How can I tell if a UPS Battery Backup is killing off my components?

[Maviryk]

I have a UPS myself.... now I'm tempted to go stick a DMM in it...

Do those UPS have voltage regulation by any chance?

 

[orionlion82]

After a night of charging, brand new APC model 725VA425 (425 Watts):

123.3 V
and
73.2 V battery powered.


Hm....

does it need some sort of load to give proper voltage??
you probably wont get 120V out of it but you should get at least 110 ...73 volts will kill plenty of stuff... just check the minimum input voltage of your PSU and other equipment... from what i understand, even the BEST psu's - like the PcP&C and zippy are only rated to 85 or 90 i think, and thats not even considering other perhipherals that would drag the output voltage down even more.

 

[Gautam]

Thanks for posting here, orionlion. It's good to get input from someone with your level of understanding.

I just don't understand why the input voltage is so important if the max output voltage needed is 12V anyways?

I took voltage with the UPS fully loaded...computer monitor and all hooked up and on. Maybe that's why my readings came out 20V higher than C6's?

I have run for about 20 minutes straight once off the battery backup a few years ago...then again I only use the highest quality power supplies.

 

[c627627]

I'm getting ready call APC, if anyone can measure their UPS voltage please do so and post.

Gautam's and all three of mine, two of which were new on box, had voltage readouts as posted.

I'll post APC's reply.

 

[bchur83]

I have a Cyberpower 1100VA UPS at home. When plugged in it outputs ~121V, on battery, ~118V. Those voltages sound way too low on battery. Anything below 95V would be a brown out condition, and stress the power supplies of electronic equipment.

 

[Yuriman]

I just tested my 2 UPSs. I have a smaller APC 350 ES for my secondary PC and cable modem, router, phone, and stuff. With no load (PC off) it was 119.0v with power on, and ~92v on battery. On my main backup, an APC NS1250, it was 120.4v on house current and 97.5v on battery, with my PC and 21" monitor being powered by it. This has me worried.... I really would like clean power to my stuff all the time. My UPS kicks in 4 or 5 times a week due to voltage drops below 105v, or excessive line noise, but if this is what it's putting out, why even bother?

 

[SavageBasher]

HOLD IT!
and the idea im getting here is that APC or whomever is using cheaper "non-pure-sine-wave" or "modified sine wave" or "square wave" inverters is absolutely unexcusable when talking about computer equipment.
as a matter of fact those inverters are for everything BUT computer equipment!!!

Show me a computer component that runs off of ac. Show me one thing. If you knew anything about computer supply, they are just transformers. Sine, square, or sawtooth, its all getting recified and buffered with caps. Doesn't make a damn difference, as long as it is within voltage range and frequency. It's always dc at the end.... square ac waves are most harsh on incadescent lighting and ac motors.

and for the person who is wondering about the "highest voltage being 12v", the lower the voltage goes, the lower the effeciency. Lower voltage means the power supply has to draw more current, which means more heat losses, and less efficiency. Thats why power supplies opperate at 220/240 are usually a tad more efficient than those running at 120.

 

[c627627]

Just got off the phone with APC, they say they are sending a replacement.

They confirmed the voltages I was getting were low, at first I was told that they would like to see battery powered voltages in the hundreds "but as low as 90's would be OK."

The call was accidentally disconnected, but I was called back, however when I said that I have two other brand new models showing low voltages, I was told that brand new out of the box models may show low voltages in the 70's but the concern is only if they continue showing them after a while.


The multi meter I was using may not be True RMS, does that change things?

 

[SavageBasher]

that multimeter is garbage. it works, but its still junk. I got one off of ebay for like $5 and it died within a year

 

[c627627]

Can anyone recommend a reasonably priced one that won't be used very often?

