good budget mobo to pair with amd fx-4100?

[Aldakoopa]

is turbo boost on by default? or is it a feature that is turned on manually to overclock?

Yes, turbo is on by default, and you should turn it off in the BIOS before you overclock.

 

[Stealth3si]

Why?

 

[Aldakoopa]

Turbo mode disables half the cores, and raises the multiplier and voltage on the remaining half. In the case of the FX-4100, it disables one module to cut it down to two cores, raises the multiplier from 18 to 19 to achieve 3.8GHz, and raises the voltage to 1.32 or 1.33 volts (Which in my opinion in unnecessary anyway because my processor can do 4GHz on all four cores at stock 1.25V stable). Obviously it's easy to overclock all 4 cores past the 3.8GHz/2 core turbo mode.

AMD OverDrive allows you to change the multiplier and voltage of the turbo mode, but it always suggests to turn turbo mode off when overclocking. I believe this is because of stability issues you might encounter when it activates turbo, which won't be apparent with your non-turbo overclock.

 

[Stealth3si]

In the case of the FX-4100, it disables one module to cut it down to two cores, raises the multiplier from 18 to 19 to achieve 3.8GHz, and raises the voltage to 1.32 or 1.33 volts (Which in my opinion in unnecessary anyway because my processor can do 4GHz on all four cores at stock 1.25V stable). Obviously it's easy to overclock all 4 cores past the 3.8GHz/2 core turbo mode.

what about 960T?

 

[Aldakoopa]

what about 960T?

As far as I can tell, it doesn't have a turbo mode.

 

[Stealth3si]

As far as I can tell, it doesn't have a turbo mode.

i mean is it 'fake' quad core like the FX 4100?

 

[Aldakoopa]

i mean is it 'fake' quad core like the FX 4100?

I personally wouldn't call the FX-4100 "fake", but no, the 960T isn't "fake".

 

[Buddywh]

...
what is a good budget one?
...

Don't know if you settled on one but I saw some discussion of M5a88-m vs. M5a88-V. there is a big difference beyond features: the M5a88-m is an M-ATX form factor. Kinda important if you have and like a microATX case, as I did and do.

I needed mATX and i have a preference for ASUS, it was budget and decent PhenomII's were/are no longer in the channel so what do ya do for an FX-4100?
'Budget' being the watchword, M5a88-M it was.

My experience so far says it's a very decent board, at face value, with all the needed features to keep it relevant in the near future: 6GB SATA, USB3, GB ethernet with IPv6 support, HD audio on-board. Who cares about the onboard video: I paired it with a GByte HD6670 for those few 3d gaming forays I enjoy.

And it's ASUS, so it's rock solid and as far as 'face value' goes it shows, but we want more than that so we 'custom tune' it. OK just say it: overclock the snot out of everything. That's where this board's weaknesses start to show (duhh).

I can't make it stop throttling! Turn off all the CnQ, C1e, C6, everthing I can find and it still cuts back when OCCT fires up the cores. From what I can tell this FX throttling is controllable with newer BIOS's on less- budgety boards. I don't know if it's true on their somewhat more overclocker-friendly M5a88-V-EVO but I wish they would here too. It's very aggravating to think ASUS would abandon this board, if they are, just as the community is realizing that what makes FX's shine is to exploit latent core speed headroom.

My only choice is to bump HTRef: I'm at 260 now. with a mult of 17.5 it throttles back and forth to mult of 16.5 but runs OCCT, medium data set, stable and this on a stock PhenomII cooler I got. Gets warm (64C/58C on cores), but I'm good with it just for the stress tests. It stays at 4.6G rock stable and bearable temps (low-40's core) running 3d demos (3dMark11) hours on end so I'm content with it as a 24/7 for what I do with it... which isn't running power viruses like OCCT or Prime95.

But my prob is this: I have no idea what voltages are really doing! Everything is telling me something different and NOTHING agrees with what the BIOS says! I set it up with a very modest CPU core over-volt to 1.375 but CPU-z tells me it's like 1.48! I honestly think the BIOS is just plain wrong. GROTESQUELY, and very dangerously, understating actual voltage to the CPU.

But what do I know I am OC'g newbie, and this is my first post here so...

I'm hoping someone has suggestions: have others tried this board and found the voltage readouts to be flaky?

Could this be a powersupply issue, realisticaly? I have a very good, if old, Antec True Power. It's 330w rating is obviously short of recommendations, but the busses (12v and 3.3v most noteably) are staying very stable as the load increases with just very tiny sag in hundredths of a volt. to help keep things stable I've increased VDDa to 2.6 volts from BIOS stock 2.5; I heard that helps with VRM headroom.

