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Black Holes are actually Super Computers?? -Scientific American

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TommyHolly

Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2003
Location
Chicago
Did anyone read last month's issue of Scientific American. (I'm pretty sure it was that one.) They were talking about Black Holes and how they could possibly be used (or are being used) as Super Computers. The article went way out there on a few points but still was an interesting read.
 
I read it in someone's office. Even if I had it, then I would have to go and type about 10 paragraphs out...ugh
 
Yep, I've got a subscription to SCIAM, so I read it.
One of the better articles I've seen in awhile too.
The basic idea was that black holes operate in the same way as computers do (so does everything,) information goes in, possibly gets changed and new infomation comes out. One of the better points I enjoyed was that they were saying it might be theoretically possible to use a black hole in the same way a hacker uses a computer. Tailor what information you send in to get a desirable outcome. Basically hack a black hole to make something. The idea just astounds me hehe...
 
I think that you are possibly confusing two different articles Tommy. The one on simulation of black holes uses computers in the same way that other simulation programs run. Think about weather prediction or f@h and just use the math that has been developed for black holes and you should get that idea.

The one that you read about black holes working as computers was a bit different. That article drew on some of the newer parts of information theory. You could try searching for ?holographic universe? if you want to bake your brain.

There is a simpler way of looking at it. Remember the Matrix (the first one -- not the sequels)? Now let me suggest that it doesn't really matter if we are in the matrix or not. In fact, given a good enough simulation, it should be impossible to prove whether we are in the matrix or outside of it.

Everything that we see and feel can be represented as information. Is the steak you are eating tender and juicy or is it a pattern of information? Even if you are not in the matrix, there is a sense in which the tender juicy steak is information in your brain. Put another way, when you fold, you are moving information around in your processor but in theory it should be identical to the way proteins fold in the real world. A fully folded protein molecule contains the same information that the simulated one had in your proc. Granted the one in your proc could not play a role in the human body but that is rather unimportant to information theory. What matters is that a simulated protein should be essentially identical to a real one.

Now if I throw an alarm clock into a black hole, it is destroyed right? In the sense that it has been ripped apart by tidal forces, yes it has. But we did not just throw a huge pile of quarks into the black hole but rather a highly organized bunch of quarks. They were in fact arranged in such a way as to be called an alarm clock. Yes, the quarks got ripped apart but the information (about how to make an alarm clock) also fell into the black hole.

Have I lost you yet? I hope not because we are finally getting to the computer analogy.

Black holes are not really black but rather a very dark gray. They leak stuff through a process called ?Hawking radiation?. Stuff goes in and stuff comes out. For stellar mass black holes, stuff leaks very slowly. But for really tiny black holes like the one they are trying to make at CERN, they leak so fast that they will evaporate before the containment vessel can collapse (and that goodness for that:p).

Now the thing is that if a black hole can leak out completely, then what of the information that originally fell into it? If a black hole eventually ceases to exist, then it follows that the information had to come out of it at the same time as the stuff that carried the information into the black hole in the first place.

Granted, it came out as Hawking radiation but it still exists in some form. The situation can be analogized by considering how my understanding of the article became the motion of my fingers on my keyboard >>> then it became binary code in my proc >>> then it was sent over many miles of copper, fiber and possibly a hop through a satellite and eventually appeared on your screen and into your brain. Of course those pathways are far better understood. Yet if some sense could be made of the pathways of information flow through a black hole, it ought to be possible to reconstruct the alarm clock that we tossed into the black hole earlier.

So information goes into a black hole, gets tossed around in some way and comes out differently. In a sense, that is what a computer does. That does not mean that we are going to be using black holes in our computers any time in the foreseeable future. Nor does it mean that black holes are hackable. In theory, yes that is all possible but then lots of things are possible in theory.
 
So basically nothing is created or destroted, just re-arranged. good. next time around i would like to make some adjustments that is to be my future re-arranged self :D
 
Thank you for clarifying malpine. I was going to come right out and say that the atricle had nothing to do with the title and subject that tommy was talking about but I though I'd wait it out for someone to clarfiy.
 
nahmus said:
So basically nothing is created or destroted, just re-arranged. good. next time around i would like to make some adjustments that is to be my future re-arranged self :D

exacty energy cannot be created or destroyed only changed into other forms of energy -basic physics...
 
i remember hearing something about blackholes and deja-vu being related..... or maybe im just retarded...maybe dr. malpine can enlighten me on that ;}
 
I was thinking about this the other day and had a thought that scared me a little. What if this entire universe is one big simulation created by some higher being? Think about it, eventually everything is going to end in one giant black hole. That is if the dark matter theory is true. Everything will be held together, and eventually the gravitational forces of all the blackholes will start dragging the universe back in on itself. Could we all just be part of some elaborate experiment on a universal scale? Are we nothing more than data that is to be analyzed?
 
Another interesting piece (maybe unreleated):

Ulf Leonhardt has made a proposal to simulate a black-hole exprimentally using a phenomenon known as Electromagnetically Induced Transparency (EIT) and a BEC (Bose Einstein Condensate).

http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20000205/fob4.asp
http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/physics/pdf/0111/0111058.pdf

The term "slow light" :

Slowing light or stopping light (a part of my experiment) is achieved by this phenomenon of EIT. In simple terms you have 2 lasers , a stronge control beam and a weak probe beam hitting a sample of atomic vapour (In my expt Cesium) in a glass cell. Cesuim atoms have different atomic energy levels (we are interested in certain specific levels only) and the operational laser frequencies to excite the atom to these energy levels at at 852.4 nm.

The strong control beam "mixes" these energy levels. So Quantum Mechanically YOU CANNOT distinguish the atomic Energy from the photon (light) energy. When you write things down you talk about total energy. The atom and the field are coupled together. Now, these energy levels mix to form new levels (called dressed states).

Looks like a V.

The probe is tuned to the mixed levels i.e it pushes the atom to the mixed levels. As you know from a simple 2 slit interference pattern, there will be interference between 2 waves (from the same source) if the path taken by them is different.

The Quantum mechanical analogue is the interference of Probability waves or amplitudes. In our case the probability of the atoms de-exciting from the dressed states to the ground state can be made zero (destructive interference) if the conditions are right.

So, an opaque medium (atoms absorbing light) can be made transparent and this is EIT.

Now, under these conditions i.e when EIT has been established we can introduce another laser beam and this beam will be trapped by the vapour. What happens here is that the Refractive index of the vapour becomes so high that light is stopped!!!

So you can stop and release light!!! This maybe an answer to optical memory.

Curently EIT has been achieved in solid state materials (quantum dots) in addition to atomic vapour.
 
yes i read the article it was amazing, also did anyone check out the latest issue? the quantum encryption? about how we can make pretty much in decipherable codes, it was awesome
 
Malpine did an excellent job of making things simple (I'm afraid I'm not that gifted)!


A few comments on that:

Hawking initially said that no useful information can be got out of an object destroyed by the Black Hole. Now he has changed his position.
I think the initial argument was about Entropy and the 2nd law of thermodynamics.
According to the 2nd law, Entropy or disoder of the UNIVERSE always increases or remains constant. And according to quantum information theory, an increase in entropy always implies less information (I may be hand waving here). So in that context he argued that no information can be obtained from a Black Hole.

There are a lot of fun stuff in Physics and I can start a Physics thread if you guys are interested. I'll be partial to Quantum Optics because thats my research :D
 
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