Raedon Memory for Ryzen?

[Alaric]

I think the starting point for DDR4 is 2133 MHz, and above that it's "overclocked". That was my understanding, anyway.

 

[wingman99]

I've always understood that to mean overclocked from the board's point of reference, not from the RAM's perspective. I could be wrong but it seems to me that different motherboards will insert that "(O.C.)" note at different frequencies.

Besides, it doesn't stack up to what you said earlier in post #17 where you state that "Ram sold at higher than 2133 is overclocked." In the gigabyte motherboard example you give there are two steps after 2133 that don't have "(O.C.)."

For instance: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813132927

It's a Z270 board but even declares DDR4 2133 to be an "O.C." frequency.

Here's another: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157746 that doesn't use append the "O.C." note until you get to 2800.

When I hear the term "overclock" I think of pushing something faster than the speed it was sold to run at.

The motherboard manufactures say when you call them with the ram not running at the rated speed it is because your overclocking the memory. Could be the memory not running at the tested speed, or IMC not able to overclock well or motherboard timings don't work on different brands or sets of memory. So that is 3 ways to loose memory overclocking reliability over stock.

Sky lake is up to 2133 stock
kaby lake is up to 2400 stock
Ryzen is up to 2667 stock

Intel Memory Specifications https://ark.intel.com/products/97129/Intel-Core-i7-7700K-Processor-8M-Cache-up-to-4_50-GHz

 

[trents]

The motherboard manufactures say when you call them with the ram not running at the rated speed it is because your overclocking the memory. Could be the memory not running at the tested speed, or IMC not able to overclock well or motherboard timings don't work on different brands or sets of memory. So that is 3 ways to loose memory overclocking reliability over stock.

Sky lake is up to 2133 stock
kaby lake is up to 2400 stock
Ryzen is up to 2667 stock

Intel Memory Specifications https://ark.intel.com/products/97129/Intel-Core-i7-7700K-Processor-8M-Cache-up-to-4_50-GHz

So this would be with respect to the CPU memory controller rating. But even that seems to be inconsistently applied as here's a screenie for a motherboard that indicates even 2133 mhz, what you say is to be is supposed to be the baseline non "O.C." standard for Sky Lake, is declared to be an O.C. frequency.

 

[wingman99]

So this would be with respect to the CPU memory controller rating. But even that seems to be inconsistently applied as here's a screenie for a motherboard that indicates even 2133 mhz, what you say is to be is supposed to be the baseline non "O.C." standard for Sky Lake, is declared to be an O.C. frequency.

Don't go by what I say phone Intel: 1-916-377-7000 and ASUS to see that is a misprint 1-510-739-3777.

ASUS ROG Crosshair VI Hero
Even when I could get RAM to work, many times I could not get it to complete the SiSoft RAM bandwidth test. This is the only AM4 motherboard I have had this issue with. If I could get a set of RAM to complete this test 5 out of 20 times I would be lucky. Early on, I had sticks of RAM that would do 3200MHz no problem. Then with a UEFI or AGESA change and those sticks would no longer work at 3200. Some sticks would work at nothing but 2133 sometimes. With some DIMMs it will not POST at all. The whole thing has been a mess.
https://www.hardocp.com/article/2017/06/04/asus_rog_crosshair_vi_hero_ryzen_motherboard_review/7TE]

 

[trents]

Don't go by what I say phone Intel: 1-916-377-7000 and ASUS to see that is a misprint 1-510-739-3777.

ASUS ROG Crosshair VI Hero
Even when I could get RAM to work, many times I could not get it to complete the SiSoft RAM bandwidth test. This is the only AM4 motherboard I have had this issue with. If I could get a set of RAM to complete this test 5 out of 20 times I would be lucky. Early on, I had sticks of RAM that would do 3200MHz no problem. Then with a UEFI or AGESA change and those sticks would no longer work at 3200. Some sticks would work at nothing but 2133 sometimes. With some DIMMs it will not POST at all. The whole thing has been a mess.
https://www.hardocp.com/article/2017/06/04/asus_rog_crosshair_vi_hero_ryzen_motherboard_review/7TE]

The bottom line. Although it does seem that this could be a problem with that particular motherboard because a lot of people are having no problem with Ryzen on other boards, at least with lower speed RAM.