Any suggestions from smart folks? If nothing else, I would just like to know if I'm doing OK with my overclock to 4.6G on a stock PhenomII cooler!

 

[Aldakoopa]

Don't know if you settled on one but I saw some discussion of M5a88-m vs. M5a88-V. there is a big difference beyond features: the M5a88-m is an M-ATX form factor. Kinda important if you have and like a microATX case, as I did and do.

I needed mATX and i have a preference for ASUS, it was budget and decent PhenomII's were/are no longer in the channel so what do ya do for an FX-4100?
'Budget' being the watchword, M5a88-M it was.

My experience so far says it's a very decent board, at face value, with all the needed features to keep it relevant in the near future: 6GB SATA, USB3, GB ethernet with IPv6 support, HD audio on-board. Who cares about the onboard video: I paired it with a GByte HD6670 for those few 3d gaming forays I enjoy.

And it's ASUS, so it's rock solid and as far as 'face value' goes it shows, but we want more than that so we 'custom tune' it. OK just say it: overclock the snot out of everything. That's where this board's weaknesses start to show (duhh).

I can't make it stop throttling! Turn off all the CnQ, C1e, C6, everthing I can find and it still cuts back when OCCT fires up the cores. From what I can tell this FX throttling is controllable with newer BIOS's on less- budgety boards. I don't know if it's true on their somewhat more overclocker-friendly M5a88-V-EVO but I wish they would here too. It's very aggravating to think ASUS would abandon this board, if they are, just as the community is realizing that what makes FX's shine is to exploit latent core speed headroom.

My only choice is to bump HTRef: I'm at 260 now. with a mult of 17.5 it throttles back and forth to mult of 16.5 but runs OCCT, medium data set, stable and this on a stock PhenomII cooler I got. Gets warm (64C/58C on cores), but I'm good with it just for the stress tests. It stays at 4.6G rock stable and bearable temps (low-40's core) running 3d demos (3dMark11) hours on end so I'm content with it as a 24/7 for what I do with it... which isn't running power viruses like OCCT or Prime95.

But my prob is this: I have no idea what voltages are really doing! Everything is telling me something different and NOTHING agrees with what the BIOS says! I set it up with a very modest CPU core over-volt to 1.375 but CPU-z tells me it's like 1.48! I honestly think the BIOS is just plain wrong. GROTESQUELY, and very dangerously, understating actual voltage to the CPU.

But what do I know I am OC'g newbie, and this is my first post here so...

I'm hoping someone has suggestions: have others tried this board and found the voltage readouts to be flaky?

Could this be a power supply issue, realistically? I have a very good, if old, Antec True Power. It's 330w rating is obviously short of recommendations, but the busses (12v and 3.3v most noteably) are staying very stable as the load increases with just very tiny sag in hundredths of a volt. to help keep things stable I've increased VDDa to 2.6 volts from BIOS stock 2.5; I heard that helps with VRM headroom.

Any suggestions from smart folks? If nothing else, I would just like to know if I'm doing OK with my overclock to 4.6G on a stock PhenomII cooler!

Read this thread for FX throttling issues. There's a nice fix posted somewhere near the end. You have to download the fix, set up a .BAT file for it and drop it in your startup folder, and it eliminates the throttling issues. The voltage issue I was also having a problem with. Even at stock, mine was reading 1.32V, and when I tried to correct it in AMD OverDrive and I ended up with 1.44V I changed it in the BIOS (and actually undervolted) and then it actually stayed where I wanted it. Just to make sure you're adjusting it right though, you have to set your CPU/NB is set to MANUAL and not OFFSET, and then you can adjust your voltage. Link to my embarrassingly noobish thread about it.

 

[caddi daddi]

i have to agree with everything these guys have said, if you use asus ai suite use it to find your setup then make the changes in the bios, then delete ai suite, you will find overdrive only good for a monitor and a very buggy software.

delete overdrive also, delete it in add remove programs and the in programs x86 delete the folders.

 

[Buddywh]

Read this thread for FX throttling issues. There's a nice fix posted somewhere near the end. You have to download the fix, set up a .BAT file for it and drop it in your startup folder, and it eliminates the throttling issues. The voltage issue I was also having a problem with. Even at stock, mine was reading 1.32V, and when I tried to correct it in AMD OverDrive and I ended up with 1.44V I changed it in the BIOS (and actually undervolted) and then it actually stayed where I wanted it. Just to make sure you're adjusting it right though, you have to set your CPU/NB is set to MANUAL and not OFFSET, and then you can adjust your voltage. Link to my embarrassingly noobish thread about it.

Wow! that li'l utility worked miracles... I got my machine under MY control, FINALLY!

