Gigabyte Z170 UD5 Voltage Spikies w/ Offset

[Juggley]

Hello and thanks for taking the time to read my post people. First off here are my system specs.

- i5 6600k @ 4.4ghz
- Gigabyte z170 UD5
- Corsair LPX 3000 RAM 15-15-17-35 @ 1.35v
- Corsair Rm850i PSU @ 850w
- Evga Gtx 1070 FTW Edition with no OC other than factory.
- Corsair H100i Cooler in push/pull setup


I was wondering about voltage spikes in offset or adaptive mode on this board. I'm not sure what Gigabyte calls it but it seems adaptive to me. I set the vcore on normal and set dvid to 0.00v to get my base voltage which was 1.210v. so i then added +0.030 to give me 1.240v. Everything is stable at this voltage and i have all power saving features turned on also. i have my ring core or uncore at 4.3ghz.

When i'm stress testing with prime 95 v26.6. I noticed the voltage will be close to what i set 1.240v but then it it will spike up to 1.272v-1.284v when it gets to crunching hard and if i run Intel Burn Test it will stay at 1.284v. i do have LLC set to High and i'm wondering if this is normal when in offset or whatever Gigabyte wants to call it? i figured with LLC on High it would help minimize spikes, but maybe that is how it works in offset mode.*shrug

I also tried to bump my offset up to bring me up to 1.284v or close to it. i thought maybe it was spiking up because it wanted that extra voltage but it was still jumping from 1.284v to 1.32v give or take @ 4.4ghz. *shrug

I do like that low idle when i'm not doing anything demanding. I just got this rig not long ago and upgraded from my trusty i5 2500k rig which is now the family HTPC now. Just wondering if this is normal or something wrong with my board maybe. Also i'm running latest Bios F22 if that matters. If anyone needs any information i may have left out, let me know. Thanks!

 

[trents]

Power management with Skylake and Kaby has become very complex and there are some power management technologies operative behind the scenes that are outside of the realm of user control. Some if them seem almost mysterious. What I will say is that what you describe is perfectly normal behavior when using current generation Intel CPUs and none of those spikes are in the danger range or even close.

 

[Juggley]

Hey thanks for stopping by! Yea i been on Sandy Bridge so long that i'm just like what the hell on this new stuff. My temps and everything are about 65c-75c in Prime95 V26.6 and Intel Burn Test it will go to about 80c but i know that isn't really realistic temp for day to day use.

When i put the voltage in manual mode, where it gets constant voltage it will stick fairly close to whatever voltage a punch in but the offset thing is whack as hell.

So do you know if this is adaptive or just old school offset on this particular board i have? Gigabyte is vague as hell about what is what. Again thanks for your time and opinion. much appreciated!

 

[Juggley]

CPU: [email protected] Delidded <------------ Nice pull on the CPU! If only i had the balls to delid. haha

 

[trents]

No clear winner there since your vcore is not excessively high on manual. Maybe the old adage is true: Simplicity is it's own virtue.

Delidding with the Sky Lake and Kaby Lake CPUs is practically fool proof now that delidding tools are available. I got this one since the popular one was back ordered everywhere: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Intel-CPU-D...690814?hash=item2cbdc9f6fe:g:tsUAAOSwU-pXvlJ1. Not quite as fancy looking as the Rockit Cool everybody raves about (https://rockitcool.myshopify.com/) but cost less and does exactly the same thing.

The other factor that makes delidding Sky Lake and Kaby Lake so safe now is that all the electronic components are now off the PCB and incorporated into the silicon die itself. So not likely that anything can be damaged.

Keep in mind that delidding doesn't necessarily ensure that you will get a higher overclock. It only helps achieve a higher overclock when the overclock is temp limited. If it's voltage limited then all it does is help it run cooler on the same cooling solution, which may be in itself a desirable thing to do.

Having said that, your CPU overclock does seem to be temp limited. If you are getting temp spikes of 80c with that nice cooling solution, adding more voltage to get a higher overclock is likely going to push you into Tjmax range.

I am maxing out at 79c with Prime95 28.10 but only using a Corsair H55 push pull, in a cramped mini ITX case nonetheless. I have half the radiator surface area as you. For me, delidding allowed me to have this overclock in this case with this cooling and I don't think I could have done it otherwise. That should give you some perspective.

Please don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying you can get your 6600k to 4.8. Ain't going to happen. But you should be able to get 4.5 and maybe 4.6 with safe vcore.