 

[bassnut]

I can't say my first couple days with RYZEN have been great, part of my issues was in trying to get windows 7 to work for 24/7 use. I think it can be done but I didn't / don't have the time or patience for that right now. I can tell you from running a few BD Disks through it today I am doubling my FSP processing time from FX averaging over 175 FPS compareed to 80 or 90 FPS. Faster ram makes a big difference to ...... about 30+ FPS. Depending what your plans are for the rig getting fast ram is a plus.

 

[Mr.Scott]

I can't say my first couple days with RYZEN have been great, part of my issues was in trying to get windows 7 to work for 24/7 use. I think it can be done but I didn't / don't have the time or patience for that right now.

I have a W7U iso already set up for Ryzen with proper drivers slipstreamed. PM me and I'll link you to my OneDrive. It's plug and play.

 

[Woomack]

So this would be with respect to the CPU memory controller rating. But even that seems to be inconsistently applied as here's a screenie for a motherboard that indicates even 2133 mhz, what you say is to be is supposed to be the baseline non "O.C." standard for Sky Lake, is declared to be an O.C. frequency.

I thought it's a mistake on the newegg but really, even asus has that on their website. It's also mistake and you can find it in MIX Hero tab but not in others. 2133-2400 is standard frequency for Intel SL and KL, depends on IMC. Mistakes on manufacturer websites are common and stores are only copy/paste everything to save time.
JEDEC standard is higher. I don't know if in mass production are 2666 modules but 2400 were almost since the DDR4 premiere. JEDEC had empty spots in their specification for anything above 2666 and it will be added in time.

Almost all DDR4 in mass production are 2133-2400. Server IC are also 1866.
- Memory manufacturers are not declaring overclocked frequency. Memory manufacturers are declaring stable frequency tested by them in their conditions on motherboards which they had a chance to test while releasing said memory kits
- Motherboard manufacturers are declaring official memory speed based on chipset specification and are adding OC frequencies based on their internal tests performed on memory which they had at the time of testing motherboards
- CPU/IMC manufacturers are specifying memory frequency based on internal tests and official memory specification made by JEDEC

So AMD had to test memory at 2666 and it's compatible with basic specification for DDR4-2666 ( CL18 or something ) but it doesn't mean it's working fully stable with every memory kit because most memory kits above 2400 have timing tables different than JEDEC and new platforms can have different timing range what we see on ryzen and high frequency memory. Even on Intel some memory kits won't boot above CL20 because it's above their timing limits. The same is with sub timings. There is some range for timings and not all platforms are using all the same sub timings.

AMD and intel don't have a problem with all memory brands running DDR4 2133 stock, there built for it. AMD and Intel have trouble overclocking memory.

Actually problem have motherboard manufacturers who are trying to provide products working above declared speed. That's why it's "OC" frequency and it's not recommended. Most memory manufacturers are releasing 3600+ memory kits tested only on 3-5 motherboards. That's 3-5 out of maybe 150 motherboards available in stores. Intel or AMD have nothing to do with anything above their specification.

All Z170/270 motherboards are supporting at least DDR4-3200 and most have info that anything above 3200 is not guaranteed but still can be supported depends on IMC and memory quality. The same has nearly every brand in their specification. Simply there are no issues with overclocking or memory support if memory manufacturers won't make something stupid with timings. There were almost no issues with any memory brand since DDR4 premiere except Gigabyte+Corsair issue and memory frequency limits on Gigabyte motherboards which were caused by BIOS. Every other brand was working with memory at least up to 3200 on every memory kit designed for that except some kits from mentioned Corsair.
AMD is not controling memory manufacturers. AMD is not even working with any manufacturers at the level they should so they could provide good quality final product for end-users. Premiere of Ryzen is showing that there was no memory or motherboard brand which was sure what to expect. Most my contacts said that they don't have ready products because AMD didn't provide any data or early samples for tests. The same said many other manufacturers. Simply all issues with hardware compatibility on Ryzen platform are AMD fault.

AMD branded kits were made by Patriot as it was already said in this thread. As I remember they were using only early IC even though new IC was already on the market. It was because FX IMC had problems with high density IC. In general it's almost the same as during DDR2 era when there were OCZ NVIDIA SLI memory kits. Similar advantage for users

 

[trents]

Lots of good information there and this discussion has really helped me understand better how all these factors fit together. Thanks.

Seems to kind of boil down to what works in actual practice rather than what should work based on specs.

 

[Bluefalcon13]

To be fair, my sticker clad cheap ram works at JDEC 2133. I should have bought a better set since I wanted faster, something on the QVL list. I knew better, I just chose to be cheap. Maybe the updated microcode will help, maybe not. We shall see.