SOLVED Just another person having problems OCing FX 4100

[KissaXD]

Hi there,

I signed up here because you people seem more fit to help me with my problem then the guys over at the other forum who tell me not to OC my CPU while browsing a forum about overclocking....

So here's my problem:

I tried to OC my FX 4100, but to be quite fair, I'm a total noob at this and kinda chicken out when my system starts herpaderping.

Anyways, I tried an OC of 4.0 and it's running more or less stable. I've had one BSOD after which I upped the voltage from 1.4125 to 1.4250. I haven't done any real stress testing. I've tried Prime95, but that program is kind of complicated + it totally failed at a 1 minute custom test. I did however do a lot of IntelBurnTests. I tried a couple of runs on Very High settings and my systems passes them perfectly. Did another one of about half an hour and this one also passed without fail.

So I kind of need a guiding hand to fine tune my system, with minimal (preferably no) risk of blowing it up.

Another problem I seem to be having is that my CPU throttles back to 3.3 gHz within 1 minute of stress testing. The only way to solve this problem is to enable and disable turbo boost in AMD Overdrive each time I turn on my computer, which annoys the crap out of me so I'm looking for a more permanent solution.

My system specs are made up of:

CASE: NZXT Phantom
MOBO: AsRock 970 Extreme4
CPU: AMD FX 4100
CPU COOLER: Mugen Scythe (heatsink + 2 fans, one sucking air, the other exhausting)
RAM: 16 GB DDR3 1.333 mHz (or at least it should be)
GPU: Ati Radeon HD 6850
PSU: Corsair TX650
2 hard discs: 1 SSD for my OS and programs and 1 HDD for games, downloads, backup, ...
I also have a total of 5 case fans: 2 large ones, 3 small ones (no medium sized fans). the 2 large ones are at the top with 1 sucking in air, the other exhausting air. I also used to have a large one at the side, but had to remove that to clear space for the CPU cooler...

I believe that's all the relevant information.


(My apologies if the next part bugs you out, but I don't seem to be finding the spoiler tags)
I also have a couple of CPU-Z screens:

And this is a screencap from the Hardware Info program, however, temperatures aren't accurate as I only just ran a quick stress tests to get the voltages as I can assure you that the system gets cooled adequately (CPU cores stabilize around 36.5-37°C and the overall CPU stabilizes around 46°C as seen after a 30 minute stress test)

I really hope you guys can help me with this. I've been reading a lot about it on the internet, but I'm still touching around in the dark and of course there is the chickening out...

So please save this soul from damnation and my CPU from me (aka going BOOM!)

PS: if I don't answer in a while that's because it's 3:45 am and I'm actually going to bed.

 

[trents]

Why do you have your memory frequency set so low. The CPU-z tab "Memory" shows that your memory frequency is only 800 mhz while your memory is rated for 1600 mhz (see CPU-z tab "SPD"). What method are you overclocking with? You mention using AMDOverdrive but have you tried manipulating the manual bios settings (much preferred)? Prime95 is not that much different than the Intel Burn test. Use the Prime95 "blend" option.

 

[KissaXD]

I'm still awake so i figured I'd do a quick forum check.

To be honest, I didn't touch the ram setting though I did read somewhere that when it says 800 mhz in cpu-z, that you shoul multiply it by 2 because the reading is just weird like that.

Also, I don't use AMD Overdrive to oc my cpu, I just use it to prevent throttling. I oc by going into uefi and doing it manually. I don't trust manipulations like this to be made anywhere other than bios/uefi

 

[I.M.O.G.]

You'll want to increase the memory multiplier in BIOS, its running about half the speed its rated for.

You just want to use the blend option in prime95 to get an idea of stability and eliminate BSODs.

to the forums.

 

[KissaXD]

Okay, but I find it kind of strange that I'd only get half the speed on my ram even though I never touched the stock settings for that... I don't think it's normal that these things underperform out of the box. Or does this happen more often?

Edit: I just found this (http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/255494-12-running-half-speed-help - i hope it's alright that I've pasted this here as it was a pain to accomplish with my galaxy s3). This should apply for me, no?

 

[I.M.O.G.]

Yup seems odd. Usually it'd be set on Auto and the RAM would be set to the appropriate speed by the motherboard according to serial presence detect (SPD). But you might have bumped a setting in BIOS, and its easy to check.

You'll find the setting for it in UEFI on the OC Tweaker page. It's labeled DRAM Frequency, and it should be at Auto normally - if its already at auto, I would suggest setting it manually since Auto isn't giving you the right speed.