 

[wingman99]

Hey thanks for stopping by! Yea i been on Sandy Bridge so long that i'm just like what the hell on this new stuff. My temps and everything are about 65c-75c in Prime95 V26.6 and Intel Burn Test it will go to about 80c but i know that isn't really realistic temp for day to day use.

When i put the voltage in manual mode, where it gets constant voltage it will stick fairly close to whatever voltage a punch in but the offset thing is whack as hell.

So do you know if this is adaptive or just old school offset on this particular board i have? Gigabyte is vague as hell about what is what. Again thanks for your time and opinion. much appreciated!

Sandy bridge was the start of Dynamic DVID. The Dynamic Vcore is controlled by the VID and that is how all stock Intel CPUs work. The VID operation is in the CPU and it controls the Vcore from input by the CPU multiplier, load and temperature. I use Dynamic DVID overclocking to save power at idle 15 watts and wear and tear.

So when you see the voltage vary underload using DVID that is normal because of load changes while running a program or programs.

This is mine with DVID +0.160, LLC AUTO, Prime95 v28.10 Max 1.332v, RealBench Max 1.296v, Web browsing Max 1.344v idle ~ 1.032-0.132, idle power saving features off 1.332v.

 

[Juggley]

Having said that, your CPU overclock does seem to be temp limited. If you are getting temp spikes of 80c with that nice cooling solution, adding more voltage to get a higher overclock is likely going to push you into Tjmax range.

Yea i was wondering my temps seem kinda high for having a H100i cooler. i may remount my cooler. i used arctic silver 5 on it and i know arctic silver has like a 200hr break in cure time. i do have some IC diamond to try out that i have laying around and yes i heard the horror stories about the diamond abrasion issue hehe. i also got 8 fans in my pc. It is odd hitting 80c and i'm still under 1.3v even with the voltage spikes at 4.4ghz considering the cooler i have. i mean i know it's no custom self built loop, but still. i checked the rpm on cooling pump. it's sitting at about 2400 rpms. this is the v1 H100i by the way. i think the v2 runs little faster but i like the look of the v1 is why i got it.


I don't plan on pushing my CPU past 4.4ghz as my PC is on about 24/7 for various reasons. so i'm happy where i am. Just trying to figure out the voltage thing in offset or adaptive. whatever Gigabyte calls it.

Could the TIM be bad on my chip under the IHS? or is it just not much good like the old soldered ones back in the day? *shrug. good pointers on delidding also. thx much for your thoughts.

Sandy bridge was the start of Dynamic DVID. The Dynamic Vcore is controlled by the VID and that is how all stock Intel CPUs work. The VID operation is in the CPU and it controls the Vcore from input by the CPU multiplier, load and temperature. I use Dynamic DVID overclocking to save power at idle 15 watts and wear and tear.

So when you see the voltage vary underload using DVID that is normal because of load changes while running a program or programs.

This is mine with DVID +0.160, LLC AUTO, Prime95 v28.10 Max 1.332v, RealBench Max 1.296v, Web browsing Max 1.344v idle ~ 1.032-0.132, idle power saving features off 1.332v.

yea i have my old Sandy Bridge setup in offset but it behaves completely different than my current setup. when i set offset in my Sandy Bridge with LLC on high it would max out at the voltage i had set in the bios and not go drastically over my inputted voltage. so that is why i was confused as to why it is spiking voltages (1.284v) on this Skylake setup and is spiking way past what i have my offset (+0.030) set at in bios which comes out to 1.240v. Just trying to understand this as i've been researching online and almost everyone does the manual old school way of feeding a constant voltage stream. Me personally i'm trying to evolve and not live like it's 2005. but to each his own. not trying to knock on anyone.

i may run some tests on my old Sandy Bridge and see if maybe i overlooked something in regards of how offset worked on it. Seems these days we are losing more and more control of our PC's. *shrug

Also what was your base voltage before you added +0.160?

 

[wingman99]

Yea i was wondering my temps seem kinda high for having a H100i cooler. i may remount my cooler. i used arctic silver 5 on it and i know arctic silver has like a 200hr break in cure time. i do have some IC diamond to try out that i have laying around and yes i heard the horror stories about the diamond abrasion issue hehe. i also got 8 fans in my pc. It is odd hitting 80c and i'm still under 1.3v even with the voltage spikes at 4.4ghz considering the cooler i have. i mean i know it's no custom self built loop, but still. i checked the rpm on cooling pump. it's sitting at about 2400 rpms. this is the v1 H100i by the way. i think the v2 runs little faster but i like the look of the v1 is why i got it.


