FEATURED AMD ZEN Discussion (Previous Rumor Thread)

[M@rk]

Are you referring to the CPU or the die size?

ATM has a point if you look here you'll see the actual 6700K die is a fraction of the size of the CPU

I meant the physical size of the whole thing not just die. Sorry for being cofusive.

 

[wingman99]

I meant the physical size of the whole thing not just die. Sorry for being cofusive.

That is called the CPU package.

 

[M@rk]

That is called the CPU package.

Okay, Now i know. Thanks

 

[Johan45]

This has been the buzz for the last few days
AMD Zen Release Date Coincides With CES 2017 While X370 AM4 Motherboards Will Ship in December https://www.mobipicker.com/amd-zen-...017-x370-am4-motherboards-will-ship-december/

 

[Woomack]

This thread has a year and we still aren't sure when Zen will be released. Premiere doesn't mean it will be available in stores. There are also only rumours about X370 and some cheaper CPUs. I'm just not sure what to think about it. It looks like constant delays and we can receive already "old chip". Before we get good motherboards and all early issues will be solved then Intel will release next generation. I don't want to see that but exactly the same is with graphics cards.

 

[Alaric]

This thread has a year and we still aren't sure when Zen will be released. Premiere doesn't mean it will be available in stores. There are also only rumours about X370 and some cheaper CPUs. I'm just not sure what to think about it. It looks like constant delays and we can receive already "old chip". Before we get good motherboards and all early issues will be solved then Intel will release next generation. I don't want to see that but exactly the same is with graphics cards.

This does seem to be turning in to another perfect opportunity for AMD to deliver too little, too late. But, if CPU speeds have reached something of a plateau for the next couple years, and Zen is actually competitive, they could probably still turn this in to a win.

 

[deathman20]

This does seem to be turning in to another perfect opportunity for AMD to deliver too little, too late. But, if CPU speeds have reached something of a plateau for the next couple years, and Zen is actually competitive, they could probably still turn this in to a win.

Well hopefully for everyone it will prove to be a win. Can't hurt to have great competition in the market. Just sad lately AMD has been say oh this will be great, wonderful, powerful, etc... then 12-18 months later it hits the market and its already 6-12 months late and slower in comparison to what is already out today. With something else that is even faster is right around the corner. Been hoping for AMD to make a come back, but sadly been loosing confidence in them for some time now. The 480 GPU was a pleasant to see for price/performance ratio though so there is hope.

 

[Johan45]

ZEN is going to pack security features way ahead of Intel's current and next gen CPUs

All of this magic will happen thanks to a “Security Co-Processor” that AMD has included inside of the Zen chip. Before we get into any explicit details – let me explain what all the fuss is about. I will explain by giving the example of this very publication. WCCFTech is hosted on a VPS based platform that scales according to the traffic we get – in other words, its hosted on the cloud. This means we don’t have to pay for server resourced we aren’t using and aren’t left stranded when traffic spikes. When we say its hosted on the cloud, what is actually happening is an instance of a virtualized server running on a physical server. This virtualized server can scale up or down (depending on the limits of the physical server) dynamically according to the demand of the client and is hosted primarily in the RAM.

 

[mackerel]

Part of that sounds like features that has been around since Haswell or maybe earlier. The new features... as an end user, those features has less than zero interest to me. That is, if it is included, I would be getting something I do not need or want. It looks small enough not to be a significant burden at least. Maybe those running certain server use cases will find some use for it but I don't see it as that radical. I'd worry more about competing against Intel in regular performance unless they're targeting niches.

 

[Dolk]

Yeah there is something like that on Intel already. I think there was a post about it not too long ago.

Also that slide refers to SOC (and most likely server). Desktop may have something but its probably similar to the secure boot that has been around for ages.

 

[FlyingTexan]

Anyone with decent knowledge know if Zen could actually be in the new macbook pros? Wouldn't seem a stretch that they could do an initial exclusive launch. Would increase market share and basically be a reverse of the apple/att deal eons ago. I've been reading it but sounds like one blogger ripping off the thoughts of another blogger

 

[Johan45]

Zen will also contain hardware SHA – which means it’s going to offer significant performance improvement over previous iterations of AMD architectures and even Intel offerings! As far as we know, hardware based SHA will not be present in Intel offerings till Cannonlake arrives and we have already listed the major disadvantage of SGX – it cannot be virtualized. So at the time of launch, Zen processors will be the only competitive x86 chips around rocking hardware based SHA (and the accelerated performance that comes with it) as well as the security co processor powered SME/SEV security features. It remains to be seen when and if Intel will offer a competing solution to SEV.

Yes way more useful in the server avenue. If AMD can start to pick up server sales again that would mean higher revenue and a better chance of them staying around

 

[EarthDog]

They arent going anywhere... but that said, I thought they held a lot more of the server market several years ago with their Opterons? If that was true, all they brought to the table was second place in a two man race on the desktop side of things.

EDIT: Looks like they peaked at 26% or so - http://www.fool.com/investing/2016/05/25/can-amd-make-a-comeback-in-the-data-center.aspx

 

[OC4FUN/OC4LIFE]

Question about ZEN.

