the 3vdc leg or a 5vdc leg will reduce the amount of cool so that your not trying to freeze the cpu, thats for the sub zero crowd, but to simply drop the temp a little, this also will keep the hot side from getting quite as hot, thus easier to cool, and should be a reasonable effort for anything above a stock cooler.
I saw a place that sells a camping refrigerator that uses a peltier and pretty much a stock AMD cooler on the hot side and then of course the cooling fins on the other for the camping refer. Now I am sure that the power requirements for a camping refrig is less then the average computer power supply, and they seem to be able to run a cabinet at sub ambient temps, after all that is what a refrigerator does.
But more then a power issue, and more then a cooling issue which to my thinking is really minor considering I am not looking to run the peltier at its upper limit, is the condensation issue. That alone is my concern at this point. But thanks for your advice and encouragement.

 

[awktane]

The peltier in the v10 is borderline gimmick. It makes very little difference as it is a tiny one. I pulled it apart thinking I'd be awesome and watercool the hot side for fun. Wasted time as it was more efficient to just put the block on the processor itself. I've never played with a larger one. I will also reiterate what a few people have said - beware of subzero and condensation and/or water loop splooge explosions.

Now having said all of that it is entirely possible and I have seen it done. Good luck and keep us updated.

 

[DAKz]

Thanks for the reply, I am not looking for anything near zero, so I will watch the cold side very close for temp and condensation, and I am leaning more towards the block on the cpu, at least at this stage of the thought process, which while testing I will use one of the old desktops we have laying around the shop, so if it does go bad there is no loss except for maybe the $5 peltier.

 

[sobe]

What about just sandwiching the peltier with a solid copper block?

Something like one of these, http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?id=155&step=2&top_cat=87

 

[ivanlabrie]

DAKz, you're being stubborn mate, you're disregarding the cpu's active heat load and how it would impact the peltier's efficiency and cooling power.

The mini fridge with a peltier works since it's cooling stuff that's not hot to begin with!
That's why they get away with a small heatsink for the hot side, and stuff actually gets cooler. It's no big feat!

To do what you want to do, you would need some serious peltier horsepower and a proper wc setup...to cool your fx 6300 at or below ambient temps at load, that is.
Cooling a pentium m or something older and low power isn't hard, and an air cooled peltier should suffice, but what's the point in that?

EDIT: Again, look at peltier cooling done the way it's meant to be...

http://www.overclock.net/t/1406591/tec-block-on-4770k

 

[DAKz]

No not being stuborn, just able to think outside the box, or fridge, and since frozencpu offers a variety of peltier coolers, and just doing a little more research as found these items to throw into the mix.

Temperature Controller of Thermoelectric Cooler Peltier

Along with 168W Peltier Thermoelectric Cooler - TEC - US QUALITY

And as you can see;
"Model CP1-12710
40mm x 40mm x 3.3mm
Operates from 0-16 volts DC and 0-10.5 amps
Operates from -60 deg C to +180 deg C controlled by the device above,
Each device is fully inspected and tested
Fitted with 6-inch insulated leads
Perimeter sealed for moisture protection

Perfect for: Cooling your CPU, video card, NANO Reef, Laser, laser diode, CCD camera, picnic cooler, beverage cooler, even generating electricity. The uses are unlimited!
This is a brand new factory fresh device."

So tell me whats so difficult about it? I won't draw the power that has been rumored to draw, it can be controled so that the temp can be set, (peltier cut off and on) and with the temp controled then the hot side stays cooler since your not maxing the thing out. So how is that so insane?
Hehehehe I haven't even gotten to the stacking peliters yet to make one cool the other reducing the heat of the assembly to a more manageable level...

Another good guide for using peltiers is found at http://www.heatsink-guide.com/peltier.htm

 

[DAKz]

And another one....this ione cost more but already has the copper plates on it;
cubite TED Description:

Thermoelectric Cooling Module
Ultra thin, compact and light
Eco-friendly, no refrigerating fluid is used
Noiseless, reliable and maintenance-friendly
Cooling or heating by changing current direction
Direct Soldering attachment of heat transfer fins without TIM
Max. Current: 7A
Max. Temperature Difference: 65.1 deg C
Max. Voltage: 15.2V
Max. Refrigerating Power: 65.1W
Size (L x W): 40 x 40 mm
Thickness: 2.14mm
Weight: 11g

 

[ivanlabrie]

Well, yeah you are stubborn

"Max. Refrigerating Power: 65.1W"
That's at 15v...7 ampers. That number has to be 2x the tdp of the chip you are going to cool, to see the results that you want.
And for that to work and the peltier to survive and not melt your cpu, you need to be able to cool the hot side, which will be twice as hot + say 50% more.
65w + peltier inefficiency say 25w + heat load 95w= peltier melts, heat goes back to your cpu after it dies. (cold side turns into hot).

 

[DAKz]

ok not sure where this went confussing maybe at the "old desktop" part, till I get this setup right this is going on maybe a dual core processor, with a MAX wattage of 17 watts, so a max refrigerating power of 65.1 w should cover it pretty well.
"you need to be able to cool the hot side, which will be twice as hot + say 50% more." again with a 17 watt cpu still don't see an issue to cool this could be done with a table fan for 17 watts, or has you indicated 17 plus 50% more so a grand total of like 25 watts, hope it don't go nuclear on me. But thanks for your advice and encouragement.

 

[ivanlabrie]

Sorry, I thought you were gonna try this on your main rig...but yeah, it's not an ideal solution. You're gonna have to watch it for condensation at 12v, lower than that, probably not...But I'd still use some conformal or artist's eraser around the socket area to seal that area up. Just in case...

 

[DAKz]

No not with that small a peltier, this is strictly for testing and learning, my plan right now is to use it on a simple small processor, running maybe 5vdc, and with a Coolermaster 212 on the hot side to handle heat, goal is to run it right above the dew point to avoid condensation, however I have read several places about either vaseline or dielectric gel around the socket then a "hair dryer" to set it. this is just to test some different ideas on the concept, a long long way from seeing my main rig.

 

[Knufire]

It's fine for small heat loads...something 24/7 is much harder.

Just an FYI, generally the easiest way to get really cold temps is a single stage phase change unit.

 

[Conumdrum]

Have fun. Time to do it.

 

[DAKz]

I agree, and started going through some old desktops at the shop tonight, actually trying to find a AMD processor with an unlockable core, but have a couple old intel units set aside, and a couple 13 amp power supplies.

 

[RnRollie]

somehow, it feels like you are trying to build this
http://www.tetech.com/Liquid-Coolers/LC-200.html

also, as for using the 3 or 5 volt line... yeah, if they can handle the Amps

 

[DAKz]

somehow, it feels like you are trying to build this
http://www.tetech.com/Liquid-Coolers/LC-200.html

also, as for using the 3 or 5 volt line... yeah, if they can handle the Amps

will be similar to that except using a Coolermaster 212 to handle the hot side, the 5v leg on the power supply is rated at 13 amps so should be plenty

 

[ivanlabrie]

If not just get a dedicated psu...

 

[bamato]

I feel like the watercooler idea was actually a really good one. Even a small 1/10th or 1/16 HP aquarium chiller would work too, and be far less complicated (gears turning in head).

 

[ivanlabrie]

Yeah, single stage or water chiller is where it's at.