I don't plan on pushing my CPU past 4.4ghz as my PC is on about 24/7 for various reasons. so i'm happy where i am. Just trying to figure out the voltage thing in offset or adaptive. whatever Gigabyte calls it.

Could the TIM be bad on my chip under the IHS? or is it just not much good like the old soldered ones back in the day? *shrug. good pointers on delidding also. thx much for your thoughts.



yea i have my old Sandy Bridge setup in offset but it behaves completely different than my current setup. when i set offset in my Sandy Bridge with LLC on high it would max out at the voltage i had set in the bios and not go drastically over my inputted voltage. so that is why i was confused as to why it is spiking voltages (1.284v) on this Skylake setup and is spiking way past what i have my offset (+0.030) set at in bios which comes out to 1.240v. Just trying to understand this as i've been researching online and almost everyone does the manual old school way of feeding a constant voltage stream. Me personally i'm trying to evolve and not live like it's 2005. but to each his own. not trying to knock on anyone.

i may run some tests on my old Sandy Bridge and see if maybe i overlooked something in regards of how offset worked on it. Seems these days we are losing more and more control of our PC's. *shrug

Also what was your base voltage before you added +0.160? i Just trying to see if yours is going over what you have set in bios like mine. i see you maxed out at 1.344v on web browsing. so i assume your base would be like 1.184v. enlighten me. hehe

I think DVID works better on Gigabyte Z170. I just leave LLC on Auto and Gigabyte does not increase the core Voltage from what I set in Bios. No big deal it is so easy to set Dynamic DVID now and before. I think you worry to much, just set what you want for maximum DVID Vcore under stress and be done with it. It really does not mater what you set in bios, just look at what the Rig has for output and is stable overclocking.

 

[Juggley]

I think DVID works better on Gigabyte Z170. I just leave LLC on Auto and Gigabyte does not increase the core Voltage from what I set in Bios. No big deal it is so easy to set Dynamic DVID now and before. I think you worry to much, just set what you want for maximum DVID Vcore under stress and be done with it. It really does not mater what you set in bios, just look at what the Rig has for output and is stable overclocking.

i'll try putting LLC on auto and see what happens. i have it set on high now. Also sorry i can get a bit OCD about things when i feel like i've done something wrong or i think something is broke. imagine what my wife has to put up with lol my greatest flaw as a mere mortal. Thanks for your help and putting things into perspective.

 

[Juggley]

I'm currently testing with LLC on Auto @ 4.4ghz. there is a lot of vdroop though, which i expected. i know vdroop is actually a good thing just more of a pain when messing with numbers and accounting for the droop. well for me anyway.

Now Manual Voltage where you feed it a constant voltage works great in my testing but it seems like Gigabyte bit the bullet with the implementation of DVID. like it was a after thought. i do like saving power though where my PC is on a lot. Maybe i'm just a idiot. who knows lol

Thanks for those who dropped by to share their thoughts with me. If anyone has anymore ideas or pointers, feel free to drop them below. much appreciated. /End Rant

 

[wingman99]

DVID, Adaptive and offset are from different motherboard manufactures, there all the same. All the motherboard manufactures have the working option of Dynamic VID from Intel. The motherboard manufactures did not design DVID, adaptive option, it comes from the Intel and there processor. So if you set your Bios to default you can see how DVID works stock. When you set DVID the motherboard only calibrates the voltage and the processor regulates what the voltage signal will be for the VRM, then the output for Vcore.

I have been helping folks in the forums since Sandy Bridge and all folks think what you do and say about Dynamic, adaptive Vcore and it is the same on all manufactures motherboards. The VID implementation is from Intel.

Since you have OCD your missing the variance of electronics and it's complexity. So what I'm trying to say is DVID settings in Bios are not linear to the VID output in the processor. This is not 2005 anymore it is very complicated the CPU will pick its optimum voltage depending on current conditions (temperature, frequency, load, etc.) At idle I save 14 watts and wear and tear with all power saving features on.

This is what you need to do for running DVID enable all powersaving features, run LLC on AUTO then just record the maximum Vcore under stress testing to achieve stability. Don't worry about Voltage droop it is added by Intel for longevity.
This is mine with 4.5GHz OC DVID +0.160, LLC AUTO, Prime95 v28.10 Max 1.332v, RealBench Max 1.296v, Web browsing Max 1.344v idle ~ 1.032-0.132, idle power saving features off 1.332v. What do you get?

 

[Juggley]

DVID, Adaptive and offset are from different motherboard manufactures, there all the same. All the motherboard manufactures have the working option of Dynamic VID from Intel. The motherboard manufactures did not design DVID, adaptive option, it comes from the Intel and there processor. So if you set your Bios to default you can see how DVID works stock. When you set DVID the motherboard only calibrates the voltage and the processor regulates what the voltage signal will be for the VRM, then the output for Vcore.