Reducing TDP down to 65w, when the previous generation (A8, A10) on higher TDP had issues with APM reducing CPU frequency when iGPU under full load.

Won't this be even worse or not change with the new gen?
I know they say it's is more efficient & all that marketing blah-blah., but I am worried switching to an A12, realising the iGPU is powerful, but the CPU doesn't handle 2017 AAA titles.
Perfect example Total War: Warhammer on an APU.
Now I know, best thing is to get a dedicated GPU, not everyone has or will have the budget for super-rigs (which is the whole point of an APU, IMO and I think AMD's goal too).

Any thoughts on this?
Unless I'm completely wrong and AMD Zen APU's are gonna be the next best thing, a breakthough - along with tickets to space & spacemiles?

 

[EarthDog]

It depends on what they did to mitigate the issue. Less power doesn't mean it will happen again, but I can see why one would connect the two for sure.

APU isn't great for a lot of those CPU bound titles is the real issue IMO.

Zen is going to be a great CPU for AMD, I am sure of it... so long as its performance lands somewhere around Haswell or greater.

 

[Johan45]

Question about ZEN.

Reducing TDP down to 65w, when the previous generation (A8, A10) on higher TDP had issues with APM reducing CPU frequency when iGPU under full load.

Won't this be even worse or not change with the new gen?
I know they say it's is more efficient & all that marketing blah-blah., but I am worried switching to an A12, realising the iGPU is powerful, but the CPU doesn't handle 2017 AAA titles.
Perfect example Total War: Warhammer on an APU.
Now I know, best thing is to get a dedicated GPU, not everyone has or will have the budget for super-rigs (which is the whole point of an APU, IMO and I think AMD's goal too).

Any thoughts on this?
Unless I'm completely wrong and AMD Zen APU's are gonna be the next best thing, a breakthough - along with tickets to space & spacemiles?

It depends on what they did to mitigate the issue. Less power doesn't mean it will happen again, but I can see why one would connect the two for sure.

APU isn't great for a lot of those CPU bound titles is the real issue IMO.

Zen is going to be a great CPU for AMD, I am sure of it... so long as its performance lands somewhere around Haswell or greater.

I agree with E_D here, but the sme will hold true I imagine. Many of the issues with bulldozer based CPUs was the motherboard. The CPU is what it is and the manufacturers of the mobos tended to chintz out on things and overestimate their abilities.
Yes the new ZEN is supposed to be a lower powered CPU with iGPU. Just because it's low powered doesn't mean it can't perform within it's specs.

 

[OC4FUN/OC4LIFE]

I see your point, definitely a step in the right direction for AMD, keeps Intel pushing the bar higher.
And I must say, moving to DDR4, from seeing how much a slight increase in DDR3 RAM frequency can boost the iGPU, get's me wondering of the potential it could have.

Whether or not they deliver, remains to be seen, proven, benchmarked & overclocked.

(I personally will probably wait for a variant of AMDMSRTweaker for ZEN, if such a thing will ever come to fruition)
Or wait for Overclocker's benchmarking tests on this.

Does anyone have any info on the limitations of the Zen architecture, in relation to DDR4 & the frequency limits of this next-gen RAM having not yet been reached?

Dreaming of an APU with iGPU that supports DDR4 at 4000mhz...dreaming...

EDIT: @Johan if the same were to hold true, then probably worth waiting for the hype to pass & really, competent motherboards to come out.
I get what you mean by, '...Just because it's low powered doesn't mean it can't perform within it's specs'.
+1

 

[EarthDog]

Does anyone have any info on the limitations of the Zen architecture, in relation to DDR4 & the frequency limits of this next-gen RAM having not yet been reached?

I havne't seen any...

Dreaming of an APU with iGPU that supports DDR4 at 4000mhz...dreaming...

I really don't think its going to matter as much as you want it to. Though the iGPU responds well to increase in system ram bandwidth, where does it end for those 'barely passable as a gaming solution' iGPUs? I thought there was already on the downside in fast DDR3 (read 2666+)? I don't recall.

 

[Johan45]

Through my exploit E_D the faster the ram the better the performance. Now that being said it isn't going to make that much difference unless AMD double the HP in one of those APU and makes it truly viable for gaming.
I have wondered myself what kind of boost 3600 migh give over 2600.
As for speed right now all I have seen is the "official" rating of DDR4 2400 now that doesn't mean it can't runn fastr. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the i7 6700K "officially" supports 2133?

 

[OC4FUN/OC4LIFE]

What do you mean by 'HP, Johan? If you mean Shader Cores, then I agree, (otherwise I simply don't understand lol).

@EarthDog, when gaming on a budget, tight budget, every tiny bit of performance you can eek out of a system makes what was spent, that much more worth it.

I see so many people with expensive systems, overclocking them even further, whereas for me, overclocking was out of necessity - because I simply couldn't afford any better.
Where does it end? When the middle class becomes upper, but the the lower class will become middle, and new lower class will be created - thus the cycle continues & so does the demande for cheap systems to make gaming (albeit barely passable) a reality, for the less cash-rich people out there.

Thanks for replies.