EK Big thumbs down

[Meathead]

So I just took apart my rig recently and noticed that I had some nickel corrosion going on in my gpu water block after cleaning my system. I read about huge issue with corrosion and the nickel plating for a lot of folks that was caused by silver, phosphate biocides, and distilled water being used together. Odd thing is my cpu block looks perfectly fine and it's nickel. I've only been running distilled + killcoil.

I emailed their support with a picture, quick caption, and when I bought the product. I mentioned that I was a few months out of their 2 year window for warranty but its a defective product and it should be replaced. I didn't know about any of it as I bought the block before these reports surfaced. They said send in the necessary info to RMA and they'll take a look. 5 minutes after I have everything uploaded, they deny it saying I'm out of the 2 year window lol. What was the point of that? I already stated when I bought it so why make me go through the hassle of taking apart my block and taking photos once again only to be denied RMA when I gave that information upfront.


*Edit* I should have been more clear. This is less of a warranty issue and more of EK not honoring a recall they did on pretty much the entire line of nickel blocks at the time. This is also an ISSUE that is well documented and EK even admits so my block being faulty is NOT DEBATABLE. They used a cheap process called electrolytic plating because it can be up to 4 times less than electroless plating. They have since switched to electroless and that is what I wanted to RMA for.

Long story short, EK sucks don't buy their stuff. After reading about everyone else and their experience, I'd prefer to stick to brands that you know take care of business when their product fails or not use cheap lesser quality processes without any testing.

 

[idkfa]

Sorry to hear but here in Germany we often have only 6 months warranty and a overall guarantee of 2 years. Technically all failures that occur after 6 months you would have to proof they existed from the start. Luckily nearly all sellers/manufacturers will replace within those 2 years.
I can understand that you are upset but the person taking your call is.likely to not have sufficient power to decide by herself. And if you are out of warranty, then you are out. So I don't see how this is their fault.

 

[EarthDog]

So you are upset that they will not return your product after the warranty has expired? I understand about the extra effort past warranty and they should have said something upfront, but... its out of warranty. The product works just fine, right(?), but is just showing signs of corrosion.

 

[Automata]

To give insight as to why they asked for RMA information then denied it, they likely put in the RMA request for you, then had it denied. The person helping you probably can't approve/deny requests themselves; they just answer the brunt of the calls (quick answers, simple questions, process RMAs, etc). That is usually how support works. First level can't do much in the way of administration. My job is phone based support, so I know how this works first hand.

The block was quite a bit out of the warranty period, so it makes sense they would deny it.

 

[Meathead]

I guess I need to be more clear about what the real problem is. Here's a link to a good start on the issue http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/266834-29-before-nickel-block . The nickel is flaking off and causing mild corrosion right now but with how bad some of these blocks got, I think it's not the best idea to keep it in the loop. This is a manufacturer defect considering the things that cause the nickel corrosion are used in everyday loops. Distillled, silver, and ptnuke all cause this process to happen. They even came out with a new model to fix it. At the end of the day, I feel my block should be replaced. It's 6 months expired. This type of corrosion didn't happen overnight. It obviously started right when the block was put in the loop and is a continual process. I was just using distilled + killcoil.

They created a 2 year warranty over this fiasco. It's not just like a copper block that needs to be polished up with vinegar. They can't stretch a warranty for the few of us who are just finding out about this. What a joke . Stuck with a block I think I should not be using and therefore would not sell because I wouldn't want anyone else to use it. Less than 3 years old

 

[EarthDog]

In the OCN link it specifically says this:

We would like to appeal to all users which want to have long lasting pride and joy in their projects to start using quality coolants with anti-corrosion additive. Several coolants performed well in the tests, and are recommended. You can see the test results for the coolants in this report.

Here is the conclusion in EK's PDF:

Although distilled water has excellent cooling characteristics, because it has no additives it enables dirt deposits and is a potential time bomb for corrosion (which is also shown in analysis carried out by the Jozef Stefan institute).