I have been helping folks in the forums since Sandy Bridge and all folks think what you do and say about Dynamic, adaptive Vcore and it is the same on all manufactures motherboards. The VID implementation is from Intel.

Since you have OCD your missing the variance of electronics and it's complexity. So what I'm trying to say is DVID settings in Bios are not linear to the VID output in the processor. This is not 2005 anymore it is very complicated the CPU will pick its optimum voltage depending on current conditions (temperature, frequency, load, etc.) At idle I save 14 watts and wear and tear with all power saving features on.

This is what you need to do for running DVID enable all powersaving features, run LLC on AUTO then just record the maximum Vcore under stress testing to achieve stability. Don't worry about Voltage droop it is added by Intel for longevity.
This is mine with 4.5GHz OC DVID +0.160, LLC AUTO, Prime95 v28.10 Max 1.332v, RealBench Max 1.296v, Web browsing Max 1.344v idle ~ 1.032-0.132, idle power saving features off 1.332v. What do you get?

I see where your coming from. i think why people think like i do is due to confusion by the the board manufacturers marketing plus the fact that i really don't see alot on the topic of DVID not unless you dig deep. i stay pretty busy so i can't maul through every article like i use to when i was a young lad but if giving the information like you have just laid out it makes alot more sense and i sincerely appreciate you laying out this information for me in a nice manner instead of speaking down on me like some pc elites will do.

I believe i also got alot of misinformed information through forums and various sources over the years. Maybe just a misunderstanding on my part though also. i always figured the VID was more or less linear based on what offset you inputted (E.g. say base voltage is 1.2v then you add say +0.040 which would equal 1.240v, i always figured that would mean you would top out at the max voltage of 1.240v and then it drops to whatever the low idle voltage would be.) and i thought adaptive mode was the more dynamic mode where it would fluctuate voltages all over the place. i didn't know they were all the same. hence the confusion.

After staring at the VID reading in Hwmonitor i see how it changes dynamically now and calculates that with the +0.100 to give me my Vcore at whatever load is stacked against it. i never looked at the actual VID reading until now but always focused just on the Vcore. Learned something new. Anyway here's my results.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

- 4.4ghz Windows Power Plan (Balanced)

- LLC= Auto

- Ambient = 22c -23c (Getting Close to Summer)

- Dynamic Vcore (DVID) = +0.100

- All Power Saving Features Enabled in Bios

- Intel Burn Test ver.2.54 = Max Vcore = 1.260 - 1.284v - Idle Vcore = 0.840v - Max Temps = 78c - Idle Temps = 24c -25c
(Note: All Same as below results besides idle voltage and idle temps difference between power plans.)

- Prime 95 ver.26.6 = Max Vcore = 1.236v - 1.260v - Idle Vcore = 0.840v - Max Temps = 67c - Idle Temps = 24c -25c

- Firefox Web Browsing = Max Vcorre = 1.284v - Idle Vcore = 0.840v - Max Temp = 43c - Idle Temps = 24c -25c

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

- 4.4ghz Windows Power Plan (High Performance)

- LLC= Auto

- Ambient = 22c -23c (Getting close to summer)

- Dynamic Vcore (DVID) = +0.100

- All Power Saving Features Enabled in Bios

- Intel Burn Test ver.2.54 = Max Vcore = 1.260v - 1.284v - Idle Vcore = 1.284v - Max Temps = 78c - Idle Temps = 29c - 30c
(Note: Droops from 1.284v to 1.260v, bumps up to 1.272v on occasion. mostly sits @1.260v)

- Prime 95 ver.26.6 = Max Vcore = 1.236v - 1.260v - Idle Vcore = 1.284v - Max Temps = 66c - Idle Temps = 29c - 30c
(Note: Droops from 1.284v and maxes at 1.236v with occasional bump to 1.260v using Blend Mode in Prime95)

- Firefox Web Browsing = Max Vcorre = 1.272v - 1.284v - Idle Vcore = 1.284v - Max Temp = 43c - Idle Temps = 29c - 30c
(Note: Pretty consistent here at 1.284v with occasional drop to 1.272v)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I'm still testing the above settings. So far so good. temps look good and still no sign of stability loss. Will test further though to be sure.
I use a older version of Prime95 as it's not as taxing as the newer versions if your wondering. I use Intel Burn Test on standard setting as my quick hard pounding test.

