Der8auer - x299 vrm disaster

[Alaric]

The truth is probably somewhere in the middle. It usually is. LOL

 

[wingman99]

Panic...lol. i definitely think they reacted to Ryzen, i hardly think it was in panic.

Isnt it cooler in many cases than open air? Typically, open air has little to no airflow while cases do... i mean of you can run bare vrm with just a fan pointed at it... the heatsink and minimal flow should be ok?

EarthDog did you test the 10 core at 4.6GHz with prime95 AVX?

 

[EarthDog]

4.6 ghz, no. 4.5 ghz and aida64, yes. I wouldnt have the cooling for p95 avx.

 

[Alaric]

4.6 ghz, no. 4.5 ghz and aida64, yes. I wouldnt have the cooling for p95 avx.

Stock air cooler wouldn't have been enough? Or you didn't even have an aftermarket solution that could handle stock speed stress testing? I'm thinking you're making my earlier argument... but that's none of my business. LOL

 

[wingman99]

4.6 ghz, no. 4.5 ghz and aida64, yes. I wouldnt have the cooling for p95 avx.

I noticed in your review it clocked down to 4.422GHz while stress testing at 4.5GHz. Do you think that is borderline VRM overheating?

 

[EarthDog]

Stock air cooler wouldn't have been enough? Or you didn't even have an aftermarket solution that could handle stock speed stress testing? I'm thinking you're making my earlier argument... but that's none of my business. LOL

these dont come with a cooler, but i highly doubt that stock intel cooler would work on this past stock. My aftermarket solution crapped out at 4.5ghz all cores/tbreads, as noted in the review. Not sure what point im making of yours, however.

 

[Droidene]

Interessing, this is not good news for who plan to buy X299 motherboard.
Any other argument is just an attempt to brush the problem under the carpet.

 

[Alaric]

these dont come with a cooler, but i highly doubt that stock intel cooler would work on this past stock. My aftermarket solution crapped out at 4.5ghz all cores/tbreads, as noted in the review. Not sure what point im making of yours, however.

I was just pulling your chain. 4.5 GHz on 10 cores is pretty darn impressive. Other than the niche of the OC community, the big X chips should hold their own, core for core, against the Red Team. For now, anyway. LOL

 

[mackerel]

Another data point. He tried to follow up on de8auer's claims with his own testing, and did not see them in his setup.

 

[Woomack]

The only difference here ( but quite important ) is that he has 4 fans near mobo/vrm ... der8auer said that there are no issues when there is additional fan on the vrm heatsink and issues are when is no additional cooling for vrm. If I'm right then there is issue with contact of heatsink as there were comments about bad heat transfer between vrm and heatsink on other boards like gigabyte series.

One more X series on which Intel was saving. Each Intel X generation is not as good as it was planned. Every generation has some issues. Somehow barely anyone is talking about it. When AMD has issues while overclocking then whole internet is shouting.
X58 = vrm issues, most motherboards had problems under full load, MSI, ASRock and Biostar boards were simply dying ( don't read it as most popular OC boards which were actually good but were also redesigned after premiere )
X79 = design flaw, some controllers were disabled because of stability issues, delayed premiere because of stability issues
X99 = SAS controllers were disabled, PCIE lanes were reordered, delayed premiere because of stability issues
X299 = power delivery issue, premiere faster than expected but they could spend some more time to release fully tested product

In the same time all X series motherboards had issues with memory slots ... sooner or later memory was not visible or capacity issues were happening. I wonder if the same will be with X299 boards.

 

[Kenrou]

The only difference here ( but quite important ) is that he has 4 fans near mobo/vrm ... der8auer said that there are no issues when there is additional fan on the vrm heatsink and issues are when is no additional cooling for vrm.

Shows most arguments wouldn't start in the 1st place if people actually read an article instead of skimming over it (sadly I'm guilty of this as well)

 

[Woomack]

I haven't seen whole movie but I've seen that during whole tests on other websites motherboard was in a case with good airflow. I could miss something there. I've read 2 articles with quotes from der8auer where he said when the issues are happening. It's about the same as on some X99 boards or earlier. After reading some additional comments I can only say that in this case some motherboards are causing instability when vrm are overheating so it's clearly design flaw which is or heatsink fault or not enough phases/load balance. In some cases cooling design is causing issues like thermal pads on gigabyte boards which are insulating rather than transfering heat ( it was described somewhere ).