Regardless of the better anti-corrosion resistance of EN compared to the galvanic plating, the surface became much dirtier (staining/discoloration) after the use of distilled water without anticorrosion additives. Some deposits might also have been the result of plasticizer leakage, coming from tubes. EKWB strongly recommends the use of coolants, such as EK-Ekoolant which was tested along with similar coolants such as Thermochill EC6. Fluid XP proved to be satisfactory, but due to its alcohol content, it is not recommended for use with EK products.

According to that testing, the silver and ptnuke slow that process down compared to plain distilled...

This explains why I saw nearly none on an older nickle plated block when I used fluid XP though!

That's just tough (and I don't mean that disparagingly...just difficult to swallow). Still its been published for 2 years, the warranty is up, it just looks bad. If it was in warranty, you would have my sympathies more than you do... still tough though... sorry man.

 

[Meathead]

In the OCN link it specifically says this:



Here is the conclusion in EK's PDF:



According to that testing, the silver and ptnuke slow that process down compared to plain distilled...

This explains why I saw nearly none on an older nickle plated block when I used fluid XP though!

That's just tough (and I don't mean that disparagingly...just difficult to swallow). Still its been published for 2 years, the warranty is up, it just looks bad. If it was in warranty, you would have my sympathies more than you do... still tough though... sorry man.

I do agree they are more than ok to deny my rma. But it still won't stop me from never supporting them again through wallet or word of mouth. I'm trying thermochill coolant out to see how that does. It was really difficult to avoid buying EK's coolant. Just need to remember to never trust anything but copper blocks like I used to and no more EK products for my next build.

 

[EarthDog]

So you agree they are in the right, yet still want to spread that word? Ok... have fun with that, and better luck on the loop next time.

 

[Meathead]

So you agree they are in the right, yet still want to spread that word? Ok... have fun with that, and better luck on the loop next time.

I agree they have the right to deny it. I don't agree that they should have if they want to run a good business and one that takes care of customers. I honestly doubt I'd ever run into these issues with a more reputable brand. Every time I've strayed from proven top manufacturers, I've gotten burned to some degree.

 

[EarthDog]

They are a reputable brand, IMO. But I won't split hairs anymore.

 

[Knufire]

Really what you're saying is that unless a company goes above and beyond their policy to serve you, you're going to go around trashing their reputation? I swear, people have the most incredulous expectations sometimes...I wouldn't ever expect a company to replace a product that was outside of the warranty period, ever. If they did, I'd feel lucky, and I most definitely would not hold the fact that they didn't against them.

 

[||Console||]

I think in the OPs mind the whole line is defective and with them knowing this they should honor his RMA .

 

[Meathead]

Really what you're saying is that unless a company goes above and beyond their policy to serve you, you're going to go around trashing their reputation? I swear, people have the most incredulous expectations sometimes...I wouldn't ever expect a company to replace a product that was outside of the warranty period, ever. If they did, I'd feel lucky, and I most definitely would not hold the fact that they didn't against them.

I'm not trashing their reputation I'm presenting facts so if that's trashing them, it is proving my point.

This is a faulty product and now I have a water block that is harming the rest of my system. They released untested products with ****ty nickel plating. It took them 3 months of testing to discover they made a huge mistake. Widely accepted loop contents were damaging the nickel plating aka silver and pt nuke. That tells me they did zero research. What's sad is the chemistry behind all this is at a general college chemistry level and they still messed it up.

I expect a company to man up considering water blocks should and most do way past how old mine is regardless of their policy that was not even a policy when I bought it. I didn't think a warranty for a water block was necessary after 30 days of passing leak tests.