 

[KissaXD]

I know for a fact that I didn't touch that option, lol, so it should still be on auto. Can't check it now though as my computer's not on atm.

Then again, could it cause instability? Because if it doesn't, I'd rather not touch it... I mean, I never noticed anything odd about my computer's speed and my computer's fast enough (As fast as it should be actually). I'm actually only overclocking my cpu to prevent it from being at full load while I livestream, because that was the case before the oc. Although I do suspect it was throttling to 3.3 even then.

But I will still take a look at it when I wake up.

Ps: thanks for the welcome

 

[I.M.O.G.]

Probably can't cause instability, but that is REALLY low and it would definitely bottleneck system performance. Let us know what you find when you check it.

 

[KissaXD]

So I checked the uefi for the RAM, and as I said, everything is just the way it's supposed to be: on auto.

I also found this thread right on this forum stating exactly the same as the other link I provided: http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=699416

I'd like to remind you that I'm running 16GB (4x4gb, dual channel) Corsair Vengeance DDR3 memory. So after reading both threads I can conclude that my memory should be running like this. So I'm going to leave it like that.

Thanks for pointing it out as a possible malfunction though

 

[RGone]

My CPUz reads 400Mhz...DDR3 800 ram speed?

CML16GX3M4A1600C9
Vengeance® Low Profile — 16GB Dual Channel DDR3 Memory Kit (CML16GX3M4A1600C9)
http://www.corsair.com/vengeance-lo...hannel-ddr3-memory-kit-cml16gx3m4a1600c9.html
IF you look your ram up at the Corsair RamSite using the link above to look up your specific ram by part number and then click on the link slightly down and to the left on the page it says "Tech Specs" just below "Overview" and just above "Videos", you will see the specs for that ram as outlined by Corsair.

Warranty > Lifetime
Size > 16GB Kit (4 x 4GB)
Performance Profile > XMP
Fan Included > No
Heat Spreader > Vengeance
Memory Configuration > Dual Channel
Memory Type > DDR3
Package - Memory Pin > 240
Package - Memory Format > DIMM
Tested Voltage > 1.5
SPD Voltage > 1.5
Speed Rating > PC3-12800 (1600MHz)
SPD Speed > 1333MHz
Tested Speed > 1600Mhz
Tested Latency > 9-9-9-24
SPD Latency > 9-9-9-24

You will notice the SPD spec which says SPD Speed > 1333MHz. I should see 667 in the CPUz Memory Tab is my ram was AUTO detected correctly?

CPUz Memory Tab and Dram Frequency. From forums around the net.

Q. >The RAM I own (OCZ Gold) is advertised to run at 1600mhz w/ 8-8-8-24 timings. I have set the RAM to 1600mhz in BIOS, but when I look the DRAM Frequency in CPU-Z it shows it only running at 800mhz.

A. > in CPU-Z, you have to times your RAM frequency by two to get the actual speed. It is taking into account the multiplier, so it only shows it as half.

Q. > In CPU-Z it says my DRAM is 480MHz

A. > CPU-Z reports memory frequency, not memory clock. For DDR3, multiply mem freq X 2 to get mem clock.

Q. > The windows booted fine, but the CPU-Z reports the DRAM Frequency as 800 MHz. Any idea why its cut in half? EVEREST reports the same thing.

A. > DDR stands for Double Data Rate. SO any DDR3 (and DDR2) rating is double the actual speed. So ram running 800MHz is running DDR3 1600. Notice the ram specs only say DDR3 1600 without MHz at the end.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericeod
DDR stands for Double Data Rate. SO any DDR3 (and DDR2) rating is double the actual speed. So ram running 800MHz is running DDR3 1600. Notice the ram specs only say DDR3 1600 without MHz at the end.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 7hm
Dram is calculated by taking mem speed in MHz, and multiplying it by 2.

I can find thousands more such posts on the net where users post to a forum saying that CPUz Memory Tab and Dram Frequency is not reading their DDR Ram speed correctly. You MUST multiply the Dram Frequency number by 2 to get the DDR rated speed of the ram.

YOUR CPUz memory tab shows your ram is currently running at DDR3 800 speed because it shows your Dram Frequency at 400.0Mhz and we now should know we need to multiply that 400.0Mhz by 2 to get the real rated speed of the ram. So 2 x 400Mhz equals DDR3 800 speed for your ram. Way way slower than any of the Jedec Spec speeds possible according to CPUz SPD tab.