I don't think it would make any big difference for Intel if they waited ~2 months but designed all better. The same with processors and used TIM instead of solder. AMD is not pushing really hard with their Ryzen line comparing to whole Intel domination. Probably future's most popular chip so Ryzen 3 is not even on the market yet. About this CPU Intel should worry the most as they will lose a lot if people start to buy cheap 4 cores for gaming/home computers.
Right now I see that the most popular is the lowest 6 core Ryzen ( about 5x higher sales than 8 cores or 4 cores ) because of much lower price than 8 cores and not much higher than 4 cores.

 

[Alaric]

AMD picked up over 10% CPU market share in Q2 this year. Intel should probably hope AMD isn't pushing Ryzen too hard, and if that sales performance is "relaxed" marketing I'm even more impressed. LOL
http://www.tweaktown.com/news/58252/amd-took-10-4-cpu-market-share-intel-q2-2017/index.html

 

[Woomack]

One of reasons are ridiculous prices of Intel processors/motherboards and that those who had last gen of Intel ( Skylake or even Ivy ) are not really buying Kaby because if you are not overclocking then there is no special difference.
So it's not that people are buying AMD because they want them more than Intel but because those who have good Intels see no point to replace them and those who have older series don't want to pay so much for new Intels but they pick the best performance/price option. Right now it's 6 core ryzen and these chips have the highest sales ( based on the biggest online stores in my part of the world, which is huge market ).

AMD is pushing really hard while Intel for some reason was scared and released Skylake-X too fast. But I have no idea why when they are losing the most not on the HEDT market but on the lower series processors. AMD has released only one generation of Ryzen which is ending on ~$400 chips so about max which above average PC user will spend on CPU while Intel is starting from ~$350 with overpriced motherboards and most chips are $600+. These 2 CPU series are not direct competition to each other and everything else is not even released and won't be for some time.
AMD is winning in Q2 mainly because of lower cost of whole platform and this is boosting their CPU sales.

 

[Alaric]

I don't think anyone but Intel and their stockholders cares "why". It's a huge increase and Team Red is effectively putting the screws to Intel. "Why" is a distant second place to the fact that consumers are spending money on AMD and not Intel.

 

[EarthDog]

I noticed in your review it clocked down to 4.422GHz while stress testing at 4.5GHz. Do you think that is borderline VRM overheating?

Ok, so tested again, and saw fluctuations at stock, 4 GHz and 4.5 GHz. In none of these were it because of VRM temp throttling in this situation. At 4.5 GHz after an hour, the heatsink was hot to the touch. If you notice, there was no CPU throttling in the screen shot (though that shows a shorter clip in time than the top temp graph. In this test, my average clocks in the 'statistics' tab, showed 4000.5. Minimum was 3994, while maximum was 4004. HWMonitor is the only thing showing ~100 MHz fluctuations, though....AIDA64 is not showing that at all. Here is a 4 Ghz SS showing the difference I talking about...

I don't think anyone but Intel and their stockholders cares "why". It's a huge increase and Team Red is effectively putting the screws to Intel. "Why" is a distant second place to the fact that consumers are spending money on AMD and not Intel.

Its a cheaper alternative. for those that need the threads, its the better alternative. Otherwise, if you want the best IPC, you need to pay for it.

 

[Kenrou]

HWMonitor is the only thing showing ~100 MHz fluctuations, though....AIDA64 is not showing that at all.

HWInfo64 did the same with every FX i had over the years, which is a pity because its my favourite temp program (comprehensive and i can put temps on the taskbar near the clock). At one point i actually thought my Sabertooth was kicking the bucket.

 

[WhitehawkEQ]

View attachment 191953

Ummm, under Temperatures and Clocks, where is Core 5,6 and 7? and under Utilization where is CPU 10, 11, 12, 13, 14 and 15? Just how many Cores and threads are there in that CPU?
Seems wonky to me.

 

[EarthDog]

10c/20t.

 

[Blaylock]

I have a few questions for those in the "know" with the X299 platform. I understand VRM temps are higher than expected but are they experiencing a higher than normal failure rate? I was surprised to see so many AM4 boards without heatsinks when I was shopping for Ryzen and someone explained that modern VRM's were good up to 110°C range before throttling occurred. Can someone verify that?

Also could this be related to the fact that Intel released a statement recently NOT to overclock their CPU's (even the "X" series)?