 

[TheHutchTTU]

Really what you're saying is that unless a company goes above and beyond their policy to serve you, you're going to go around trashing their reputation? I swear, people have the most incredulous expectations sometimes...I wouldn't ever expect a company to replace a product that was outside of the warranty period, ever. If they did, I'd feel lucky, and I most definitely would not hold the fact that they didn't against them.

+1 to that

Also, if the company decided to 'overlook' its warranty for everyone, how much money would that cost them? Gotta look at it from the big picture/business side too.

 

[Meathead]

I think in the OPs mind the whole line is defective and with them knowing this they should honor his RMA .

Exactly

 

[EarthDog]

The testing I linked/quoted shows that PTNuke and Silver KC slowed that process. The culprit is the Distilled water, NOT PTN or SKC.

Is your block literally flaking off nickel? Can you post some pictures?

 

[Meathead]

+1 to that

Also, if the company decided to 'overlook' its warranty for everyone, how much money would that cost them? Gotta look at it from the big picture/business side too.

They did zero testing or they could of avoided this. They didn't even run standard conditions for any length obviously or they would have had seen these issues. Most users had issues after a month or two.

 

[Meathead]

The testing I linked/quoted shows that PTNuke and Silver KC slowed that process. The culprit is the Distilled water, NOT PTN or SKC.

Is your block literally flaking off nickel? Can you post some pictures?

The data then contradicts ek as they specifically state that they do not want silver or pt nuke in the system and advise against doing so with that report as evidence. Infact they say to use pure distilled over silver/ptnuke distilled combo. Posted a pic in my build log in the WC section. On my mobile so I don't have access to the pic right now

 

[EarthDog]

That data was from EK...

They didn't state that in there, but you can clearly see in that PDF, pure distilled was the worst, while Distilled = PTN or SKC looked a lot better.

EDIT: I saw your build log and the funny thing is, that part where you are seeing corrosion or the copper exposed, is not touching the liquid. That said, that is ugly, but I can't imagine it affecting anything else in the loop since that part is (supposed to be) dry. Otherwise, the GPU block looks good where the liquid is flowing, you even said so yourself:

The gpu wb looked even better around the fins except I found some exposed copper inside where the nickel plating wore off. There was also some mineral build-up. Not sure how that happened considering this is the first time I've opened the block so the missing nickel plating had to have come from the factory like that.

If it was there from the factory, as you theorized, why would you have not returned it at that time? How did you miss that in the first place?!!!


So, putting it together it seems that...

1. (You believe) this problem was there before you even installed the block (and didnt notice it?).
2. The problem is caused by distilled water with PTN and SKC actually preventing the issue (from EK PDF I linked).
3. The problem you are having is not from the liquid as the part that lost its plating does/should not be in contact with the liquid in that area in the first place.

That said, why should EK honor your warranty when you believe it was there from the factory and, I would guess you missed it? Again its not even in the channel where liquid flows... I don't know... The more I see the less I think this has anything to do with EK standing behind their products. Yeah, that shouldnt happen, but its not affecting the rest of your loop and simply looks bad. Not sure why you have an issue now when, as you theorized, it was there from the factory. A google later and its now caused by the liquid that doesnt touch that area?

 

[Meathead]

That data was from EK...

They didn't state that in there, but you can clearly see in that PDF, pure distilled was the worst, while Distilled = PTN or SKC looked a lot better.

EDIT: I saw your build log and the funny thing is, that part where you are seeing corrosion or the copper exposed, is not touching the liquid.

That whole area is touching liquid. There is an o ring right around that center screw hole so it obviously has to be under some amount of water or else no need for that. How would the nickel even corrode if it wasn't in contact with anything?

www.ekwb.com/news/83/19

Certain chemical additives based on pure silver and copper sulphate cause corrosion. Down a bit farther it says use neither silver with distilled water nor additives based on copper sulphate which is pt nuke

My stance is replace a product that you know to be faulty to make right for using your customer base as guinea pigs for their products. I can't make it anymore straight forward than that. Next time do some basic testing using standard conditions.