Almost... voltage is still funny. I understood your problem, went through the same things. The reading also isn't real-time; I have to F10 the changes then reboot and re-enter BIOS screen to verify the voltage is what I wanted it to be. A hassle.

I am using offset to adjust voltages. CPUz still disagrees (a lot) with what I set in BIOS which is lower (a lot). I REALLY want to believe BIOS is the more correct. But... CPUcore voltage in OCCT is INCREASING a little as the test progresses; I used to think it was throttling but that can't be it since the fix is in. Maybe it's load-line calibration?? dunno how it works... but it sounds like something that would fluctuate volts a little as the load gets bigger and VRM's heat up and have to be compensated. I do know that if I disable it a test run will fail almost immediately if I'm way OC'd.

 

[Buddywh]

....Maybe it's load-line calibration?? dunno how it works... but it sounds like something that would fluctuate volts a little...

After thinking about it a bit... I think that's exactly what's happening. Here's my reasoning:

Let's assume the sensor for CPU volts is located somewhere in the VRM section of the MoBo. That's some (known) distance from the die and through a few (known) pins of the socket. That's a lot of I^2R loss that will have to be compensated as current ramps to 23 or 24 amps when the cores work hard. So something will boost voltage at the sense point so that voltage on the die stays at the reasonable 1.4 volts or so I have it set at in the BIOS for a 4.55G overclock.

The MoBo designers can quite easily know the trace and socket interface losses and so can design compensation that should be quite accurate: I suspect that is exactly what load-line calibration option in BIOS does.

Would like one of the smart people to comment on my theory.. it seems rational at the moment but could be missing something!

 

[Aldakoopa]

Load line calibration is what I thought before, but it was giving me a constant voltage even at idle. DO NOT USE CPU OFFSET TO ADJUST VOLTAGE!!! Turn CPU/NB to manual and it will reveal the actual voltage control. It remains hidden if CPU/NB is set to offset.

 

[Buddywh]

Load line calibration is what I thought before, but it was giving me a constant voltage even at idle. DO NOT USE CPU OFFSET TO ADJUST VOLTAGE!!! Turn CPU/NB to manual and it will reveal the actual voltage control. It remains hidden if CPU/NB is set to offset.

Offset is a little strange, but once I understood how it worked I could get results. What made the difference on my M5a88-M, though, was completely disabling loadline calibration and set volts to what I was reading in CPUz. On rebooting CPUz is a little higher than what I set it at, but when I fire up OCCT the voltage drops to pretty much the same! But what is so much better... core temps are 10C cooler!

Major improvement to disable LLC... CPU volts are predictable, and much cooler without sacrificing stability. Can't say everyone will achieve the same results, but it works for me.

I have my FX4100 at 4.53G with temps mid 50s on a PhenomII stock cooler. Indicated volts are 1.46 running OCCT medium data set which sounds high but then consider stock voltage in the PSS for FX4100 at 3.8G is 1.412v, vs 1.35v for 3.6G. 1.46v seems pretty low for 4.5G.

A 3.72 on Cinebench is telling me it's real performance too, I was able to keep memory, CPU/NB and HT speeds up there without driving HT REF through the roof. All cause I could fiddle with mults without throttling!

I'm sure it would do more if I was willing to push it to 1.5+ volts with more capable cooling on the CPU... oh, and somethin' better'n a 10yo 330W PSU might help some too .

All in all this M5a88-M is a worthy budget mATX board. It may lack the modern conveniences, i.e., UEFI BIOS, and is a bit quirky but still, I'm pleased with it!

Thanks a lot for the pointers, Aldakoopa! it all helped a lot!

 

[caddi daddi]

I thought load line clibration and cpu/nb offset covered voltage droop, am I mistaken?

 

[Aldakoopa]

I thought load line clibration and cpu/nb offset covered voltage droop, am I mistaken?

LLC is for covering vdroop, but CPU/NB set to Offset leaves you with CPU Offset or something like that to control voltage. (I'm currently 800 miles away from my computer and motherboard's manual, so I can't double check on what that's called.) As far as I know, it's basically an amount that is to be added to the stock voltage when the processor is at load just so it's not constantly using the voltage you need to keep stable so it will save energy and temps. I couldn't figure out how to get it to work, and it always gave me a voltage higher than I wanted and stayed that way even at idle. I also couldn't undervolt with it, only overvolt. When you set CPU/NB to Manual, you can key in the voltage you want directly, and it's static so it doesn't change between idle or load. However, I'm still using some of the "green" stuff on my processor which drops the voltage and speed at idle when I don't need it anyway, and it's working just fine for me. I still have LLC on, and my voltage is staying right where I want it to.