 

[orionlion82]

Show me a computer component that runs off of ac. Show me one thing. If you knew anything about computer supply, they are just transformers. Sine, square, or sawtooth, its all getting recified and buffered with caps. Doesn't make a damn difference, as long as it is within voltage range and frequency. It's always dc at the end.... square ac waves are most harsh on incadescent lighting and ac motors.

garbage in, garbage out.
its all very simple really. a transformer isnt much more than a coil of wire, and a motor is much the same, with a few magnets thrown in for good luck. lighting and ballasts all more or less have coiled wires in them at some point.
the transformer isnt really the issue here, as i think we both agree. whatever is DOWNSTREAM of the transformer, say all the fun things like hard drives, and processors - sure theyre all getting 12V, but but thats only as long as the power conditioner circut stays on the ball and plays through the ninth inning...
i speak from experience here - ive run plenty of loads off square, and modified square waveform inverters. no AC fans are not happy. no just about any lighting wont be happy, and yes, ive killed a few wall warts and battery rechergers, in addition to some flourescent lighting. ive allso run a computer off these nasty things, and ive never heard a power supply sound more unhappy over what its fed. now dont get me wrong, there might be some industrial and commercial grade PSU's that are made to take square and modified square from inverters and large battery banks, but the likelyhood of them not getting a sine wave inverter in the first place is pretty low, considering the investment allready.

 

[Silversinksam]

Dead battery would be the first thought. My question is, why do you need a UPS on your home unit? I've seen so many posts about UPS's destroying eqiupment.

My UPS has saved my system from certain death more times than I have fingers and toes. Living in FL has it's advantages and drawbacks. One downside is we have whicked lightning storms in the summer. In the past couple weeks my UPS saved my system when a close lightning strike hit, the UPS's pop out breaker popped out and the only damage I incurred was a couple lightbulbs throught my house and a printer not hooked up to my APC.

Plus as wreckwriter mentioned, we have flaky power here as well

 

[Gautam]

I'm in the same boat basically.

Which APC unit do you have? Could you provide DMM readings?

 

[c627627]

Yes, could people please post readings if they can.

I'm looking forward to testing the new one they send me but they're sending it UPS ground so it may be next week to know for sure.

Meanwhile, what do you think about their explanation, that new out of the box UPS may show low voltage "initially." Then "after it's used a bit" it's supposed to show voltage in the hundreds.

 

[orionlion82]

Meanwhile, what do you think about their explanation, that new out of the box UPS may show low voltage "initially." Then "after it's used a bit" it's supposed to show voltage in the hundreds.

wheres the little gif with the BS flag?

and true RMS is the way to go for meters. i really hope for everyones sake that thats not the difference between 70-80V and 110-120v considering the non sign wave nature of the topic and how it might read...im saving up for a fluke myself...

ALLSO: if youre going to post your readings -please post weather your meter is true RMS: that might allso help narrow down the issue

 

[c627627]

Apparently it is not.

I will take the readings of the new UPS when it arrives in hopes that it will show high voltage, eliminating the cheap multi meter pictured above as a possible factor.

If I get a low reading with the new UPS, I'll look to buy another multi meter, then go on from there. Suggestions for a good deal for an adequate model are welcome.


As for me helping you, any time:

wheres the little gif with the BS flag?

 

[c627627]

By the way, I didn't want to push the issue of other backups showing low voltage as well because I can always do that later.


Right now, I'm more concerned about what procedures to follow to try to get them to compensate me for damage to my equipment.

I mean, I'm sending them the UPS, what else can I do, other then take the MM readings and claim those as proof this UPS took out my stuff.

 

[orionlion82]

ermm, i would look on ebay for old/used fluke stuff. i happen to know someone who told me about a model no longer sold that was available there now and then, and ill try to ask him tomarrow at work what model it was, because for some reason, he perferred it over all others.
EDIT: if i remember from this morning, it was a fluke model 30 or 32. it seems they are no longer made - but i was told one shouldnt pay more than 60 for one in top condition.

 

[Silversinksam]

I'm in the same boat basically.

Which APC unit do you have? Could you provide DMM readings?

Gautam, I have three APC Back-UPS CS 500

I like this model because I can get replacement batteries for under $20 shipped. I'll try to get some voltage readings later as a neighbor borrowed my Volt meter. (He has my tape measure as well, damn neighbors that never return tool....)

 

[Gautam]

Hrmm thanks...some readings from that unit could be very interesting. Looking at their website, the CS line seems geared towards businesses, and has a much higher street price than the ES line (which C6 and I have).

They must be using superior components in the CS line. These days, it seems like every manufacturer has a "value" or budget line, so you can never trust a brand on name alone.