By the way what is SPD? Serial presence detect (SPD) refers to a standardized method to access information about a computer memory module. And this information about the memory stick contained in the SPD is hopefully recognized correctly by the bios and the bios adjust the ram speed and timings correctly. Sometimes the motherboard bios does NOT read the SPD correctly and when the Ram settings are all in AUTO mode the ram will not be correctly adjusted by the motherboard. AUTO ram setting is not accurate everytime.

According to the Corsair specs they say your ram should be AUTO detected at DDR3 1333 and if that had be done correctly by the motherboard the Memory tab of CPUz should be showing 667 (very close to) and then we now know it should be multiplied by 2 to get DDR3 1333 speed and the correct speed if the motherboard were accurately reading the SPD of the ram according to Corsair.

You by sticking with Ram settings of AUTO have ram running at DDR3 800 speed and that is not even shown as a rated speed by the CPUz SPD tables. Your ram running at only DDR3 800 with those tight 6, 6, 6, 15 and 21 timings as shown below the Dram Frequency in CPUz Memory tab, could contribute to instability.

We should now know that the ram settings on AUTO are not accurate and no matter if the misset ram speed and timings are causing your instability, the Ram certainly needs to be manually set to a more correct group of timings.

 

[KissaXD]

CML16GX3M4A1600C9
Vengeance® Low Profile — 16GB Dual Channel DDR3 Memory Kit (CML16GX3M4A1600C9)
http://www.corsair.com/vengeance-lo...hannel-ddr3-memory-kit-cml16gx3m4a1600c9.html
IF you look your ram up at the Corsair RamSite using the link above to look up your specific ram by part number and then click on the link slightly down and to the left on the page it says "Tech Specs" just below "Overview" and just above "Videos", you will see the specs for that ram as outlined by Corsair.

...

I didn't understand a lot of this, but I did have a revelation a few moments ago...

I opened up AMD Overdrive because I knew there were also options and readers for RAM and it is as you guys have been trying to tell me for hours now: Memory frequency is at 400 mhz (*facepalm* I just scrolled back to my own screenshot... I never saw the 400 mhz until now )

So basically my RAM has been running at half speed for at least half a year without causing any problems (I never had a BSOD before the OC with this system, no system hangs/freezes, no restarts, no nothing)

I also have never done any of this before, I really wouldn't know what to do when opening uefi. I'm also scared to fry my system, not only because you're fiddling with voltages that in normal cases you shouldn't be fiddling around with, but also because I guess increasing the RAM speed will obviously increase heat production and one of my RAM sticks is already nearly touching the CPU heat sink... (I'm talking about maybe 1 mm, the CPU cooler is really huge...) That's how firmly everything is packed together in that area.

So IF I do this, I really need someone to basically hold my hand because if I end up frying my system, my husband is going to kill me telling me "I told you so".

Also, I'm sorry for being a pain, lol, but if possible I just don't want to change stock settings if I don't have to (and in my book, this includes touching the RAM). Messing up your installation is one thing and there's a quick fix for that which doesn't involve spending lots of money to get it working again, messing up your hardware however...

I'll take a look into what options I have in UEFI and fiddle around with it for a bit... as long as I don't Exit and save changes I should be good anyway

 

[RGone]

Also, I'm sorry for being a pain, lol, but if possible I just don't want to change stock settings if I don't have to (and in my book, this includes touching the RAM).

That quoted statement does not jive well with this that you have already stated > "I tried to OC my FX 4100". You have already made changes to stock settings when you began to overclock. And doing so and rasing voltages to try and stablize an overclock would be far more 'dangerous' (tongue in cheek) than adjusting the ram to run its' rated speed.

Probably in bios will be a speed setting for the ram. Ram speed, Dram frequency or the like should be there. You may have to take the Ram speed off of AUTO to set a dram speed. You should set to DDR1333 for the sake of hoping the board WILL THEN read the more correct SPD settings from within the Ram itself. DDR 3 1333 is a lot closer to the rated ram speed than DDR3 800 and may well adjust the ram timngs better.

It is possible though that a FULL manual adjustment of the ram will be needed. But no way to determine such as yet. Good luck. By the way, these boards and parts are tougher than we think. The main thing is to not be supplying way more voltage than is needed. Small amounts of overvoltage are seldom any cause for concern. 0.05 on a cpu is not dangerous unless the temps rise dramatically. It is a balance between adding voltage and maintaining low or appropriately low temps.

 

[KissaXD]

So the RAM frequencies are all sorted out now.