Anything i left out just let me know. i do want to learn and correct some of the misinformation or misunderstandings i have learned over the years from various sources.

I see you got your explanation down to the the T on how DVID works. I see you have ran across many people like me with the same confusion. it shows lol

Also if you have any articles or videos (preferably videos as i'm a better learner if i have something to visualize for some reason. Product of the 80's.) you could point me to that goes more in depth on this would be appreciated so i don't have to hound everyone in the forums.

Even though it's not 2005 anymore, 2005 thanks you wingman99. hehe

 

[wingman99]

Thanks for the complement. Also thanks for your results, it looks like your board and processor is running the same as mine and working just fine. Using DVID, Adaptive, offset, is easy it just looks complicated when you don't know what is going on. I get most of my information from the experience of helping other people, Wikipedia and articles.

Asus calls it SVID, however the Vcore setting is Adaptive. Here is article describing SVID on ASUS. http://www.tweaktown.com/guides/748...-intel-skylake-overclocking-guide/index5.html

 

[Juggley]

Thanks for the complement. Also thanks for your results, it looks like your board and processor is running the same as mine and working just fine. Using DVID, Adaptive, offset, is easy it just looks complicated when you don't know what is going on. I get most of my information from the experience of helping other people, Wikipedia and articles.

Asus calls it SVID, however the Vcore setting is Adaptive. Here is article describing SVID on ASUS. http://www.tweaktown.com/guides/748...-intel-skylake-overclocking-guide/index5.html

I'm really glad i made this thread. This has helped a ton in my learning of DVID. I like using the Power Saving features. I know alot could care less but thing is i'm a grown up now and i pay the electric bill lol. I'm reading up on that article you linked to me. So far looks like a interesting read.

I think i can get my temps lower. i talked to a buddy from work who has same cooler and cpu as me with about the same settings i got @4.4ghz and he is about 7c-8c cooler than i am but he is using IC Diamond 7 carat paste. I'm using Arctic Silver 5 which i been using on builds since who knows when. My Arctic Silver may need more cure time because it is rated at like 200hrs before it settles in. I know most people probably could care less and i know my current temps are still in the safe zone but if i can get it 7c-8c cooler then i'm all for it. It gets pretty warm in the south USA where i live. So every bit helps.

So i'm going to let this AS5 cure some more and if temps don't drop a tad i will slap something else on it that all the kids are using now days.

Anyway thanks for the time and insight into this. Think i found me a permanent home at Overclockers. I see things alot clearer now on this topic, still some things further to learn but i feel like i'm on the right track now.

If you have any more articles on this topic, point me the way. I'm all for learning how to do things the RIGHT way. Thanks again wingman99!

 

[Juggley]

Well i observed something new and interesting on this motherboard. I decided to reflash the bios through Qflash using a usb drive because i was wondering why my idle voltages were not going into C6/C7 states even though had i them enabled in the bios. Anyway voltages would only idle at 0.0840v(C3) and were not dropping super low like they should based on what i read about C6/C7. My power supply is compatible with C6/C7 after looking into it on Corsairs site. I previously was using Windows @BioS to update the bios but will not be doing that anymore because when i did it through Qflash, C6 and C7 is working and my whole system feels more responsive especially when going to sleep mode and waking the PC out of sleep mode.

So word of caution for Gigabyte z170 users . Skip @BioS utility even though it is convenient, just use Qflash. No more lazy flashes for me!

 

[trents]

I only use Windows-based bios flash tools when I have no other choice. Many OEM mass computer manufacturers do not provide flash options outside of Windows, however.

 

[Juggley]

I only use Windows-based bios flash tools when I have no other choice. Many OEM mass computer manufacturers do not provide flash options outside of Windows, however.

Yea i mean if you have no choice then the choice is obvious hehe. I always typically used Windows based flashing tools for last 8 years or so. I remember a time when using Windows based flashing tools were VERY risky compared to what we got now. So now i'm doing it the right and old fashioned way now. no more shortcuts unless i have no choice like you stated.

Something was messed up with flashing in Windows with my motherboard causing C6 and C7 to not work and i even reflashed in Windows to see if it would fix it but only flashing through Qflash and USB cleared up my problem. Figured i'd share my experience in hope that it may help someone else. I'm repeating myself now hehe.

Also swapped out my Arctic Silver 5 for IC Diamond and my temps dropped 8c on load. i know IC Diamond is abrasive but oh well i plan on keeping the system until it quits or i get something new, so no loss to me. The stuff really does work though amazingly. i was skeptical to say the least. Thanks for the reply.