My husband didn't want me messing around in there at first, but after a quick peek in his uefi (he has the AsRock 990 Extreme4 and Corsair Dominator memory) he also saw that something was up with my memory as his was set at 1333 mhz.

So now in the memory tab of CPU-Z, my DRAM frequency is at 667 mhz. The best thing about this all? I didn't have to go messing around with the timings myself

So now that we got this out of the way, could someone please help me with the settings for my 4.0 overclock and the throttling it does to 3.3?

I'll probably start a small prime test now to see if my system freezes up like last time, maybe something has changed, let's hope so.


EDIT: So I've just ran Prime for 30 minutes using the 1 minute test as explained by Raxen18 in this thread: http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=615300&page=2

This also confirmed the instability caused by the underclocked RAM as my system froze on the first test a few day ago while running a 1024K FFT length test.

So when I ran Prime about an hour ago, it passed the first test (1024K), but froze during the second test (8K). I increased my cpu voltage from 1.4250 to 1.4375 and ran the test again. This test has been running for 30 minutes after which I manually stopped it since running it in the middle of the day doesn't really make sense.

I did get 1 fatal error on my 4th worker (aka cpu core 4) saying: "FATAL ERROR: Rounding was 0.5, expected less than 0.4", this was about 15 minutes in. My other cores just went on like nothing happened. (it was at a 16K FFT length test)

So is this something I need to fix, or ignore and just run the prime test overnight?

 

[RGone]

Fatal error on my 4th worker (aka cpu core 4) saying: "FATAL ERROR: Any error is an error and should be adjusted for. Probably need to add at least one more notch up of voltage to the cpu and ensure that the temps do not get out of the range of no more than 60c on the CPU Core Temp and no greater than 70c on the CPU Temp as monitored with HWMonitor running on the desktop while P95 runs in Blend mode.

 

[KissaXD]

So I increased the CPU voltage by another 0.0125V, putting it at 1.4500V and ran the 1-minute test again for another 30 minutes. This time there were no errors nor warnings.

I think I feel confident enough to do an overnight blend test tonight. I'll keep you guys posted

 

[RGone]

Okay a suggestion. You have not posted back a picture of HWMonitor so we really do not know what temps you are getting at this point.

But there is a pretty huge difference in only one minute tests for 30 mins and a full-bore run all night on default setting of P95 Blend mode. 1.45 is not high Vcore and suggest you bump up one more notch so that you do not get a failure over the span of that long overnite run. Hate to get to sleep and wake-up having a failure when another small bump of Vcore would put that thing off.

 

[KissaXD]

Okay a suggestion. You have not posted back a picture of HWMonitor so we really do not know what temps you are getting at this point.

But there is a pretty huge difference in only one minute tests for 30 mins and a full-bore run all night on default setting of P95 Blend mode. 1.45 is not high Vcore and suggest you bump up one more notch so that you do not get a failure over the span of that long overnite run. Hate to get to sleep and wake-up having a failure when another small bump of Vcore would put that thing off.

Well I DID make a snapshot of the hardware monitor just in case, however, the temps weren't that different, that's why I decided not to post it unless you guys asked for it:

Also, I am aware that a 30 minute test is nothing compared to a full scale, all-out blend attack, but it does give me a better insight about this whole situation.

I will take into account what you said about "increasing it just a little further", but for now, I will run the blend test tonight with this cpu voltage and see what happens. If I wake up to a frozen computer, I'll know what to do and you can say: "I told you so!"

I also hope I'm not frustrating you like this, but this is just how I tend to do things...

 

[RGone]

As you wish madame. RGone...ster.

 

[trents]

You are using a different hwmonitor than we speak of. Yours doesn't show core temps, just CPU socket temp. Core temps are the most important (as long as they are reasonably accurate). Please download and install this HWMonitor and do another stress test with it as the temp monitor: http://www.cpuid.com/softwares/hwmonitor.html (v. 1.21 setup English, Uncheck the Ask toolbar options during install).

Note: a 20 minute Prime95 blend stress test will show max temps within about 2c of what you will see during a much longer test.

 

[KissaXD]

It actually does show core temps, just look next to cpu 0. It's just the temp of 1 core, but the temp on all cores is the same and I know that because I also have amd overdrive running which shows core temps for all cores.

Also, I have been running a blend test for the last 4 hours now (it's still going) and the core temp hasn't gone higher than 37.9 degrees and the whole cpu hasn't gone higher than 48 degrees, so I'm good.

Oh and Rgone, you can tell me ''I told you so!''